Bad fuel, dealer said entire sys needs replaced!

[Wygate]

I understand the situation clearly as my 06 had to have the complete system replaced after a bad load of fuel, and the cost was well over $5,000. But that being said I still don't expect a vehicle to be designed to take into account every possible occurrence I might run into. If it were it would be $70k instead of $50k.

These trucks are designed to take into account the situations we might experience under "normal" day to day conditions. They are not designed (and I don't want to pay for) to clean up the mess made by the fuel station operator that does not properly maintain the filter and water separator on his pump, or the contractor who does the same. The people who have reported complete failures didn't just get a little water in their tank, they god a load of it, and it might not have been water either. That is what I have insurance for, and they can go after the guilty party.

And as a note, a dirty fuel filter can't strip water like it was designed to do, so diligent filter maintenance is my responsibility also.

A lawyer and a class action is only going to line the pockets of the law office, and do little to change the way the car or truck is built. Read the settlement agreement on almost any class action, and the consumer rarely gets anything, and the lawyer gets rich.

I don't believe that it shold stop everything, it should however stop the major components from being destroyed on a truck that has less than 6k on it. It is not like I have had it for years and am not doing the mantance it needs. When the truck see's crap in the sys it should flash a warning, it is designed to do that and it never happened. The only thing I had come up was DPF FULL only after the truck was "limped" out of trafic and only after I shut it down and restarted. I had even pressed the system check to see what was up and nothing.



Second I have never talked about a lawyer or class action in reguards to Dodge/ Chrysler. Just that if we are having problems we need to follow the corect reporting route by following the systems Dodge has in place. Thus allowing them to do the right thing. I am not out for a payday just want a dependible truck that wont leave me a one and three year old, my wife 2 cats, 2 hundred lb plus dogs and my car haller on the side of the road during a 1000 mile trip half way from my home and destitanation. As of right now I have been without a truck for 11 days. I also bought the "best extended warrenty" offered by Chrysler, there words not mine. Also this fix will be $13,000 and change.



I deal with mulity million dollar boats and ships that see hundreds of gal per min and they have systems to keep the crap out of them and work quite well. For That matter Dodge has a fix for this issue for the 07. 5 and up they just have not given the go for recall or install on a case by case as of yet it is still on the consumer ($750 plus 5-7hr of labor)



Yes a good bit of the blame dose lie with Shell for letting this happen in the first place, and that is being delt with by my insurance co.

 

[firemansdiesel]

i bought mine from dave smith motors, in idaho. i got it right off the display shelf. their parts department keeps them in stock. if i remember right it was around $250-300 for the unit. plus install.

I've had no fuel issues, except needing to change the frame filters, every 15,000 miles.

i have yet to change the factory fuel filter.

WOW! I was quoted $695 through my dealer, not including install. Can you confirm on your price, if so, I will call Dave Smith and order through them.



Also can you take a picture/s of the set up on your truck?

 

[HBarlow]

Well it is the start of my second week with out a truck and 500 miles from home. My ins is paying to fix the truck, it needs the entire fuel sys short of new lines and tank!

I just got off the phone with the "factory" and asked them why they would not install the new TSB kit. They had been very helpfull until this phone con.
I asked them why they would authorize a repair that will most likely happen again when they have a fix! No response. They (and by they I mean us the consumer) have a big problem here and seem to know it, so far this new TSB is the 3rd re-do of the 7. 5 and up filtration sys that I am aware of! I did not pay $50k plus for a truck I can't trust with my family in it!

I am personally aware of 3 trucks that have had this same issue in the last 3 or so weeks. I just read a post that will make 4. The only thing I know to do is for us to call the factory and lodge official complaints about this problem.

Your argument, the blame you assign to Chrysler/Dodge, and your demand for a free extreme service filter system are ridiculous. Why would you think Dodge should GIVE it to you?

I have owned and driven three Dodge Rams with Cummins engines, and '01, and '06, and my current '08 for a total of almost 620,000 miles and never experienced bad fuel. Bad fuel is very rare and most Dodge-Cummins owners never even know anyone who have experienced any.

I have never had trouble worth whining about with any of the three of my Dodges. All three have provided outstanding service and reliability without any modifications whatsoever to the fuel filtration or delivery system.

