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Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Auto Trans and Triple Disc Converters
- Thread starter blkdragon
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mjoppie said:
Yep, thats what I would do.
Give Dave a call, he is a straight shooter.
Just remember, with any single the higher you go in HP the lower the stall is needed to keep the lock up clutch from failing.
Just for fun.
Lets take 1000 rwhp.
How low of a stall do you need to hold that power with a single disk??
The power curve will be similiar to the CTD, with a similiar torque curve.
a 89% works great until about 500hp+
I ran one to 670 hp then when the stock input shaft finally gave up I went with a 91, there is not a hole lot of difference between the two but some... ... 200 rpm or so!
I can give you more input in a few days when i get it back running again but now with more off idle help via a Camshaft.
Jim
I ran one to 670 hp then when the stock input shaft finally gave up I went with a 91, there is not a hole lot of difference between the two but some... ... 200 rpm or so!
I can give you more input in a few days when i get it back running again but now with more off idle help via a Camshaft.
Jim
Jim Fulmer said:
How many miles did you put on the 89%? Were all of those miles above 450HP??
ok, i talked to dave for a bit today and i understand a whole lot more about this subject now. a converter is only xx% efficient at a certian hp and rpm. heres how he explained it to me a 300hp truck at 70 mph when the converter locks there is a 200rpm drop that converter is only 92% but that same converter at idle is 0% so theres not really a givin number for efficiency is there. by all you guys claiming xx% is there a givin standard as to which these are measured at? because surely with my equation a converter can be two different numbers in the same transmission at different speeds. man i think im gettin in over my head with this transmission stuff. 
on that same note my stock converter was less than 75% 
very confused and coming around :-laf
matt
on that same note my stock converter was less than 75% very confused and coming around :-laf
matt
mjoppie:
Like you, I am no "expert" on these Dodge CTD transmissions! I understand
just about enough to get me in trouble if you know what I mean!
I am running the ATS Triplelok in both my trucks listed below. You stated
you have a Goerend Single Disc which IMO, is a good choice. Dave is a very
knowledgeable guy and his products seem to hold up very well. But, you asked in your earlier post; "does one live longer than the other?"
I can tell you that before going with the ATS TripleLok I had a single disc "Pro-Torque" aftermarket converter. That TC was nowhere near the holding capacity of an ATS, Goerend, DTT or Suncoast. But, that TC held
on my 96' 12 valve for 65,000 miles. At the time my truck was putting down about 400 RWHP. It never failed me and was in good shape when I took it out to install the ATS.
Now to the TripleLok ATS. The ATS Transmission in my 96' has a little
over 90,000 miles on it. About two weeks ago, I took the "Generation 1 ATS
TripleLok" out and had ATS cut it open to "upgrade" my early "Gen 1 ATS"
to their newer ATS TripleLok with the newer "Mixed Flow" Stator. According
to Clint at ATS, their newer stator has a better torque multiplication than my
earlier "Gen 1" stator. My old 90,000 mile TripleLok converter looked great
inside!! Much better than you would think with that kind of mileage. I run
my truck hard and anybody that knows me here will tell you that. I tow
heavy in the mountains throughout N. C. , Va. , and W. Va. , I drag race the
truck on a regular basis and have lost count how much street and highway
racing I have done! The engine was recently completely rebuilt by
Scheid Diesel and has all the "bells and whistles" including twin turbos.
My best dyno to date has been 674 H. P. (uncorrected). I have ran the
truck with the new engine and older ATS TC for about 10,000 miles.
My point to all this?? IMO, I do believe that the ATS TripleLok will live
longer than a single disc will. This is not meant to offend any of the
other aftermarket companies, only my personal experience and
observations. Hope this has helped you some. Sorry about the
length of my reply.
--------
John_P
Like you, I am no "expert" on these Dodge CTD transmissions! I understand
just about enough to get me in trouble if you know what I mean!
I am running the ATS Triplelok in both my trucks listed below. You stated
you have a Goerend Single Disc which IMO, is a good choice. Dave is a very
knowledgeable guy and his products seem to hold up very well. But, you asked in your earlier post; "does one live longer than the other?"
