auto versus 6 speed

[Jeremiah]

At last - someone with a sense of humor!

 

[Jeremiah]

Just joshing, guys, just joshing.

 

[BRayls]

I launch in 2 gear in 4 high, 60 foot 2. 27. 1320 14. 50's.

 

[hasselbach]

I launch in 2 gear in 4 high, 60 foot 2. 27. 1320 14. 50's.

Those 60 foot times are pretty slow for a 14. 50 ET. You'd be a lot faster with the automatic in ET for 60 foot as well as ET.



We ran the Edge Attitude this Wednesday night at LACR (air measured at a pathetic 9500 feet due to the heat and humidity). But the good news is, launching in level 4 in 2 wheel drive (don't like to beat up the truck to much launching in 4 high, and won't run level 5 until I do some TC mods), at 1100 rpm, its a lot faster than 14. 50 and the 60 foot times are way below 2. 27. . This thing is an animal now. Got 2nd gear rubber. PM me if anyone wants to see the time slips. Not sure what I can post as a beta tester yet.

 

[BRayls]

all four up in smoke. and the smell of something in the cab :-laf ohh thats right clutch. I will get slips when my notes return from out west in the auto truck. that was with 40 hp injecters in. during our runs the auto was faster in the 1320 but not 60 foot ,launching like you 1600rpm. I was up to 2000-2100rpm,very violant launches :--) . I would not recommend that unless you are willing to buy parts. No I did not break but we know its very possible that it could have. please pm me the slips.

 

[Archive]

Thanks Matt.



Can you lock out fourth while in third (like an OD lockout button)?

 

[Matt400]

Sure, the button is on the end of the shift lever.

 

[Matt400]

About the use of the word slipping when it comes to the auto maybe someone can help me understand this one... .



On particular grades around my area I have noticed 4th unlocked produces the same RPM's at the speed of 45-50 vs 3rd locked.

So if the engine RPMs are the same and the mph is the same how would it be that the auto is so inefficient while unlocked in 4th?



This is unloaded cruise through the mountains and I realize that 3rd locked is the better selection while pulling for trans safety. Pulling in 4th unlocked would of course produce a higher RPM due to more throttle but not so unloaded on this particular grade.



All I see is that 3rd locked produces a higher input shaft speed keeping the trucks RPM's & Speed moving where as 4th unlocked has the transmissions taller gear making up for an unlocked converter.



In everyday unloaded cruise situations the output to the driveline seems to be what is important more than what is going on with the trans.

 

[jsimpson]

If I could have got my CTD with an Allison transmission like the one in my brother's Chevy, I'd advise buying the automatic. But since I could only get it with the 48RE, I really miss the 5-speed manual in my old 94! I vote for the six speed!!! :{

 

[hasselbach]

yeah, I think now I wish I got a 6er too. Anyone want to trade my faster automatic 04. 5 for your 6 speed?

 

[RustyJC]

Anyone want to trade my faster automatic 04. 5 for your 6 speed?

Not all of us bought our trucks to race - a few of us bought them to work (see signature).

 

[hasselbach]

Not all of us bought our trucks to race - a few of us bought them to work (see signature).

me too, except I can race to work faster than you



All kidding aside, I think the 6 speed is a great choice for many of you. I just may trade mine in later this year for a 6-speed and sunroof. .

 

[RustyJC]

me too, except I can race to work faster than you

I don't recall anyone ever claiming the 6-speed is quicker from a standing start. If that's your main priority, buy the automatic. Horses for courses.....



Rusty

 

[BRayls]

I don't recall anyone ever claiming the 6-speed is quicker from a standing start. If that's your main priority, buy the automatic. Horses for courses.....



Rusty

Actually I did. Any time you would like to bring the auto to Indiana and show me you are faster please do so, hasselbach. If not show pics of your et slips for your proof. I guess you have to try and provoke me because you have no facts to back the claims you made. peace out

 

[BRayls]

How many autos have dynoed showing all the extra torque that the tc builds?

 

[hasselbach]

I launch in 2 gear in 4 high, 60 foot 2. 27. 1320 14. 50's.

ah, how about 13. 50's, 60 foots in the low 2 second range and a MPH at 98? I think I got you beat BRay :{



Yeah, I'm going to drive all the way to Indiana just to prove to you an auto is superior in the acceleration department. . That makes about as much sense as racing a 6 speed in the quarter. :-laf



I'll scan the slips later, PM me your email. And when you get the slips, I don't want to hear any whining that the slips are doctored or not my truck. They are legit.

