BD's new X convertor

[BRoth]

Good morning!

There have been many very good posts about fluid and mechanical efficiencies. I must say the mathematical equations lost me. Are they real?

Sorry about my childish response in the beginning with the tongue, personal humor.

Back to the matter at hand though.

I believe there has been somewhat of an understanding of testing the fluid coupling on a dyno or on a road test. Either at a set Hp measured on the Dyno or with turbo boost.

There is also an open question about the lock up clutch surface area and type of fiber we use.

We have some pictures of the front cover and clutch so we will provide everyone with a link. (I have not figured out html required to post a picture, I think)

Graphs can blow things out of proportion. When you look at our current graph of the X stator focus on the rpm and the hp. http://www.bd-power.com/ram/product.php?pn=Torque%20Convertors&tt=ram

The 6L graph has been removed but when it was shown the rpm test level started at 2200 rpm. I will repost the 6L graph on our web for a comparison.

The 6L stator was not capable of transferring power at 1700 rpm as the X stator is. The stock convertor is shown on both.


Brian@bd-power

 

[Extreme1]

Cliff-
Unknownanium? Isn't that right next to Unobtainium on the periodic table? #ad

Thanks for interjecting physics to keep everybody honest and helping to dry up the puddles!

It seems as Capitalism has once again come to the rescue. One vendor came up with what is percieved to be the best and backed it up with outstanding customer service. Competetors are forced to either match that level of product and service or exceed it. Who wins? WE DO! It will be interesting to see what the "next level" will bring. (Maybe Dodge would have a ... nah!)

Now if we can get them into a price war!!!


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'94 3500 4x4, 211,000 miles, Never had a cat, Auto w/shift kit (thanks Dave G), 3. 54 Gears, TST #5 plate, 235-85-16s, Rancho 9000s w/remote, Isspro Gauges & Amsoil Air, Oil & Bypass Filters & Lubes, AWOL intake boot.
Punchlist: 14 cm Turbo Housing, Torque Converter & 215 Injectors.
NRA member.
Blue Ribbon Coalition member.
"I am my own performance station"

 

[Bill Kondolay]

First off this is Stefan NOT Bill.

Brian,

We have about the same transmission experience so both of our responces are probably just opinions so here's mine. I have always heard my father tell customers that as you increase your horsepower, your Torque Converter efficiency will drop. As we already know that this happens to the stock TC, Ford TC, Chevy TC, Racing TC's. I read your chart and it says that as power goes up your TC becomes more efficient, doesn't make sense to me. #ad
#ad


Stefan Kondolay
DTT




[This message has been edited by Bill Kondolay (edited 05-07-2001). ]

 

[BRoth]

Stephan

The graph shows 3 different hp levels at 3 different rpm levels. Each rpm level and each hp level represent 3 separate tests.

We have posted both the 6L and the X stator, which shows a total of 6 different tests.

The X graph shown is not our competition 300+ RHP convertor design. Each stator is designed for a particular market.

We will have trucks equiped with both stators at May Madness. There is quite a difference!

A higher hp engine benifits from a stator designed specically for it.


brian@bd-power

 

[Archive]

Hey, I said this before "I AM GLAD I DID NOT BUY AN AUTOMATIC"! Thanks B-D For continueing to improve your products #ad
. Its nice to see even when another company can not be professional #ad
you still are #ad
. It is companies like you who continue with r&d that benefits people like me with other products you sell.
Thanks again B-D. I am looking forward to Dyno Days again, had a great time.


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2001 RAM H. O. 6Sp 2500 SLT 4x4 Quad Cab, 4Wheel Disc, 4. 10 Limited Slip, Fog Lights, Muffler removed, Silence Ring Gone, Autometer Pro Comp 60# Boost & Pyro, Banks High Ram (Red), Cummins Red Valve Cover, K&N RE-0880, Skyjacker 2. 5 lift Class 2, 7218 Dual steering stabilizers, Custom Pro Fab Trackbar (sweet), EGR Flares (nice fit), Centerline Comet III 16x9. 5 with Goodyear MT/R 315/75R16, Smittybuilt stainless nurf bars, ExTang BlackMax tonno, THIS IS NOT A HOBBY, THIS IS AN ADDICTION !!! MAINLINING DIESEL !!!

