auto versus 6 speed

[FDavid]

I would take a full ATS auto over a stock 6 speed. You would be getting a trannie capable of handling almost twice the power of a stock manual trannie-



dj

I hope you are kidding. Banks is using a stock nv5600 with a dual disc clutch and its easily handling the 700+hp and 1200+ lbs ft of torque on project sidewinder. If the ATS can take 1400 +hp than all i can say is :--)

 

[Bertram65]

People say the auto is weaker than the stick because it is. Come on people, I am the first person who will admit the advantages of an automatic transmission, but you don't really think that there are more 6 spds out there failing than 48re's or even 47's do you?



If you say " the auto is easier in traffic", I'll be the first to agree. If you say " it's easier for my wife to drive", yep. "easier to back up my trailer", OK. " I like to talk on my cell phone/slurp coffee/eat McBurgers wilst driving", you betcha, BUT "because it'll last longer than an NV-5600", Sorry I don't think so.



Dave

We are talking about the 48RE, period. Forget about the 47RE. Can you show any posts listing failures of the 48RE? Simple statistics, there are way more 48RE equiped 3rd gen trucks out there than 6 speeds, yet there are quite a few posts on here with 6 speed owners having problems, I would say more than those with the 48RE. I am not saying the 48RE is better than the 6 speed just everyone needs lay off with the relentless "the Dodge autos are no good attitude" Transmission discussions are as bad as oil discussions.

 

[XcumminsX]

I Wish My Truck Had A Manual :{

 

[DPelletier]

Bertram65,



The previous poster was talking about his 47RE, which is why I included it. Do a search and you'll find we did have a post with statistical failures of the 48RE. It was an independant survey and the results were posted by RBayls, if memory serves. The 48RE came in right behind the Ford Torqueshift and ahead of the Allison (surprise, surprise!). As I've said before the 48RE has been holding up well. If I were to criticize, it should be a 5 spd and it should be exhaust brake compatible, but it does seem to be hanging in there, reliability wise. I also think 6spd vs auto threads rank right up there with short box vs. long box, ATS vs. DTT, Amsoil vs. ?, K&N threads, etc. and I purposely avoided responding to this thread until I started to read stuff that I felt was factually incorrect.

I reiterate; statistically speaking (forget the fact there are more autos built) there is NO WAY that the NV-5600 is failing more often than the 48RE. The 48RE is a vast improvement over the previous version but it simply cannot and will not ever boast the strenght, longevity and reliability of the NV-5600.

I also read all threads related to 3rd gens every day and the only seen a handful of issues with the NV-5600 and even then most were clutch related.



I'm not trying to p*** anybody off that has the 48RE, just don't tell me that its stronger than my NV-5600, because it simply isn't. Period.





Dave

 

[RankRam]

DPelletier:



I'm not trying to p*** anybody off that has the 48RE, just don't tell me that its stronger than my NV-5600, because it simply isn't. Period.





Dave



You are not hurting my feelings, I agree with you.



Especially the part about the exhaust brake. :{

 

[DPelletier]

For the heck of it I did four searches and here are the results;



- 48RE & Problem = 85 results

- 48RE & Failure = 12 results

- NV5600 & Problem = 9 results

- NV5600 & Failure = 3 results



I read all the NV-5600 threads that came up and noted that only one post out of the above searches actually had a failure of an NV5600 and that was a bad bearing posted by MBastion on August 14th, 2004. All the rest weren't failures; a couple of clutch issues, a 5spd 5th gear failure, Nick wishing he bought a 6 spd and a couple of people saying there have been no bomb-related failures of NV-5600's to date. And yes, I'm aware that DC sells more autos, although I think you will find that TDR member statistics would show more 6 spds than the general public buys, percentage wise.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[hasselbach]

I'm having my auto torn down soon, change the converter (suncoast or dtt), maybe a box to change the TQ lock up, and then putting a exhaust brake on it, regardless of what dodge says. . if the warranty goes bye bye, fine. . at least it will be set up more usable than it is.



regardless of the tow haul switch, the converter unlocks at 1800 rpm. . what's with that?

 

[Bertram65]

For the heck of it I did four searches and here are the results;



- 48RE & Problem = 85 results

- 48RE & Failure = 12 results

- NV5600 & Problem = 9 results

- NV5600 & Failure = 3 results



I read all the NV-5600 threads that came up and noted that only one post out of the above searches actually had a failure of an NV5600 and that was a bad bearing posted by MBastion on August 14th, 2004. All the rest weren't failures; a couple of clutch issues, a 5spd 5th gear failure, Nick wishing he bought a 6 spd and a couple of people saying there have been no bomb-related failures of NV-5600's to date. And yes, I'm aware that DC sells more autos, although I think you will find that TDR member statistics would show more 6 spds than the general public buys, percentage wise.