I can tell you that before going with the ATS TripleLok I had a single disc "Pro-Torque" aftermarket converter. That TC was nowhere near the holding capacity of an ATS, Goerend, DTT or Suncoast. But, that TC held
on my 96' 12 valve for 65,000 miles. At the time my truck was putting down about 400 RWHP. It never failed me and was in good shape when I took it out to install the ATS.
Now to the TripleLok ATS. The ATS Transmission in my 96' has a little
over 90,000 miles on it. About two weeks ago, I took the "Generation 1 ATS
TripleLok" out and had ATS cut it open to "upgrade" my early "Gen 1 ATS"
to their newer ATS TripleLok with the newer "Mixed Flow" Stator. According
to Clint at ATS, their newer stator has a better torque multiplication than my
earlier "Gen 1" stator. My old 90,000 mile TripleLok converter looked great
inside!! Much better than you would think with that kind of mileage. I run
my truck hard and anybody that knows me here will tell you that. I tow
heavy in the mountains throughout N. C. , Va. , and W. Va. , I drag race the
truck on a regular basis and have lost count how much street and highway
racing I have done!
The engine was recently completely rebuilt byScheid Diesel and has all the "bells and whistles" including twin turbos.
My best dyno to date has been 674 H. P. (uncorrected). I have ran the
truck with the new engine and older ATS TC for about 10,000 miles.
My point to all this?? IMO, I do believe that the ATS TripleLok will live
longer than a single disc will. This is not meant to offend any of the
other aftermarket companies, only my personal experience and
observations. Hope this has helped you some. Sorry about the
length of my reply.
--------
John_P
Last edited:
Wow!
This has turned into a long thread! Just to let everyone know (from page one) Got my trans back from the shop, and it appears to be fixed.
A few things I have learned:
Just because a guy say he knows about CTD transmissions, does not mean he does. I thought I was in good hands right up until I brought it back the second time, and my trans is on the table apart, and he says "anything over 22 psi of boost is too much for any automatic".
Get your trans from a experienced builder.
All Torque converters are not equal. I have not read "every" post in this thread, but from what I can tell, many references are made to drag racing or sled pulling. I would bet that 95% of will never do either. I use my truck to tow. I seldom even go through the trouble of warming it up unless it is pulling something.
With this local guys "Billet, HD converter" I would mash the pedal while pulling a 10,000# load, and it would just sit there, SCREAMING as it started to move. In less than 2 seconds I am up to 2600 rpm or more. I am know expect, but I think that is about where I start to de- fuel. I am pretty sure I am well above where the 12 valve engine is making its most power and torque, at least it feels that way.
In addition, when it goes into lock up, that 1000 rpm drop in a split second feels like it is going to twist the engine off the mounts! I will admit, it did have "seamless smooth shifts" ,and when you put it in gear from park, it was "gentle", but Damn, this is one of the biggest, baddest trucks on the road, I am not looking for "gentle"
I FORCED the local trans guy to install the DTT converter (I had to keep his). He never really pin pointed the slip problem, but found the old pressure regulator spring to be "weak". In addition he installed a new direct Clutch drum from a 48RE into my 47RE for a extra clutch disc (it now has 6), and installed a new, stronger pressure regulator spring. Problem solved.
As for the DTT converter. I am not sure of the %, but I can tell you, when I mash the go pedal, it hunkers down, torques up, and MOVES. When it shifts gears, you hear and feel it. In short, I think it pulls just as hard with lock up off, and it does when in lock up.
I am not sure what stall other builders use, but, I personally believe the lower the stall the better, anything else is just a waste of all that CTD power. Drag racing and sled pulling may need a loose unit for boost spool up, and my truck does belch black smoke for a couple of seconds until the party starts, but once it is rolling, you better move out of the way!