 

[Archive]

Decision made. I have an X-Converter on order from US Diesel. (BD doesn't take Amex) and life goes on... ... ... . #ad

 

[Diesel Freak]

Originally posted by BRoth:

There have been many very good posts about fluid and mechanical efficiencies. I must say the mathematical equations lost me. Are they real?

yes they are..... they are derived from simple thermodynamic equations and principles.

Boldt's Wagon:
That would be the easy way to do it #ad


I still say loose the slushboxes and get a manual.

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2001 ETH-DEE, Diablo Power Puck, Bosch 275's, Practical Solutions Boost Module and Elbow, LFT Silencer Ring Eliminator, K&N, Straight Piped http://www.mudrunner.sites.cc

 

[Hootguy]

Well now,,,nice flatery for B. D `s new torque,,too bad they couldn`t come up with it on their own,,they had to wait for Bill Kondolay at DTT to do all the work and R&D then copy his work,,,,too bad his work wasn`t patentable,,,but it was unavoidable,,the best come up with the new stuff ,,then the competitors start copying,,,
Well,,too bad BD customers have to wait for Bill Kondolay to improve auto trans technology before they can get it from BD,,
It`s one thing to push your product,,even if copied from someone else,,butin the end it`s customer service that gets people lined up at the door,,,and for that,,nobody beats DTT as expressed by most of the TDR members... .


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blacked out,96 3500,black,ext cab,KMC Slam,chrome aluminum wheels,continuous wheel balancers,Diesel Dynamics fuel plate and AFC kit,16cm housing,Bill Kondolay DTT torque converter and valve body,K&N filter,Mag-Hy-tek transmission and diff covers,Isspro triple pillar gauges,60 gallon transfer tank,Rld topper,

 

[Bob Wagner]

Bill's VB and TC is the Best... Bar None .

HO want to race an auto Ram come on up to Abbotsford July 7-8th...

<font color = Red> Let's get it on ... </font>

[This message has been edited by Bob Wagner (edited 05-08-2001). ]

 

[Dak - BD Power]

Hooter69, you obviously come from Ontario #ad
(I can say that cause I grew up there), I would ask you and all the TDR readers out there if at any one time BillK's 'design', as you call it, was in actual fact his design? If you knew anything about torque convertor design and operation then you would know that the 'design' is basic theory of fluid dynamics and torque multiplication.

Having trouble following? Look in any automotive mechanics text book or any book on the design of a torque convertor and you will see "BillK's design"... this theory has been around for a long time, Bill K took that and modified it or should I say streamlined AND improved it to be more efficient in operation. An EXCELLENT idea, I might add, well done Bill !!! He improved on an idea to allow the customer a better choice other than OEM #ad
#ad


BD has followed those steps and found ANOTHER way to modify the stator but went one step further and improved on the weak link of the torque convertor which is the lock-up clutch. Not too many companies would go the extra mile, at great cost, on design and R&D like BD has, to improve a weak product for the benefit of the Dodge Ram owners.

Finally, I am sure DTT produces quality products and I KNOW that BD produces quality products, so why not keep on improving products and providing quality customer service so that everyone is happy #ad


Vic Daku
BD Warranty/Product Support

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Real BOMBers never get speeding tickets. . just a lot of warnings!

[This message has been edited by TDCanuk (edited 05-08-2001). ]

 

[Archive]

Hey Bob, I will be at Cummins next weekend #ad
. I dont recall badmouthing automatics or you. I think there unprofessional (BillK) ways of doing business on the forums are not right. If you have a problem with my opinion TOO BAD #ad
.