The '01 had an unauthorized set of Bosch injectors intended for the 275 hp motorhome ISB engine installed when it was new which made it run very strong and created excessive exhaust gas temps. I ran it hard for 325,000 miles, many of them pulling trailers commercially. It is still in the family. I put 230,000 miles on an '06 in less than two years towing commercially. My '08 has 63,000 trouble free miles on the odometer. NO bad fuel or fuel system problems with any of the three. I've bought fuel from Fairbanks to Key West, from San Diego to Nova Scotia, and almost everywhere in between.

I have used factory standard injection pumps, transfer pumps, and Fleetguard filters. I've never seen any reason for aftermarket fuel transfer pumps or exotic filters and have never experienced a failure or highway breakdown.

Frankly, a mass produced heavy duty light truck like our Dodge Rams cannot be made idiot proof and we couldn't afford to buy them if the manufacturer tried to design against every possible stupid thing that anyone could do to one.

What has happened to Americans that are incapable of accepting responsibility for their own life? What happened to Americans that accepted their own misfortune and solved their own problem?

You are making a big deal out of contaminated fuel in your truck but it is curious to a reader sitting here on the sidelines reading your posts, uninvolved and objective, that you claim to have purchased a bad tank of fuel at an interstate highway station but you have expressed no concern about the station you claim sold you the fuel. You have never mentioned filing complaints with the corporation that owns the station, with the state agency that is responsible for licensing and regulating fuel stations. You have not mentioned contacting the fuel station manager to file a complaint and demand for taking responsibility. I wonder if you did in fact buy the fuel from a fuel stop?

If you cannot afford to handle a minor setback such as what has happened to you perhaps you couldn't afford a new truck.

 

[tempforce]

check my profile photo, sorry that's the largest the system would let me load.
i use a 2 micron fleet guard filter. the filter/separator is in front of my air compressor box and behind the air tank.
i contacted dave smith to post the filter system on their dodge accessory web page.
i didn't ask for a updated price.

 

[Wygate]

Your argument, the blame you assign to Chrysler/Dodge, and your demand for a free extreme service filter system are ridiculous. Why would you think Dodge should GIVE it to you?



I have owned and driven three Dodge Rams with Cummins engines, and '01, and '06, and my current '08 for a total of almost 620,000 miles and never experienced bad fuel. Bad fuel is very rare and most Dodge-Cummins owners never even know anyone who have experienced any.



I have never had trouble worth whining about with any of the three of my Dodges. All three have provided outstanding service and reliability without any modifications whatsoever to the fuel filtration or delivery system.



The '01 had an unauthorized set of Bosch injectors intended for the 275 hp motorhome ISB engine installed when it was new which made it run very strong and created excessive exhaust gas temps. I ran it hard for 325,000 miles, many of them pulling trailers commercially. It is still in the family. I put 230,000 miles on an '06 in less than two years towing commercially. My '08 has 63,000 trouble free miles on the odometer. NO bad fuel or fuel system problems with any of the three. I've bought fuel from Fairbanks to Key West, from San Diego to Nova Scotia, and almost everywhere in between.



I have used factory standard injection pumps, transfer pumps, and Fleetguard filters. I've never seen any reason for aftermarket fuel transfer pumps or exotic filters and have never experienced a failure or highway breakdown.



Frankly, a mass produced heavy duty light truck like our Dodge Rams cannot be made idiot proof and we couldn't afford to buy them if the manufacturer tried to design against every possible stupid thing that anyone could do to one.



What has happened to Americans that are incapable of accepting responsibility for their own life? What happened to Americans that accepted their own misfortune and solved their own problem?



You are making a big deal out of contaminated fuel in your truck but it is curious to a reader sitting here on the sidelines reading your posts, uninvolved and objective, that you claim to have purchased a bad tank of fuel at an interstate highway station but you have expressed no concern about the station you claim sold you the fuel. You have never mentioned filing complaints with the corporation that owns the station, with the state agency that is responsible for licensing and regulating fuel stations. You have not mentioned contacting the fuel station manager to file a complaint and demand for taking responsibility. I wonder if you did in fact buy the fuel from a fuel stop?



If you cannot afford to handle a minor setback such as what has happened to you perhaps you couldn't afford a new truck.