One final note. I own a DTT and can not comment on any others. I can tell you that a triple disc "seems" to be a better unit, IF THE PERFORMANCE UNLOCKED is as good as DTT's. One person said, "why spend the extra Dollars on a triple disc when a single disc will do?" In general, that goes against the ideology of "most" of the people on this list, or that own a CTD. Most of live and breathe "overkill". More often that not, building, modifying or installing parts that are way overbuilt, just for the added security, never asking for something "good enough".
I hope DTT is considering a triple disc. I have had very good service from them, and they make a great product, and are very good people. I have spoke with ATS, and the same seems true of them. I just think it would be perfect if I could get the DTT converter with the added security of the triple disc holding power, even if it did cost more.
Paul
This has turned into a long thread! Just to let everyone know (from page one) Got my trans back from the shop, and it appears to be fixed.
A few things I have learned:
Just because a guy say he knows about CTD transmissions, does not mean he does. I thought I was in good hands right up until I brought it back the second time, and my trans is on the table apart, and he says "anything over 22 psi of boost is too much for any automatic".
Get your trans from a experienced builder.
All Torque converters are not equal. I have not read "every" post in this thread, but from what I can tell, many references are made to drag racing or sled pulling. I would bet that 95% of will never do either. I use my truck to tow. I seldom even go through the trouble of warming it up unless it is pulling something.
With this local guys "Billet, HD converter" I would mash the pedal while pulling a 10,000# load, and it would just sit there, SCREAMING as it started to move. In less than 2 seconds I am up to 2600 rpm or more. I am know expect, but I think that is about where I start to de- fuel. I am pretty sure I am well above where the 12 valve engine is making its most power and torque, at least it feels that way.
In addition, when it goes into lock up, that 1000 rpm drop in a split second feels like it is going to twist the engine off the mounts! I will admit, it did have "seamless smooth shifts" ,and when you put it in gear from park, it was "gentle", but Damn, this is one of the biggest, baddest trucks on the road, I am not looking for "gentle"
I FORCED the local trans guy to install the DTT converter (I had to keep his). He never really pin pointed the slip problem, but found the old pressure regulator spring to be "weak". In addition he installed a new direct Clutch drum from a 48RE into my 47RE for a extra clutch disc (it now has 6), and installed a new, stronger pressure regulator spring. Problem solved.
As for the DTT converter. I am not sure of the %, but I can tell you, when I mash the go pedal, it hunkers down, torques up, and MOVES. When it shifts gears, you hear and feel it. In short, I think it pulls just as hard with lock up off, and it does when in lock up.
I am not sure what stall other builders use, but, I personally believe the lower the stall the better, anything else is just a waste of all that CTD power. Drag racing and sled pulling may need a loose unit for boost spool up, and my truck does belch black smoke for a couple of seconds until the party starts, but once it is rolling, you better move out of the way!
One final note. I own a DTT and can not comment on any others. I can tell you that a triple disc "seems" to be a better unit, IF THE PERFORMANCE UNLOCKED is as good as DTT's. One person said, "why spend the extra Dollars on a triple disc when a single disc will do?" In general, that goes against the ideology of "most" of the people on this list, or that own a CTD. Most of live and breathe "overkill". More often that not, building, modifying or installing parts that are way overbuilt, just for the added security, never asking for something "good enough".
I hope DTT is considering a triple disc. I have had very good service from them, and they make a great product, and are very good people. I have spoke with ATS, and the same seems true of them. I just think it would be perfect if I could get the DTT converter with the added security of the triple disc holding power, even if it did cost more.
Paul
paulsmith said:
See below.
I have a multi disk that has a low stall stator. When I was at 450RWHP the "sheet metal" stator was too low. But once I upped the power the "Mexico stator" was too high. So pulled the TC and put the other stator in it. This will be the third time trying a different stator.
Hey Stefan this is one of yours!!
This is the stock one. For those of you who have never seen one.
Here is the "Mexico stator"
Good to hear you got her back on the road!
Justin
Last edited by a moderator:
paulsmith said:
I would like to clarify one thing as I think your comment was taken from something I said.
I fully agree that most of us on this site are looking for maximum performance. When spending $4000-$5000 on a transimission we certainly do not want somthing that is just "good enough" and the idea of being "good enough" is not what I way trying to convey with my comments but I can see how it might have read that way originally. I have edited my original comment in quotations below.
