Banning Pit Bulls

[Champane Flight]

A real killer

In 2003, 42,643 people died and another 2,889,000 people were injured in motor vehicle accidents. This was the lowest on record!







I say we ban cars?

 

[Sled Puller]

No, CF, the ban car/ban gun argument is for your liberal buddies, you can't compare it to dogs.



These stats from your post are quite interesting:

he breeds most often involved in fatal attacks are Rottweilers and Pit bulls.







In the United States, pit bulls make up one to three per cent of the overall dog population and cause more than 50 per cent of serious attacks.





Of the 27 people who died as a result of dog bite attacks in 1997 and 1998, 67% involved unrestrained dogs on the owner's property;

(NO DOUBT HAD IT COMING!!!)

19% involved unrestrained dogs off the owner's property;

11% involved restrained dogs on the owner's property;

and 4% involved a restrained dog off the owner's property.





Of the 27 people who died as a result of dog bite attacks during 1997 and 1998, 67% involved an attack by one dog; 19% involved an attack by two dogs; and 15% involved an attack by 3 or more dogs.





From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences.





READ AND WEEP PB/ROTT LOVERS LMAO

 

[GO 4LO]

Again, 'pit bulls' are not a single breed of dog - they're a dozen or more lumped together. If you want to compare the number of bites from a bunch of breeds lumped together, then look at my post above comparing pit bulls to sled dogs. Data doesn't look so impressive that way...



Chris

 

[GO 4LO]

Interesting question - since Sleddy mentioned it, are there really conservatives fighting for BSL? I just assumed you were all liberal. As a conservative, I want minimal government interference (i. e. don't ban guns, cars, or dogs), and I want people to take responsibility for their own actions...



And why does the gun/car argument not work? Your own statistics show that 86% of attacks involved *unrestrained* dogs. The dogs' not being restrained is clearly the owners' fault. Just as much as if he left his gun unattended and his kid picked it up and shot someone with it, right?





Chris

 

[Sled Puller]

Oh yea still waiting for suggestions on how to control this problem.

 

[Sled Puller]

A dog thinks for itself, a gun/car/bat/knife does not.



I'm not sure why I'm having to explain that?



I don't much care for Malumutes, wolf-dogs or Chows, so going that direction doesn't affect me.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Umm Guys just so ya know, Bill was sayin' that Will started this thread on 07-19-2001, 01:31 AM It isn't a new Ban Idea

 

[Sled Puller]

Tim, who cares? We can argue about any topic, at any time, especially when CF takes the wrong side, like he always do!!!



I read it from begining to end, saw Doc's post, and realized it was old.



As far as the cough question, if its a Pit Bull TYPE of breed( :-laf ), SHOOT IT.

Take any other one to the Vet.

 

[Jong]

Nice...

Nice solution... . what do you do for fun on the weekends, dump puppies out the window of your Ram while you're driving down the highway?

 

[Sled Puller]

I'm sure you'd be the type to say, as the 4 year old has half his face ripped off, that, "My dog never acts this way. It must have been the kids fault. "

 

[jwilliams3]

Hey we might as well let people own Lions and Tigers...

If someone gets bit "it must have been the owners fault"



Not the breed right? :-laf :-laf

 

[Jong]

If you're stupid enough to leave a child unattended with any animal (I don't care WHAT it is) then you deserve to have your face ripped off. But if someone was to try and shoot my dog because of the breed, be expecting to be looking down the barrel of a 12 gauge.

 

[Sled Puller]

But if someone was to try and shoot my dog because of the breed, .

Did anyone say that???

However, I shall use your logic, and agree with you.



We should shoot the stupid people owners of Pit Bulls, and not the dogs!!!! :-laf :-laf

 

[Jong]

Which brings me back to my original point... . stupid people shouldn't own animals... or breed. If you are responsible, you can have just about anything. If not, you should go to jail. Just like driving. You don't let anybody behind the wheel, you have to pass a test to get a license and continue to be proficient to stay on the road. If you do something irresponsible, you lose your ability to drive, and if bad enough, go to jail. You don't ban everybody's ability to drive based on actions of a few irresponsible people. Furthermore, you hear 10x more about any bad instances than you ever hear about the good.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Today: At least it wasnt a little kid !



Nuff said.



http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_264081037.html

SO, JONG, whats your take on this. Owner had a fence, but got out and did damage to another animal. Whats your take on this?



Owner stupid?