Cheers,

Dave

Interesting,

Does not really mean much unless you read each post as searching for combinations of words proves nothing. My point has been and still is the 48RE is a good transmission, there have been very few failures if any reported on here. The six speed has always been good, unlike the previous auto the 47RE. I would agree with you statment about more manuals here than the average overall.

 

[hasselbach]

here's my thought. . the trans is so strong because so much of the 600's torque is turning into heat due to the sloppy converter and late engaging lock up. . Hell, I could run this converter in my super gas car probably...

 

[LightmanE300]

Those search results are pretty irrelevant in my opinion. Consider all the threads asking " any problems with the 48RE" from concerned prospective buyers who are tempted by the convenience of the auto.



The automatic is certainly more convenient in any case, as many have mentioned earlier... however I agree with the 6speed guys on the strength issue. Sure 48re's haven't blown up yet in the short 2 years theyve been out. Only a handful of guys have more than 100K on a third gen truck, it's too early to tell. I agree with the folks that simply say the manual will be stronger than the auto due to the manual's inherent simplicity. Automatic transmissions have more parts to break and simply aren't as strong.



Simply for the sake of cheaply being able to handle performance upgrades, I kinda wish I would have gotten the 6speed. Then on the way home from work I fight through 20 miles of stop and go 5-20 mph rush hour traffic, and thank god I had some shred of mental capacity at the time I decided on the auto. The fact is, aside from the track or dyno, most people can't (legally or illegally) use 500+hp very often in a city.



That aside, and not to get too far off topic, I'm outraged that Cummins and Dodge have apparently decided to completely leave 03-early 04 48RE owners stranded in the dark with respect to an exhaust brake. I drive several hills on the way to work each day and would love to flip the switch instead of having to ride my service brakes the whole way down the hills. . I feel pretty betrayed by the both of them. The combination of no exhaust brake and expensive upgrades to handle added power are almost enough to make me wish for the 6spd. But then comes another day, with another 5pm rush hour and it's a wash. Ahh can't have your cake and eat it too!! :-laf

 

[RustyJC]

The combination of no exhaust brake and expensive upgrades to handle added power are almost enough to make me wish for the 6spd. But then comes another day, with another 5pm rush hour and it's a wash. Ahh can't have your cake and eat it too!! :-laf

Well, actually, we could if we could get a powershift NV5700 (yeah, those of us who tow heavy with 4. 10's would love a 7th gear for running empty!)



Rusty

 

[rashwor]

Now you are talking Rusty! Any ideas if the beast would mount up to the Cummins in the Dodge trucks? Oo.

 

[FDavid]

why not get a gear vendors unit and have 12 speeds?

 

[RustyJC]

Any ideas if the beast would mount up to the Cummins in the Dodge trucks? Oo.

Actually, there's not a powershift NV5700 that I know of. I was just daydreaming... .

Why not get a Gear Vendors unit and have 12 speeds?

Primarily because an exhaust brake cannot be used with the GearVendors unit when it is engaged - it is not designed to transmit "reverse torque". Generally speaking, the U. S. Gear unit works better for manual transmissions, while the GearVendors is more suited for automatics.



Our truck spends 90% of its working life towing a 5th wheel. If I ran empty more often, I might be able to justify (probably not financially) the $2500 or more for an auxiliary overdrive.



Rusty

 

[EBottema]

Why doesn't Dodge get with the program, scrap the 48re... go with a Allison 5 or 6 speed automatic that is built like a tank... . Come on this is the way to go!



Erik

 

[klenger]

I want a two-speed transfer case that yields 3. 54 and 4. 10 final drive ratios and can be used in 2WD or 4WD. I never use the low range anyway.

 

[DPelletier]

Bertram65,



I agree that my search doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot as evidenced by the fact that there were 12 hits total on the NV-5600 searches and only one real transmission problem. I was addressing your assertion that there were "quite a few posts on here with 6-speed owners having problems". This simply isn't the case.

The NV-5600 has proven to be an excellent transmission and arguable the best transmission ever built for a pickup truck.

I totally agree that the 48RE has had very few failures and has been holding up admirably. The "Dodge makes crappy autos" generalization on other forums sticks in my craw too.



Peace, my clutchless brother!



Dave

 

[Bertram65]

Peace here as well. I like the auto, but I have to say with all the hoopla over the 6 speed if I was to get a new one I think I would have to try it. Maybe an '06.

 

[LightmanE300]

I've considered a stick in my next cummins, but I didn' t buy this thing to trade it in a year or two, so maybe my next stickshift cummins will be a 2014

 

[hasselbach]

If a torque converter has a typical torque multiple of 2. 6 to 1 (torque in multiplied 2. 6 times), then 2. 6 times 2. 45 (first gear) is almost 6. 4 to 1, vs. the sticks 5. 63 to 1 first gear ratio. Theoretically then the auto should have more umph than the stick, right? I used to do a lot of testing for a major TQ company in the 90's with my comp car, and learned that TQ's are pretty incredible devices.