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2001 RAM H. O. 6Sp 2500 SLT 4x4 Quad Cab, 4Wheel Disc, 4. 10 Limited Slip, Fog Lights, Muffler removed, Silence Ring Gone, Autometer Pro Comp 60# Boost & Pyro, Banks High Ram (Red), Cummins Red Valve Cover, K&N RE-0880, Skyjacker 2. 5 lift Class 2, 7218 Dual steering stabilizers, Custom Pro Fab Trackbar (sweet), EGR Flares (nice fit), Centerline Comet III 16x9. 5 with Goodyear MT/R 315/75R16, Smittybuilt stainless nurf bars, ExTang BlackMax tonno, THIS IS NOT A HOBBY, THIS IS AN ADDICTION !!! MAINLINING DIESEL !!!

[This message has been edited by H. O. RAM (edited 05-08-2001). ]

 

[Bill Kondolay]

The very fact that the DTT tc is even being compared to bd' generic version turns my stomach.

Brian,I cannot believe you have seriously thought this through. From a transmission technician’s point of view what you are proposing is so, so, words escape me Mr. Roth, damaging doesn’t quite cover it. But good luck to you sir.

Top fuel, good luck to you I have no doubt in my mind that you will get exactly what you asked for.

Look, here it its in a nut shell you guys, Shanti & I and work 14 hour days 7 days a week to ensure that you get the very best we can offer and what you pay for. Our staff consists of hand picked hard working people who also put in very long hours , we are very proud of the custom engineered steel stator converter we designed for the Dodge ram.

Not Shanti or I or anyone of our staff will ever apologize for the our lack of professionalism as I believe is how it was put,

If the definition of professional means to demonstrate someone else’s product and sell another, we don’t want to be professional

If being professional means manipulating data to sell products , we don’t want to be professional

If being professional means to sell customers whatever they want without care for their application, we don’t want to be professional

If being professional means treating the Dodge ram owners like a bunch of cash cows,
is how I’ve heard them referred to , we don’t want to be professional.

H. O. RAM , how very misguided you are in your beliefs about BD’s R&D, I quit BD the day Piers’s truck left for may Madness with the Suncoast converter in it. Sir, I respectfully suggest that if that's your concept of professionalism and R&D please continue to consider me un-professional. True R& D takes a lot of hard work and a lot of money.

Yes , as Mr. Roth said, he had a lot of fun at May madness last year and is looking forward to doing it to you guys again. If that is your wish , who am I to argue, I have no intention of trying to compete with the excellent marketing skills of Mr. Roth, heres a thought ,

When was the last time you guys tried to drive a chart or graph. Lucky for my customers I don’t sell either charts or graphs I do transmissions and torque converters.

Here’s a little something DTT customers ranging from Lawrence from DD, HVAC, Mopar , Mario, to Joe G, Tom Wolf and too many too name get with the DTT TC, A LIFE TIME WARRANTY ON THE STATOR, EVERY STATOR IS WARRANTIED FOR LIFE whether they have 200hp or 2000hp , we don’t care.

I have never lied to anyone to sell a product, or use someone elses product in my truck and demonstrate it as my own, before Diesel Transmission Technology came to be, Dodge Ram owners were buying was a $30. 00 milled piece of garbage . If exposing the milled stator converter was offensive and unprofessional to some of you,consider this, the industry will never be the same again.

I realize everyone has choices ,I come from the old school, you race what you brung, and you bring your own.

WE ARE VERY PROUD
TO BE INNOVATORS NOT IMITATORS

Bill Kondolay
Diesel Transmission Technology

 

[Mopar-muscle]

is it me or does the picture of the guts of the TC that BD has posted on that DODGE link look alot like the inside of a FORD TC ???? #ad
, EDIT ... same one in the old DODGE TDR ads , issue 31 shows a dodge TC ????

top fuel , i'm a bit surprised , though i don't know you , i have come to get the feeling that most all TDR members try to do their homework before laying down their cash , i know i did ... my point ? ... much like the duramax , the BD convertor to me is an UNPROVEN product , not many , if any , on the road .

yes i may have bought a DTT convertor maybe a bit too soon , but i didn't hear anything bad , and being a drag racer at heart myself , its easy to tell who's shoveling it and who's not ... Bill does not , BD ???????? i can't really say , or can i ?

its too bad the world in general has been ruined by the political correctness police , i have the utmost respect for a person that speaks his mind no matter what the outcome , i live my life in this way , i don't care who i offend , insult , or hurt , don't like what i have to say , they know where the door is .



