auto versus 6 speed

[Archive]

There is a rule of thumb that says a 6-speed must have at least 100 extra hp before it can keep up with a stock automatic transmission. I'm not sure even that is enough because my EZ supposedly adds 100 extra hp. It's quicker and a lot more fun to drive, but I'm still not sure it would beat an auto. OTH, I don't drag race my truck so can't say for sure.

Such a rule would be useful if it were more along the lines of "A manual needs X percent more horsepower ... ", but a fixed number is useless since there is such variance between vehicles.

 

[Archive]

Really? Well why does my blown alcohol car with a fairly stock turbo 400 run faster, and quicker with the auto than with the lenco or clutch turbo that we tested? Hmmm, why are autos banned in many nhra type cars? Seems to me to be the unfair competitive edge that they have over the shifty transmissions.

I did allow that the auto would have an edge, all other things being equal. But a small edge that could be minimized by driver skill and overcome by putting more money in the engine as opposed to the auto. My comments were also made in the context of factory vehicles and transmissions.



Nevertheless, your experience with your blown alchohol car is valid and interesting. Judging from the caliber of your operations, I will save us some time by assuming you minimized variables relating to traction and power.

Just much of an improvement did the auto average over the Lenco and the clutch turbo? I don't need time slips, just your overall findings.



(I understand the Lenco is a manual transmission and I assume you used it in conjuction with an appropriate slider clutch?)

 

[hasselbach]

I did allow that the auto would have an edge, all other things being equal. But a small edge that could be minimized by driver skill and overcome by putting more money in the engine as opposed to the auto. My comments were also made in the context of factory vehicles and transmissions.



Nevertheless, your experience with your blown alcohol car is valid and interesting. Judging from the caliber of your operations, I will save us some time by assuming you minimized variables relating to traction and power.

Just much of an improvement did the auto average over the Lenco and the clutch turbo? I don't need time slips, just your overall findings.



(I understand the Lenco is a manual transmission and I assume you used it in conjunction with an appropriate slider clutch?)

Traction is not a problem, car will hook in a car wash if it needed to.



We found typically a 2/10th gain, most of it on the launch and 0-60 foot times. MPH had no gain to speak of.



We found that we could load the motor and thus get fuel and boost in the motor sooner than we could with the manual trans. Launch was much more controlled and predicable. Most of the cars we run against in the heads up, quick 16 brackets seem to be using autos, unless they have extremely light cars, where the gericos and lencos seem to work pretty good.

 

[Archive]

In the competion you're in, and given the seriousness involved, 2/10ths of a second unarguably is a very significant advantage.



On the street between a couple of semi-skilled yahoos with randomly matched equipment, someone who likes his / her manual should not worry about it. It is not likely this variable will decide the race.



Was over in the general diesel topics. Looks like Ford's 5 speed auto has added to the choices out there. Haven't seen much info on how it locks up or works with exhaust brakes.

 

[BRayls]

I would only say ,put your money where your mouth is. as the old saying goes,never show your full hand . TCSF , I agree 100 %. I have run the quick 32 shows all over central states,as well we ran super gas for 10+ years before going to super comp for another 5-6. Coan Engineering is local and one of the best TC manufacuters around, we raced with Dave C. for years ,trailering to many div 3 races together. I never said the auto was faster in the race,but ours was not faster off the line. :-laf to getting beat by . 5 second because of my shifting. peace out . I will even put you up for the time your here h. buddy

 

[hasselbach]

I would only say ,put your money where your mouth is. as the old saying goes,never show your full hand . TCSF , I agree 100 %. I have run the quick 32 shows all over central states,as well we ran super gas for 10+ years before going to super comp for another 5-6. Coan Engineering is local and one of the best TC manufacuters around, we raced with Dave C. for years ,trailering to many div 3 races together. I never said the auto was faster in the race,but ours was not faster off the line. :-laf to getting beat by . 5 second because of my shifting. peace out . I will even put you up for the time your here h. buddy

really, you will put me up at a bed and breakfast? that changes everything. . I'll get back to you shortly. Coan makes a great transmission and TC.

 

[djbobo]

Hasselbach:

Nice toys - Now how a bout a picture of your Viper. I won't think any less of it even if it has a manual trans. I've been told that those V-10s can really be woken up!



doug

 

[hasselbach]

Hasselbach:

Nice toys - Now how a bout a picture of your Viper. I won't think any less of it even if it has a manual trans. I've been told that those V-10s can really be woken up!



doug

yep, the viper is awesome to say the least. . It pins you in the seat for a very very long time... .

 

[XcumminsX]

Ok enough crap about racing...



How much will it cost me to swap my auto for a manual... I already have the different driveshafts... . All i need is the 6 speed trans and whatever harnasses...



Why am i doing this?

1) the trans is failing already...



2) I want a manual because of the reliability and the fact of me doing my clutch myself. And im skilled enough to beat a auto in a race so i dont care... .

 

[XcumminsX]

Vipers are cool and will pick up some nice womens...



But why not buy a z06 vette dump a few grand in it and save yourself 30k... .