 

[Jong]

Don't know any of the specifics... was it a 4ft or 6ft fence? Did the owner accidentally leave the gate open? Something must have happened. I know my dog is always under positive control in a kennel, on a leash, or in my house. I do not leave my dog unattended unless he is in his kennel or crate. These are all parts of responsible dog ownership regardless of breed. You just can't ban or kill off a certain type of dog (or any animal for that matter) just because a certain portion of the population thinks they might have the POTENTIAL to be a problem. Where does it stop? Dobermans, Rottweilers, Bulldogs, Beagles, Chihuahuas? Pretty soon you have no more man's best friend. Most local ordinances state that if any animal kills or mames another person or animal, it must be put down. I understand that. That is why I don't let my dog run free and keep positive control over him around other animals or people. Do research. Did you know pit bulls are used as therapy animals in hospitals? That they were and still are considered "gentleman's dogs" in England? That Petey from "The Little Rascals" was a pit bull? Don't buy into the negative media blitz that can bring anything down.

 

[Champane Flight]

Don't forget Spuds

Irresponsible owners, or people who do not understand the breed. There is another class, its called accidents, poop happens, too bad, so sorry. The first thing I think when I hear of a toddler attacked by a pit bull is, WHERE THE HECK WAS THE MOTHER! You do not leave a toddler outside by themselves! Or playing in the area of a large animal...



Its like this, you have a owner who beats the dog daily, keeps him on a chain with no shelter, sometimes feeds him and waters him. Then when the dog gets loose and hurts someone, we kill the dog? It is worse than gun control. Most Pit bull bans give the right to an officer to walk into your yard and consficate your dog. You have to prove after this point that he has no Pit blood, pay a fine, if he does have pit blood, destroy him, or move him out of town! In Aurora Colo, they destroyed over 100 dogs in a week, over 250 dogs were destroyed in a year... .

 

[GO 4LO]

A dog thinks for itself, a gun/car/bat/knife does not.



I'm not sure why I'm having to explain that?



I don't much care for Malumutes, wolf-dogs or Chows, so going that direction doesn't affect me.

First, regarding the other 'evil, killer breeds', I didn't post those because I thought you liked those breeds but because it's an entirely different group of breeds that is responsible for human deaths. If you want to ban pits, then you can't stop there. So the first order of business is to decide how many human deaths are acceptable per breed? If we say zero, then we've got about thirty breeds to ban (plus extras that are lumped in under umbrella names like 'pit bull', 'sled dog', 'hound dog', etc. ), if memory serves. Plus 200+ more with the capability of killing a person.



The gun/car/bat/knife analogy is relevant because when under proper control, a dog does not have the opportunity to think for itself. I don't leave my dogs alone with children (regardless of whether I have my dogs or a 'pit bull' or a Chihuahua). I don't let them run the streets loose. I don't leave them unattended unless they are properly secured. Etc. In any situation, I am in control. My dogs are fully obedience-trained and will listen to me both on- and off-leash, but I still keep them onleash as an extra measure of control. In these situations, I think for my dogs. Only indoors or when supervised and properly contained do they have the opportunity to think for themselves.



As I said above, in 86% of those cases, the dogs were blatantly out of control (unrestrained). The others don't specify the degree of control or the exact situation. That lack of owner control is the only thing that gives the dog an opportunity to think for itself. It's the same as if someone picked up the gun you left lying in the backyard unattended and shot someone. It's your fault for leaving your firearm in a position where it's outside of your control.



A dog does not have the ability to reason, and neither does a 3-year-old child. When let out the back unrestrained, the dog is no more responsible for killing someone than is the 3-year-old child that picked your gun up and shot his friend. Owners/parents need to take responsibility.



Chris

 

[GO 4LO]

Hey we might as well let people own Lions and Tigers...

If someone gets bit "it must have been the owners fault"



Not the breed right? :-laf :-laf

When under proper control and not being abused, I have no problem with people owning lions and tigers. Proper control in this case is not a leash, because one cannot physically control a big cat in public in that manner. It would also be abusive to keep a big cat indoors or in a 1/4-acre yard. If you've got 100 acres out in the country and have the means to properly contain and *control* the animal, and the knowledge to keep it healthy and give it a good life, then you should be allowed to have them, IMO...



Chris

 

[GO 4LO]

Oh yea still waiting for suggestions on how to control this problem.

Well, I posted before, but I will try to detail my ideas better.



Here's your choices, as I see it:



1. Start holding owners responsible when something happens. No more $200 fines. Punishment should be the same as if you left a loaded firearm unattended, or worse.



2. Ban any breed of dog weighing 40 lbs or more.



3. Make the process of obtaining a 40+ lb dog a bigger pain in the butt. More paperwork, background checks, etc.



Chris