 

[hasselbach]

How many autos have dynoed showing all the extra torque that the tc builds?

Obviously you don't do too much chassis dyno work, but you normally lock the converter in direct (in the case of the dodge, that would be third) and perform your dyno pull. They only way I know you could do a full pull without the TC locking up would be in 1st gear.



There is no dyno that I know of that would be able to record the torque produced in 1st gear by these trucks. Let's see, what is 600 foot lbs times 2. 5 times 3. 73 times 2 (TC multiplication). . Ah, a lot. Something like 11,000 ft lbs of torque. . Tell me, do you know of a dyno in Indiana that can support this type of torque?



However, I have personally worked with several TC companies (noted about 200 posts above) and we have recorded 2 to 2. 5 to 1 TC multiplications on a transmission dyno. So yep, it is fact.

 

[Archive]

What's on either side of the transmisson is more important than the transmisson. I happen to have a six speed with 500 naturally aspirated hp and 550 NA ft lbs at one end and 3,150 lbs of fifth generation Corvette at the other. With six speeds the perfect tool for the humiliation of some proud owner of Italian or German technology is always readily at hand. And they have some mighty fancy and expensive transmissions that boast combinations of the best technology of both manual and automatic transmissions. So maybe they get a few fractions of a second shifting, but it isn't enough. Superior power to weight ratios trump fancy transmissions.



So if you've got a manual, smile, and spend your money you save on black boxes, turbos and such. With a little practice, the auto won't have enough edge to matter unless you are extremely evenly matched.



And the more radical the horsepower mods, the more problems the guy with the auto has to solve since auto technology is typically less overbuilt than manual technology and more complicated to upgrade. Not all of us live in easy reach of the people who know how to beef autos. But anyone can swap in a high performance clutch. Throw in some high performance synthetic lube that doesn't care how hot it gets and have fun! Oo.

 

[Jeremiah]

Rules of thumb

What's on either side of the transmisson is more important than the transmisson. I happen to have a six speed with 500 naturally aspirated hp and 550 NA ft lbs at one end and 3,150 lbs of fifth generation Corvette at the other. With six speeds the perfect tool for the humiliation of some proud owner of Italian or German technology is always readily at hand. And they have some mighty fancy and expensive transmissions that boast combinations of the best technology of both manual and automatic transmissions. So maybe they get a few fractions of a second shifting, but it isn't enough. Superior power to weight ratios trump fancy transmissions.



So if you've got a manual, smile, and spend your money you save on black boxes, turbos and such. With a little practice, the auto won't have enough edge to matter unless you are extremely evenly matched.



And the more radical the horsepower mods, the more problems the guy with the auto has to solve since auto technology is typically less overbuilt than manual technology and more complicated to upgrade. Not all of us live in easy reach of the people who know how to beef autos. But anyone can swap in a high performance clutch. Throw in some high performance synthetic lube that doesn't care how hot it gets and have fun! Oo.

There is a rule of thumb that says a 6-speed must have at least 100 extra hp before it can keep up with a stock automatic transmission. I'm not sure even that is enough because my EZ supposedly adds 100 extra hp. It's quicker and a lot more fun to drive, but I'm still not sure it would beat an auto. OTH, I don't drag race my truck so can't say for sure.

 

[hasselbach]

What's on either side of the transmisson is more important than the transmisson. I happen to have a six speed with 500 naturally aspirated hp and 550 NA ft lbs at one end and 3,150 lbs of fifth generation Corvette at the other. With six speeds the perfect tool for the humiliation of some proud owner of Italian or German technology is always readily at hand. And they have some mighty fancy and expensive transmissions that boast combinations of the best technology of both manual and automatic transmissions. So maybe they get a few fractions of a second shifting, but it isn't enough. Superior power to weight ratios trump fancy transmissions.



So if you've got a manual, smile, and spend your money you save on black boxes, turbos and such. With a little practice, the auto won't have enough edge to matter unless you are extremely evenly matched.



And the more radical the horsepower mods, the more problems the guy with the auto has to solve since auto technology is typically less overbuilt than manual technology and more complicated to upgrade. Not all of us live in easy reach of the people who know how to beef autos. But anyone can swap in a high performance clutch. Throw in some high performance synthetic lube that doesn't care how hot it gets and have fun! Oo.

Really? Well why does my blown alcohol car with a fairly stock turbo 400 run faster, and quicker with the auto than with the lenco or clutch turbo that we tested? Hmmm, why are autos banned in many nhra type cars? Seems to me to be the unfair competitive edge that they have over the shifty transmissions.