If you have the money and dont care more power too you but im just pointing something out...

 

[hasselbach]

Vipers are cool and will pick up some nice womens...



But why not buy a z06 vette dump a few grand in it and save yourself 30k... .



If you have the money and dont care more power too you but im just pointing something out...

ah good points, but:



The stock viper will smoke even a hopped up vette (I had a z06 prior to getting the viper)



The suspension on the viper is awesome



The stare factor in the viper is 10 times more than the vette got me. .



when I hop up the viper, look out. .

 

[Archive]

Ok enough crap about racing...



How much will it cost me to swap my auto for a manual... I already have the different driveshafts... . All i need is the 6 speed trans and whatever harnasses...



Why am i doing this?

1) the trans is failing already...



2) I want a manual because of the reliability and the fact of me doing my clutch myself. And im skilled enough to beat a auto in a race so i dont care... .

I would suggest that you get the auto repaired, sell the vehicle and buy one with a manual. Probably not much difference in cost (unless you can do it yourself and can get used parts) and definitely simpler.

 

[Archive]

The stock viper will smoke even a hopped up vette

Maybe some, obviously not all. There are examples of both cars sporting in excess of 800 streetable horsepower. And whatever level of mods you contemplate, the Vette will allways have the advantage of being several hundred pounds lighter.



I have the aluminum 427 block but chose to remain naturally aspirated, with a mild cam, smog legal and am making 500 hp, which I last heard is what factory Vipers have today. With 275 x 35 x 18s on the front and 335 x 30 x 18s on the back I'm mounting Viper rubber with less weight for that same rubber to accelerate, turn or stop.



Maybe one day maybe I'll send her back for forced induction but for now I couldn't be happier and the shiny side is still up.

 

[XcumminsX]

ah good points, but:



The stock viper will smoke even a hopped up vette (I had a z06 prior to getting the viper)



The suspension on the viper is awesome



The stare factor in the viper is 10 times more than the vette got me. .



when I hop up the viper, look out. .

The scare factor :-laf Give me a break man, My buddy has a talon that would give your car 2 tennis ball throws at the track and hed still come right from behind you and beat you. It does matter what kind of scare tactics it has. And if you put about 3,4k into a z06 corvette it would smoke your viper... :-laf

 

[LightmanE300]

ah good points, but:



The stock viper will smoke even a hopped up vette (I had a z06 prior to getting the viper)



The suspension on the viper is awesome



The stare factor in the viper is 10 times more than the vette got me. .



when I hop up the viper, look out. .

Vipers are great performers. In his defense xcumminsx, if he dumped 3-4 grand in the viper it would be equally faster than a hopped up vette or more with that huge 10 cyl. .



Hasselbach , what good do all those stares do when you have on that fannypack? :-laf :-laf

 

[XcumminsX]

Lets take a look at the obvious. . ok?



a viper costs about 80k



a z06 vette is about 55k...



55k + 4k = 59 k



viper = 80k. .



Do you understand or do i have to explain it better... LMAO. .

 

[JMcDowell]

Yet another

The scare factor :-laf Give me a break man, My buddy has a talon that would give your car 2 tennis ball throws at the track and hed still come right from behind you and beat you. It does matter what kind of scare tactics it has. And if you put about 3,4k into a z06 corvette it would smoke your viper... :-laf

What do SCARE factors and SCARE tactics have to do with STARE factors?

Maybe you could explain that "better".

And by the way 3-4k wont get you anywhere with a Z06.

 

[RustyJC]

Lets take a look at the obvious. . ok?



a viper costs about 80k



a z06 vette is about 55k...



55k + 4k = 59 k



viper = 80k. .



Do you understand or do i have to explain it better... LMAO. .

With Grandpa driving a Maybach 57, why are you worried about money - yours or anyone else's?



Rusty

 

[XcumminsX]

oh really... . I can think of something that costs under a grand you can do to a z06 and give it an extra 150 hp on the track... NOS. .



Z06 + Nos will beat your viper... . forget 3-4 g's you dont even need it.



WOW THE VIPER HAS 10 CYLINDERS... Who cares. . Its as pointless as the powerstroke and duramax having 8 instead of 6 like us. .

 

[Tomeygun]

oh really... . I can think of something that costs under a grand you can do to a z06 and give it an extra 150 hp on the track... NOS. .



Z06 + Nos will beat your viper... . forget 3-4 g's you dont even need it.



WOW THE VIPER HAS 10 CYLINDERS... Who cares. . Its as pointless as the powerstroke and duramax having 8 instead of 6 like us. .

I thought i'd point out this viper (CLICK HERE) ... streetable and 1100hp...



Of course there is also 4-cyl imports making 800hp, what i think it comes down to, is that Vettes are very affordable and i see quite a few around here...



Vipers? I see about 1 every two months



and yeah, and PS - put that 150hp NOS on the viper, and back to beating the vette



I bet you will argue that you can take a 50K vette and add 30K upgrades and kill a 80k viper, huh?



Well i will build my 80k tube chassis street car and do that same from HERE , money=power/speed, its just a matter of where you start



ok, i am going back sleep