Harvey,

You have been with me from the very beginning in this and my 911 post, you even asked me to keep posting until it is resolved. As for the comment of not being able to afford a 50k truck, who has 13k just sitting around to fix a truck with one payment? I think that is getting way off track as is using Americans in the way you did. I have never been given anything I did not work for, I have been serving this country for over 19 years and earned every penny I have.

I have been just relaying things as they happen, Dodge did not develop a new filter sys just for the fun of it, the 2010 have it for a reason.

I have and still lay the initial blame on the Shell oil that I stated was the root cause of the issue in my 911 post (Shell/ Perkins breezewood, PA), this is now being taken care of by my insurance co so I am out of the loop so I have nothing to say until they give me info.



Also I was called by a different side of Chrysler today and was told by this person that they could not believe the way I have been treated by them as I have the best warranty they sell and they were looking into it. This person deals with our trucks on a daily basis and was far more aware of what is going on then we are.



I also posted that I called the PA state Police and PA's EPA and was barely given the time of day and none of them wanted any of the stations info or mine.



You talked about all the traveling you have done, have you ever had to sit with your wife, kids and wonder how you would get them home or even to a safe place, barring the gear that you had to leave on the side of the road as most tow rigs can't or wont tow you and your trailer off the HWY. I will gather that in all that travel you have had issues and no matter what you are doing it sucks real bad.



As for bad fuel I have seen it many times when we will send a delivery truck home, granted bad fuel at truck stops are few and far between, never the less it does happen. My repair dealer has mine and one just left with the same issue from different parts of the state.



I am very aware of where I get my fuel, I just sold a Duramax that I had for 8 years and only ever had small amounts of water in the filter when I changed them. I have left many stations due to "bad feeling" about the fuel warranted or not.



I am a very new member and am not savvy in the "Posting" world so by all means tell me if I am out of line.

 

[Wygate]

check my profile photo, sorry that's the largest the system would let me load.
i use a 2 micron fleet guard filter. the filter/separator is in front of my air compressor box and behind the air tank.
i contacted dave smith to post the filter system on their dodge accessory web page.
i didn't ask for a updated price.

I called Dave Smith friday night when this happnedand talked to them about the same sys you talked about. They have had good luck with it. My guess the worlds largest Dodge dealer has all their stuff in one sock! They have been a big help.

 

[HBarlow]

Wygate,

I have been reading this thread from the beginning and sympathizing with you in this bad luck situation up to the point where you made a sharp left turn and began blaming Chrysler/Dodge and demanding a free extreme service fuel filtration system. I consider that unreasonable.

There is no reasonable way that Dodge can be responsible for what happened to your truck and I believe you are completely wrong in expecting Dodge to provide remedy. You filled your truck's fuel tank with dirty water. If you know where and from whom you bought muddy water you should hold that fuel retailer accountable, make your public criticisms about that station, and make demands for that station to provide remedy, not Dodge.

Dodge cannot equip our trucks with systems to prevent any unfortunate or dumb thing an owner can do to his truck. It is fairly common for owners or station attendants to pump a tank full of gasoline into a diesel pickup. The owner never realizes his error until the engine runs terrible, becomes extremely noisy, or shuts down. A friend of mine had that happen. Is Dodge responsible?

How about if someone dumps sand or sugar in another person's tank. Should Dodge prevent that? Of course not.

I regret that you had that problem but it is your misfortune and yours to solve, not Dodge. The new filtration system Dodge has just made available is clearly labeled as intended for extremely dirty operating environment like farming and oilfield use where the trucks are operated extensively on dirt roads.

Thank you for your service to our nation. I am retired Navy and appreciate what you are doing.

 

[Austin Diesel]

Would really like to see a picture of this factory setup and some real pricing other than full retail has "Genos" got this in stock yet? to compare to the other filter setups ?



My truck is a work truck and it can be out in the sticks at any given time off road etc. and i believe that filtration is something you cant have enough of regardless of the application it protects the equipment and your investment.



mullinax have you installed any of these kits yet ?



Austin Diesel

 

[Wygate]

Wygate,

I have been reading this thread from the beginning and sympathizing with you in this bad luck situation up to the point where you made a sharp left turn and began blaming Chrysler/Dodge and demanding a free extreme service fuel filtration system. I consider that unreasonable.