[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 05-08-2001). ]

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Vic,
Before you decide to insult one of my customers, remember he is not a vendor, you may want to keep one little thing in mind.
With my products all my customers get my complete tech support.

I have a few questions for you, how is the tc clutch applied?

Where does the apply force come from?

Why did Ford engineers simply not just expand their clutch lining? It certainly would have been a lot cheaper than the method they chose.

Why did Allison engineers not simply expand their clutch lining?
It definately would have been cheaper.

Why does any industrial converter simply just not expand their clutch lining towards the inside?

Marketing is a wonderful thing, Vic. I, like the above engineers, while i do not professs to be an engineer, i do underatand why they didnt do it, do you Vic? or do you just think all those engineers are stupid. I consider myself in very good company with them.

You guys have no idea what you are getting your self into.

PS, we have made no secret that the steel stator has been in the drag racing industry for 15 years, we paid the money , did the r&d, and tailored it for the Dodge Diesel.

As you mentioned, Diesel tc manufactures knew of this technology, but the milled stator was cheap, and profitable, could that possibly be why no one did it?

I know why the drag racing industry that has had this steel stator technology for 15 years didnt choose to go with carving the stator out of aluminum like BD is doing.

While it definately would be cheaper, why arent they doing it?

Vic,do some actual R&D, there is a reason why they wont switch, and believe me its not because they have never heard of CNC equiptment. Its the same reason we discarded it as a viable option for the cummins.

Bill Kondolay
Diesel Transmission Technology

 

[Joe G.]

I have to chime in here in Bill's support. (He really doesn't need it from what I read here, but... ) When I say the "best service on the planet" I ain't kiddin'! I'm used to pretty good service from most dealers but I was amazed at how much time and effort Bill took with my problems. As far as the TC is concerned I don't know what % it is, but it sure is a BIG improvement over the stocker. Love the VB and the 2nd gear lockup!!! Nice quick firm shifts without a bang. DTT is the place to get transmission stuff for sure! No one else is even close. So what if he is as subtle as freight train?

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Joe George
Eureka, CA

'95 2500 CC auto 4X4,3. 54,Combo EGT/boost guage,custom switch panel,PacBrake,TST #5,DTT TC/VB,Automatic motorhome steps on both sides,Foldacover hard bed cover,Cummins chrome kit,Black steel grill guard,Front hitch receiver

 

[MCrossley]

Well considering that nobody answered my earlier question I am going to put on my gloves here and state my case (actually just a quick note of my opinion). Since there have been comments on both sides of the fence in regards to customer service; I shall relate my personal experiences.

First off Customers are your bread and butter, they are what make or break you; if you have no customers you have no business. Remember it takes many hundreds of customers to make your reputation it only takes ONE to break it. Mr. Roth you and I have had our differences (those being about the size difference between Texas and Road Island) I had taken technical issues to you with the expectation of warranty support, instead I got called a liar among other things. Now that situation is past history and me the customer still sits here SCREWED with a product (Torqloc) that is a total POS that I can’t even give away let alone sell as you suggested. But I will stop there with that as I said that is history.

What I am getting at is the many customers on this board and off that have trusted your products and marketing only to get in most cases a piece of garbage. And yes there are some customers who are very happy with you and your products and I think that is great; I am not saying all are unhappy but many are. About the only exception to that is your E-Brake; I think those are nicely made high quality components. I have to say you are great at marketing.

Now lets go to Bill; yes as Joe G. has stated is as subtle as a freight train well I for one like that, I don't like being patronized and make to think that I am ignorant or stupid, as you in so many words suggested that I was at December Dieselfest. Bill puts his money where his mouth is and will tell you ALL factors of his product including the downsides. Also Bill has to be the only vendor of his kind who will take the time out of his day (or night) to sit down at his desk get on the phone and talk to any customer for as long as it takes, he has talked with me and many others for numerous hours both before and after my installations of his products, for questions comments suggestions what ever the case may be.

