Banning Pit Bulls

[Cummins Pilot]

Well if your going to flame OTD I'd be willing to take some of the heat. I agree with both the instinct & upbringing on how the dog's temper is. I used to date this girl that lived next door to a fenced in yard that had a rotty. It always barked at anyone that walked by. One day it was loose and came around the fence for both of us. I stepped in front and got down a bit ready to meet this dog head on (I won't run & if I had my 45 I would have fired). It stopped 10ft away growling, it finally left after I think it realized I wasn't backing down. I can't stand agressive dogs. Owners pick the wrong type of dogs and or won't train them as they need to be trained.



OTD you've got collies if I remember correctly don't you? I have a collie/husky, she has the herding tendency with other dogs & loves to pull. Though if I say "that will do" she stops. When I got her at one year old I flipped her upside down, squeezed her paws, grabbed her jaw and all she did was look at me (with a jacket & gloves on). Didn't try to stop me, I said perfect I'll take her. She has been the best dog I've ever had. My first dog was a mutt husky that wasn't very social when you were on his territory. If he wasn't on his land he was fine. Very protective of me.

 

[KBennett]

I will start off by saying that the only dog I have been bitten by is a black lab but I have mixed feelings about pitbulls. As a dog owner I think the responsibility is on our shoulders to train the dog but you may not be able to train the fighting instinct out of a dog. The problem I have with a pitbull is that they seem friendly but if they are in attack mode they are bred to stop when their victim is dead. This may not make them a bad dog and I am sure there are some good ones out there.



My wife works at an animal clinic and I stopped by to see her at lunch today. Out of about 10 dogs that were in the kennels, most were pit bulls. Every one that I approached wagged their tails and let me pet them. There were some other dogs that were not so friendly including a Husky mix (Not pointing a finger, just making a point) There were two Boxers from the same owner that were in for stitches because they had attacked each other.

 

[Champane Flight]

Bull

Just like a gun, the owner should be responsible, not the dog. Our little burg is trying to pass a pitbull ban now. It is mostly people who do not know the breed, and see the papers of attacks by pitbulls. It is not the breed, ANY dog can be made vicious, the thing that dooms the pit, is the fact they have superior biteing power, and hold on to their prey.



Of course that and the fact that the owners do not know what a dog of this power needs to be well rounded. Excercise, lots of it, disipline, lots of it, and love, when warranted. We have a vicous dog law on the book now, and the city has a dog catcher who is afraid of dogs! Lots of good it does... .



Here we are in a city that has no good paying jobs, empty houses everywhere, streets falling apart, and our city council has the gall to bring up a pit ban!

 

[AMink]

I have been a park ranger in urban parks for 17 years now. I see LOTS of dogs. The only ones that have ever tried to bite me were a Retriever mix and a Great Dane. Luckily, I just got slobbered on each time, as the dogs were leashed and the owners yanked. The PB's that I've dealt with have been good dogs with good owners. As mentioned above, there are vicious dog ordinances in most places. Additional laws don't help, just enforce the ones that are there. Our animal control place has lots of PB's and as noted above, are generally happy to see you when you come by. It blows me away that these idiots let these dogs breed like rabbits, then the pups go to AC, hang out behind a gate with a jillion barking dogs. I'd be cranky too! I think that PB's have a bad rap, but unfortunately they have the tools to back it up. Other dogs attack more, but PB's cause the most damage, and the media loves to write/talk about it. It's like those "BIG SUVs". My trucks are bigger than a Suburban, but I don't get any credit! :-laf

 

[mcoleman]

It's the owners not the dogs. I have friends that raise and train pits and you won't find a more loyal and doscile animal when brought up that way. How about we ban Chihuahas they are the most aggressive dogs on 4 feet. Or maybe ban mastifs because they drool on people. Jeeze if everyone banned something because they didn't like it we would have nothing left. Idiots. :-{}

 

[jwilliams3]

It's the owners not the dogs

Tell that to the PIT BULL when he's tearing your LEG OFF!!! :-laf :-laf



The owners aren't the ones biting people. Yeah I agree the owners need to be responsible. But the dogs can be deadly and get a bad rap for a reason.

 

[mcoleman]

So it's the dogs fault that he wasn't properly trained and restrained by his owner? So by that thinking then you would blame guns for killing people and not the owners also right? Why would we expect people to be responsible in todays liberal world anyway.

 

[jwilliams3]

Someone has to pull the trigger with a gun.



Pitbull's can make there own decisions.

 

[mcoleman]

( properly trained and restrained ). Why would we expect people to be responsible in todays liberal world anyway.

If the dog is loose and hurts someone it's the owners fault. If the victim comes into my yard that is posted and fenced it's the victims fault. The dog isn't responsible either way. It can't even read the book that says it shouldn't bite. . :-laf

 

[Loghead]

We own a Rottweiler, so I'm sensititive to this issue, as Rotties are often lumped in with Pit Bulls by ignorant do-gooders who want them banned.