There is no reasonable way that Dodge can be responsible for what happened to your truck and I believe you are completely wrong in expecting Dodge to provide remedy. You filled your truck's fuel tank with dirty water. If you know where and from whom you bought muddy water you should hold that fuel retailer accountable, make your public criticisms about that station, and make demands for that station to provide remedy, not Dodge.

Dodge cannot equip our trucks with systems to prevent any unfortunate or dumb thing an owner can do to his truck. It is fairly common for owners or station attendants to pump a tank full of gasoline into a diesel pickup. The owner never realizes his error until the engine runs terrible, becomes extremely noisy, or shuts down. A friend of mine had that happen. Is Dodge responsible?

How about if someone dumps sand or sugar in another person's tank. Should Dodge prevent that? Of course not.

I regret that you had that problem but it is your misfortune and yours to solve, not Dodge. The new filtration system Dodge has just made available is clearly labeled as intended for extremely dirty operating environment like farming and oilfield use where the trucks are operated extensively on dirt roads.

Thank you for your service to our nation. I am retired Navy and appreciate what you are doing.

Harvy,

We are not on the same page, I guess I have not given all the details. I never demanded them to change the filter sys I asked them. When they said no, I asked why and they would not give me an answer. I am willing to pay the cost of the filter, just not man hours as they are double dipping, the sys is apart, little to no extra labor is involved.



My big issue with Dodge is the safety sys they have in place did not work, No WIF light or any other for that matter ever came on when I was in the truck but the truck was in "limp mode" and only after I shut the truck off and restarted the DPF full light came on. Had this happened I would have drained the water and averted this mess. I was told by 2 of Dodges mech's (2 different dealerships) that the sys can be overloaded and fail (I never posted this info). That is my issue - "they" know there is an issue. As I stated before our best recourse is to make Chrysler aware by using the "800" numbers they have in place, they may not be as aware of this as we may think, this will fix that. My belief is they want to do the right thing, just that it costs tons of money and causes bad PR so they are moving slow.



You are correct that this is my problem until it happens to yet another member. I don't believe if I put gas in it they are in any way at fault, I have seen it too many times with our work trucks and boats and a kid not knowing any better fuel up with the wrong stuff or even put it in the wrong place!



As for the filling station I am letting my INS CO handle that (My guess is the same you have USAA). They have all the lawyers and experts to get the money for the bad fuel repair. I said it before I was very afraid that if I said the wrong thing to the wrong person I would lose any ability to recoupe my money, having intimate knowledge of cases similar being lost due to a statement.

 

[hsmith]

Don't think you are out of line at all. If you don't stand up for yourself in this cruel world you will be in worse shape in the end.

 

[Austin Diesel]

Don't think you are out of line at all. If you don't stand up for yourself in this cruel world you will be in worse shape in the end.

You are so Right !!!!



just like the corvair never flipped over and the pinto never burnt up . And firestone never made bad tires.



Detroit and the bean counters control the purse strings and policy ,kinda like some other bureaucracys.



O yea safety is job one as long as it doesnt cost too much,



Austin Diesel

 

[Scrappy]

My big issue with Dodge is the safety sys they have in place did not work, No WIF light or any other for that matter ever came on when I was in the truck but the truck was in "limp mode" and only after I shut the truck off and restarted the DPF full light came on. Had this happened I would have drained the water and averted this mess. I was told by 2 of Dodges mech's (2 different dealerships) that the sys can be overloaded and fail (I never posted this info). That is my issue - "they" know there is an issue.

Agreed! "They" need to step up and fix it either by putting a functional WIF sensing system in or installing the severe service filter kit! They wouldn't have built the kit if there wasn't a problem.

 

[HBarlow]

Dodge is not responsible for what happened to the original poster's truck and I will be very surprised if they fold. They should not and I guarantee you I would not if I were in the loop.

Dodge cannot protect us from what we do or allow to be done to our trucks. If I dump muddy water in my diesel fuel tank I AM RESPONSIBILE.

Some of you have apparently spent too many years listening to and believing the propaganda media.