I agree with all of the other DTT customers that Bill has provided the Dodge Ram owners with a far superior product (and yes I agree that technology changes and that you will come to speed with it maybe with this X-Converter time shall tell), but if you plan on keeping any customers at all you might think twice how you treat them. Myself and way too many other customers have been treated poorly by BD as a company and shall never return there for any other products.

I am sorry for the long post everyone and please do not think that I am just a arrogant a$$, I try very hard to help out my fellow TDR members both local and not; and hate to see them buy into a marketing ploy for a product that may or may not be worth the expense. I do hope Brian that your new converter is a success, if it is it brings competition to the market and keeps Bill on his toes. I mean you no personal disrespect however I do not agree with your business tactics and yes I do know that they make you lots of money and that’s great but look at it from the customers point of view.

FLAME AWAY BOYS, I CAN HANDLE IT I THINK #ad



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TAZ... 2001 2500 SLT+ 4X4 Auto ETC Cummins, LSD 3. 54,Quad Cab, Long Bed, Agate Leather, White/Driftwood Exterior, Sliding rear window, Camper Special Group, Towing Group, Cab clearance lights,SPA-Technique Digital Dual Gauges (Pyro/Boost, Trans pressure/temp) Aux. Backup lamps. BNM 5th Wheel Hitch, Additional Body Molding on Bed. Line-X bed-liner. DTT's TC & VB, Pac Brake w/ DTT Smart Controller, Power Edge, Edge EZ, Grover Air Horns, P. S. High Idler, RV 275 Injectors.

2000 32' Aljo Triple Slide 5th Wheel.

Ram-Taz

[This message has been edited by MCrossley (edited 05-08-2001). ]

 

[Bud Fox]

Why don't you guys bring the boxing gloves to May Madness (lol). Is it true that you guys are basically right down the street from each other(BD and Bill)??

 

[Dieselnerd]

Let me just make a comment about larger lockup clutch surfaces. I had a long discussion with a very reputable transmission shop that builds converters for dragsters, tractor pulls as well as converters for trailer towing and other applications. He stated that they had tried larger clutches up to 75 sq. inches. Stock Dodge by the way is 35 sq. inches if I remember right. He told me that under strict controlled tests in a machine that locked up the clutch and then applied torque until the clutch slipped, the 75 inch clutch slipped at the same torque as the 35 inch! Reason: At the same applied PRESSURE, the friction per sq. inch was less over the larger clutch surface and therefore it slipped at the same torque. He came to the conclusion that the size of the clutch is not as important as what it was made out of. (said Dodge OEM material was as good as any) He also said the design of the stator and how fast the converter spun up to stall speed and provided good torque multiplication was more critical. He is aware of DTT torque converters and said that while he has never tried one on a vehicle, he could see from pictures he saw of the stator that it should work very well and be as efficient as anything he has seen.

 

[John]

Originally posted by H. O. RAM:
If you have a problem with my opinion TOO BAD

Maybe if you knew more about the subject matter and background of this thread you would have a different attitude and opinion. #ad


..... ignorance #ad


BTW, I'll race that cream puff lifted Ram of yours ANY d*mn day... my DTT modified transmission will torch your NV5600! Put that in your pipe and smoke it! And if you don't like that you can KMA! Capiche?

#ad
#ad
#ad
#ad


..... maybe I'll put a bumper sticker on my bumper so you can have something to read as you are following me down the track... ... "SEE YA"



[This message has been edited by John (edited 05-09-2001). ]

 

[Joe G.]

One thing for sure this place can get fired up once in a while. I really doubt that Bill has pi$$ed off any customers as bad as MCrossley is. Dieselnerd, your post relates directly to Bill's question: "Where does the apply force come from?" Very interesting. I guess we know who the real transmission guy is. Transmission stuff is not cheap so for these beasts DTT is the place to get the right stuff for your money!