I'll echo what most have been posting; it's the owners, stupid!



When we got Abby, it wasn't like getting a beagle. I wanted a dog that could defend itself and her people. A Rottie doesn't need to be mean to be effective. Abby is the sweetest dog-all breeds considered- that I've personally known of. She thinks she's one of the kids, but woe unto whoever would hurt one of them.



That being said, as the owner, you've got to realize that because of her size and strength, she's potentially dangerous. I'm very sensitive to that. I love the breed and wouldn't want to do anything to bring about its demise.

 

[Sled Puller]

Does anyone have dog bite stats per breed?



Make the license fees about $1000 a pop, for fighting breeds. That will cure alot of the whitetrash from having them. The only Pit Bulls I have seen around here, have a dirt bag holding the leash.

 

[Jong]

The website www.pbrc.net should answer a lot of myths about the breed(s), and I have 2 rescued pit bulls at my house which couldn't be better animals to have. Around people or other animals. And I think a simple spelling test instead of a fee would serve properly to keep the W. T. potential owners at bay :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[Spooled-up]

And I think a simple spelling test instead of a fee would serve properly to keep the W. T. potential owners at bay

Well said!!

I would have to agree completely with the above statement. The wife and I and Diesel (our GSP) are out visiting her parents in PA. They are in a small township with about 20 homes in the neighborhood surrounded by farm fields. The neighbor next door is on welfare and has 2 PB's. I was out in the back yard throwing a tennis ball with a Chuckit and all of a sudden I hear a growling thumping sound. I wheeled around to see the neighbors pit bull charging me! I faced him and yelled and swung the Chuckit at him. He realized I wasn't backing down and ran back toward his yard where his owner came around the corner. She's also on welfare now too (she's about 21 or so and her only disability is stupidity and drug use) NO APOLOGY, and responds to my adrenaline tinged comments with "He won't hurt you. " I disagreed and after a few pointless comments back and forth, I just walked away.

Of course you think of great things to say after the fact and I wished I had pointed out that she probably felt the same way about her 2 previous PB's that had to be shot in her kitchen when they got into a viscious fight, locked onto each other, wouldn't let go, and turned on the mother when she tried to break them up.



I don't blame the dogs as much as I blame the owner like many have said, but the owners don't ever get what they deserve. I'd be in favor of the $1000 fee for the fighting dog ownership and the spelling test in this case.



I also realize that there are many great PB's that are docile and friendly and wouldn't hurt a fly. Once again, it's the few that ruin it for the many.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Touchy subject. We had an attack here a few years ago, that a pit bull attacked and killed a little girl. Dog was fenced in, got out, and killed a little girl playing in her back yard. So , the fence idea and thinking you are not responsible for your dogs behavior is wrong.



Sorry, but I didn't have to train any of my dogs to NOT attack. They probably would help you load the truck if you came in the house. Maybe it is the owner, maybe its not, too. I dont have an answer for that one, but the attacks that have happened around here, most of them were in "packs" ( 2 or 3) and most humans die when it happens. Haven't seen any links to a lab killing anyone, have you?



So, is the problem still the owner, or should the owner be required to "train" their dog to NOT attack. Is it in their blood to hurt , mame, kill? Or is it the natural tendency of the dog to be that way, and we are trying to take it out of them?

 

[GO 4LO]

Alright, I've got several points to make:



1. The 'pit bull' is not a breed of dog. It's more a general physical description of a type of dog having a blocky head, short hair, and muscular appearance. I've seen everything from JRT mixes to mastiffs labeled as 'pit bulls' or 'pit mixes'.



2. The American Pit Bull Terrier was bred to fight other dogs and animals - never to fight human beings. In fact, when in the pit, the dogs were expected to be calm enough that the owners could actually touch the dogs and offer encouragement during the fight. When coupled with the breed's incredibly high pain tolerance, this capacity for docility around humans made the breed an unparalleled companion breed, if animal aggression was a non-issue.



3. The statistics for 'pit bull' bites include over a dozen different breeds as well as mixes that may show little or no resemblance to the APBT. Even when lumped together in such a manner, the statistics show that these breeds have a low number of bite incidents per number of dogs when compared to more common breeds.



4. The backyard-bred 'pits' sold as APBT's today are no longer bred for gameness, pain tolerance, or friendliness to humans as they were in old times. This is not to say the breed is completely ruined - only that it has fallen into the wrong hands and degenerated significantly as a general population. There are still good breeders out there, if you look.



5. Temperament testing shows the APBT to be on par with labs and goldens in terms of aggressiveness to humans. Again, a true gamebred APBT will score significantly better than this.



6. Anybody who feeds gunpowder to a dog is a moron - it does not improve the dogs' fighting ability whatsoever. Neither does raw meat; however, raw diets including meat, bone, and organs in proper proportion are ten times better for a dog than processed kibble (do you know what's in that crap?) and DO NOT make a dog mean. Search for 'prey model' or 'BARF' diet on google.