Cooker said:
I would be interested to hear of cases when a properly set up, performance single disc TC has not been able to fully transfer the power of the truck when locked up. Until I start to see where a good single disc could not handle the power I will continue to feel that it is more than sufficient for our application. JMHO
Last edited:
My idea of good enough is probably a little different than most folks posting to this thread. The 215 hp trucks my family has are MORE than adequate for the work I do, if only I had a trans that could put the power to the ground. I'd like a little more power than I have, but not much... anyways...
I've really learned more on this thread so far than any trans thread so far, and, not to take this thread in another direction, what would be 'good enough' for a truck that would have only the 230 plate, and if ever modified any more, would never exceed 350 rwhp? Do folks like me need to even worry about billet shafts and triple discs?
I've really learned more on this thread so far than any trans thread so far, and, not to take this thread in another direction, what would be 'good enough' for a truck that would have only the 230 plate, and if ever modified any more, would never exceed 350 rwhp? Do folks like me need to even worry about billet shafts and triple discs?
I Quote
I FORCED the local trans guy to install the DTT converter (I had to keep his). He never really pin pointed the slip problem, but found the old pressure regulator spring to be "weak". In addition he installed a new direct Clutch drum from a 48RE into my 47RE for a extra clutch disc (it now has 6), and installed a new, stronger pressure regulator spring. Problem solved.
I really see a problem here, and for your benefit i will post what i feel is wrong!!! "He never really pin pointed the slip problem" That there tells me that you will slip this new trans ONCE AGAIN
"Poblem Solved" I highly doubt it, but for your sake i truely hope so!! Once a trans slips and slips again (same problem again and again) and this so called "trans guy" can't find a leak i think you're headed for major trouble. Now while a 5k tans sounds like alot of money. You just spent at least 2500 on a trans that is only as good as it's builder. (wich in my opinion from what you tell us, isn't much of a builder) Now that you've done the trans twice for 2500 a peice. You could have gotten a DTT that would walk all over your 'so-so local trans guy' transmission!!!!
Please don't think i'm flaming you about your choice, i'm not. I just wanted to share my opinion with what problem you could be facing in the near future!! Please tell me i'm wrong, i hope you're right!
Willy I really think you would be happy with any aftermarket transmission vendor that has already been listed in this thread. Before you make your choice drive similar HP trucks with an ATS, DTT, and suncoast, and other transmission's. Then you decide on what trans will best suite your needs!!
Justin what company do you build converters for ?? I am really interested in trying one of your units..... Warranty, Price ??? I love the low stall that DTT has in their converters!!! I have 4:10 gears and would want a 91% if at all possible!
Thanks
Curtis
I FORCED the local trans guy to install the DTT converter (I had to keep his). He never really pin pointed the slip problem, but found the old pressure regulator spring to be "weak". In addition he installed a new direct Clutch drum from a 48RE into my 47RE for a extra clutch disc (it now has 6), and installed a new, stronger pressure regulator spring. Problem solved.
I really see a problem here, and for your benefit i will post what i feel is wrong!!! "He never really pin pointed the slip problem" That there tells me that you will slip this new trans ONCE AGAIN
"Poblem Solved" I highly doubt it, but for your sake i truely hope so!! Once a trans slips and slips again (same problem again and again) and this so called "trans guy" can't find a leak i think you're headed for major trouble. Now while a 5k tans sounds like alot of money. You just spent at least 2500 on a trans that is only as good as it's builder. (wich in my opinion from what you tell us, isn't much of a builder) Now that you've done the trans twice for 2500 a peice. You could have gotten a DTT that would walk all over your 'so-so local trans guy' transmission!!!!
Please don't think i'm flaming you about your choice, i'm not. I just wanted to share my opinion with what problem you could be facing in the near future!! Please tell me i'm wrong, i hope you're right!
Willy I really think you would be happy with any aftermarket transmission vendor that has already been listed in this thread. Before you make your choice drive similar HP trucks with an ATS, DTT, and suncoast, and other transmission's. Then you decide on what trans will best suite your needs!!