Have any of you ever driven a Corvair? I have. They were excellent small cars just like Volkswagens only with six cylinder flat engines. The crap about them being dangerous was one attention-seeking lawyers attempt to gain fame and fortune. The gullible bought it and destroyed the Corvair. Many of you put oversized tires and lift kits on your trucks then rant about Corvairs being dangerous. You know not what you speak of.

Ralph Nader who destroyed Corvair, the news media who whined about it, and the lying trial lawyers who brought us the Firestone tire fraud, are all members of the same political party and all share the same philosophy. It is BS.

Accept responsibility for your own mistakes and make it better. America was not built on "it's someone else's fault. "

 

[Austin Diesel]

Ok , Now my neighbor's daughter was killed in a relativly minor pinto rear end collision and the bumper collasped and punctured the gas tank and she is gone at 17 years of age burned up. She is gone !! Ford denied any negligence in engineering design from a legal standpoint.



All consumers are not perfect, (tire inflation)tread separation, sidewall failure,etc. but when the jaws of life are prying someone you care about or their body from the vehicle it tends to stir up emotion.



i would never buy a fireblown tire ill stick to michelins.



Now the auto companys have never made a perfect vehicle or they would never wear out or break. unforseen happens.



wonder why my service manager said the 10 model dodge comes with these severe filters now if they are not needed? whats 800 a month for sixty months when its in the shop waiting for parts for mickey mouse preventable BS that should be preventable at a minor costing revision.



We have no control over fuel quality at the pumps and it kinda like rolling dice,just lookin at a pump filter sticker now?

The quicky mart is dicey,and money is tight fuel is at 2. 70 a gallon here, but i will install another filter set .



Every Cat, Cummins, Detroit,Volvo,Mann, Mercedes,Atlas diesel engine/industrial,construction,OTR, or marine has a or multiple inline prefilter water separators, before the engine secondary filter, every boat has one for each engine, marine fuel is subject to more condensation due to storage and transport tank issues which is a perfect example why they are installed. to protect equipment from parts failure, Ask any master mechanic or fleet service manager.



Building trucks is all about controlling costs and keeping a competitive price point with the competition not about protecting the consumer, you get what you pay for and nothing else .



Selling parts and labor is keeping the few dealers alive that are struggling in this economy to keep and retain the best qualified mechanics who earn real wages to pay bills . its not there fault. But production designs, cost cutting, accounting affects all vehicle quality longevity and durability it is not a perfect world and attrition is evident.



Austin Diesel

 

[HBarlow]

As I have written many times, I've put 630,000 miles on three Dodges traveling the entire US and Canada with factory OEM components. Never have had a problem of any kind. I never use fuel additives and have never replaced a failed or worn injector. Have never replaced a fuel filter except at regular 15k mile intervals.

All the exotic fuel filter systems are nice but simply not necessary for the great majority of Dodge owners.

If someone operates his Dodge in a very dirty environment Dodge has now made a factory-engineered severe system available. If you need it, buy it.

Few if any who are currently TDR members could afford or would purchase a Dodge if the manufacturer tried to engineer prevention against every posslble mistake into their trucks.

I am responsible for my truck. I chose it, I paid for it, I own it, I maintain it, I repair it.

 

[mgoncalves]

Didn't the guy say he was willing to buy it from Dodge, just not willing to pay any extra labor for install being that they are replacing the system anyways? I guess I don't see how that is trying to make Dodge pay for someones mistake.



I've put many miles on trucks also and have had very few problems, that doesn't mean the system is perfect. A better fuel filter would not cost much more for Dodge to implement and would eliminate many warranty jobs I would think. How many hung injectors could have been avoided with the common rails if there was a 2 micron filter from the factory? We will never know will we?

 

[hsmith]

Ah-hem, xcuse me, but another good reason to keep the old 12 valve. Get some contaminated fuel, replace a $12 filter, keep one as a spare, keep on trucking.

 

[mgoncalves]

No thanks, I'll keep my factory 350 horse, quiet diesel. 12 valve-- blah!

 

[gsbrockman]

No thanks, I'll keep my factory 350 horse, quiet diesel. 12 valve-- blah!

You mean the one that actually builds cab heat within a reasonable time frame during winter months ??? :-laf

 

[mgoncalves]

That too. I work on my brothers 12 valve all the time for him, there is always something that needs adjusting or upgraded and frankly, I think it's a pain to wrench for hours for a little more power here and there.