7. Dogfighting is not what it used to be. In a 'real' dogfight (i. e. old-fashioned fight by cajun rules), dogs rarely die, matches often go for an hour and a half or more, and the purpose of the match is to test not only fighting ability, but gameness - that is, perseverence even when clearly outmatched. The dogs are carefully matched and usually fight a dog weighing within 2 lbs of themselves. The dogs used in this type of match enjoy great diets, lots of exercise, and really enjoy the fighting. All the crap you hear about training the dogs by sicking them on poodles and collies, making them mean with kittens in bags as bait, feeding gunpowder, etc, do not apply to that type of fight. Today's 'street fighting' and ghetto dogfights are a joke - their purpose seems to be to offer the crowd the maiming or death of an animal as entertainment. I do not know the training methods or diets of dogs participating in such matches and do not care to.



8. Banning the APBT or similar breeds is stupid. If your argument is that they bite more than other breeds, then that is wrong, so you have no foot to stand on. If your argument is that their temperament is such that they are generally mean to humans, you are wrong and have no foot to stand on. If your argument is that they have the capability of killing people when they do attack, then I agree. However, so do most breeds. Dogs as small as Pekingese and Cockers have killed babies. Anything from 40-50 lbs on up has the capacity to kill an adult human under the right circumstances. So if you're going to ban a breed because it could kill a human, then you're going to have a long list of breeds to add.



9. Levying a $1k fee against owners of certain breeds is stupid, if the owner has done nothing wrong in the past. Maybe we should also pay an extra grand a year for our trucks since they're bigger than cars and can hurt people in accidents? Maybe we should levy a $1k fee against everyone who owns a gun, or a knife, or a ?



10. Here's my proposal - make new laws for dog ownership in general. Anyone that wants a dog needs to obtain a permit to buy one. Any breed that can grow above 50 lbs (or 40 or 30 or whatever limit you want to set) requires a special permit. As part of obtaining that permit, you must submit to a background check, you must show proof of insurance, and you must attend a training course with the dog. Same as with cc permits. It should also have to be renewed yearly in order to be most effective, IMO.



Chris

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Today: At least it wasnt a little kid !



Nuff said.



http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_264081037.html

 

[Sled Puller]

Chris, you are looking at the situation through rose colored glasses.

Whatever you want to call them, the little buggers attack and KILL people more than any other breed, and we are getting sick of it.





"Hes just a big baby" as he has a little kids arm hanging out of his mouth holds no water, with me.



No foot to stand on, is a poor choice of words, as they tend to chomp them!!!LOL

 

[Champane Flight]

Prove that...

Chris, you are looking at the situation through rose colored glasses.

Whatever you want to call them, the little buggers attack and KILL people more than any other breed, and we are getting sick of it.





"Hes just a big baby" as he has a little kids arm hanging out of his mouth holds no water, with me.



No foot to stand on, is a poor choice of words, as they tend to chomp them!!!LOL

Do you own a dog sleddy?

 

[GO 4LO]

The little buggers you refer to are not a breed - you're talking about a 'type' of dog. Anything with short hair and a blocky head is termed a pit or pit mix. If you work for Channel 12 and a boxer mix or lab mix bites someone, what will you put on the commercials to get people to watch your 11:00 news? "Pit Bull Mix Goes on Rampage!" of course, because it draws more viewers that way.

Anyone that thinks banning the APBT will fix the situation is sadly mistaken anyway. Seriously, how many criminals who own a pit mix are going to give them up because it's against the law? And if they can't buy one, who cares? A GSD, Dobe, or Rott can easily kill a person, too - the average American 'bad guy' will just choose a new breed. That has actually been the general progression in this country - there is always at any time a 'favorite killer breed'. Back in the '60's and '70's, it was the Dobe, then '70's and '80's it was the GSD (as police dogs gained popularity), then pit-types through the '90's until now, and now Rott is climbing the ladder as the 'tough dog' of choice. As long as there are alternatives to the 'pit bull' type of dog, then banning a breed is not going to do anything.

If Muncie, Indiana )), say, has a problem with drunk drivers getting in their big jacked-up Dodge diesel trucks after a night of drinking and then running over and killing people on the trip home, then banning Dodge trucks will not fix their problem. There's alternatives - like big Chevy or Ford trucks instead. Make stiffer penalties for drunk driving, or make it more difficult to get drunk in the first place, or ban all automobiles large enough to kill a person.



Chris

 

[GO 4LO]

Today: At least it wasnt a little kid !



Nuff said.



http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_264081037.html

Quote from the article:



"Porter was cited for harboring dangerous dogs, failure to confine the dogs, and failure to have the dogs licensed.



The fines carry several hundred dollars in potential fines. "



OUCH.

Chris