Justin what company do you build converters for ?? I am really interested in trying one of your units..... Warranty, Price ??? I love the low stall that DTT has in their converters!!! I have 4:10 gears and would want a 91% if at all possible!
Thanks
Curtis
I totally agree with you conerning this local trans guy. I mentioned this earlier, but, this is a DTT trans that was slipping. It is alomst 2 years old, and has lots of HARD miles on it. Problem is logistics. Freight to DTT is close to $800 for the trans, round trip, and I have to pay to have it pulled. DTT glady sent me a replacment converter, no charge, but even then, Bill K. expressed his concern about this local guy. I should have listened!!! This all started as a simple converter change out, for $250, (much less than the Freight alone to DTT) and has gotten out of control. For the record, To date I have paid this jerk off trans guy a total of $1380. 00, which includes his "super billet converter" (now sitting in the floor of the truck, for sale!) and all the 48RE parts, and about 20 quarts of Synthic ATF.
Right now, I have a trans that is working. I hope this guy fixed the leak, even if it was by accident. I will not return to this guy. If it slips again, I have already spoken to Bill K. at DTT, and he will gladly make arrangements for me to take the truck to one of his shops for a true repair. The nearest shop is a bit of a drive, but, damn, it has got to be a lot better than all this head ache.
My fingers are crossed.
As for Willys, your truck sounds a lot like mine, and I too want the power to the ground. I can tell you the DTT converter is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the stock unit when it comes to pulling a load. The lower stall seems to keep the engine down in the power range, even before lock up, so I would really look for a lower stall, "tighter" converter from the supplier of your choice.
Paul Smith
Right now, I have a trans that is working. I hope this guy fixed the leak, even if it was by accident. I will not return to this guy. If it slips again, I have already spoken to Bill K. at DTT, and he will gladly make arrangements for me to take the truck to one of his shops for a true repair. The nearest shop is a bit of a drive, but, damn, it has got to be a lot better than all this head ache.
My fingers are crossed.
As for Willys, your truck sounds a lot like mine, and I too want the power to the ground. I can tell you the DTT converter is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the stock unit when it comes to pulling a load. The lower stall seems to keep the engine down in the power range, even before lock up, so I would really look for a lower stall, "tighter" converter from the supplier of your choice.
Paul Smith
If your closest DTT certified installer/rebuilder is Great Lakes Diesel Works You will most definately leave there completely satisfied in the workmanship.
I also hope he may have fixed the internal leak (by accident or purposely) for your sake!!!
I am really suprised that Bill K. allowed you to have a local guy install his parts. DTT parts are only as good as the rebuilder installing them. Obviously the local guy doesn't even think about going into depth on any transmission that he does (or may not know how!!)
In any case i'm really glad to hear your truck is back up and running again.
Please keep us posted as to how this whole ordeal works out!
Curtis
I also hope he may have fixed the internal leak (by accident or purposely) for your sake!!!
I am really suprised that Bill K. allowed you to have a local guy install his parts. DTT parts are only as good as the rebuilder installing them. Obviously the local guy doesn't even think about going into depth on any transmission that he does (or may not know how!!)
In any case i'm really glad to hear your truck is back up and running again.
Please keep us posted as to how this whole ordeal works out!
Curtis
Cooker said:
Goerends triple, is less than $1000.
Couldn't be happier with my transmission and t/c. Wish I had done it MUCH sooner.
Since most of my heavy towing is under 30 mph and wanted to still have decent spool-up, I went with the higher stall t/c, of the 2, that Dave offers. So far, so good.
For what it's worth, I installed the ATS tripple lock converter and valve body almost three years ago and have had no problems at all. I pull a 34 foot Travel Supreme 5th wheel at near 14,000 lbs with my '98. 5 24valve. The engine has been bombed a bit with RV injectors and the Edge Comp box. So far no problems.
I thought that BVoltner was the owner of NADP but could be wrong.
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Subscribe
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Subscription Status
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