2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Borgsen Steering Shaft can kill you

[DCreed]

had a drag car that the headers wrapped around the steering shaft. broke a motor mount on a wheels up launch and jammed the steering AFTER the boost spiked! think quick!

 

[DonTX]

Well, you only need 9 more, I have quite a few hours RIDING in a C46, but then I am 70 years old too.

Single engine Otter on floats. Things get interesting when it swallows a valve. Watching raw avgas pouring out the stack while trying to find a lake to put it down on does focus one's attention. Kinds like no steering at 65 mph..... Then there was the C-130 that #1 froze on in full pitch takeoff power at 35' off the runway in Nam'. You do land VERY quickly!

Bet there are not 10 people on this site that ever rode in a C-46, it never got the fame of the Dakota but was/is still a neat bird.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Did you forget to set the slide bearing with LOCK collar underneath the rubber boot? Mine came with such a piece, and once install is done you simply slide it up under the rubber boot, and tighten a set screw on it, so the shaft cant collapse.

HMMmmmmm - I don't get it - IF you set a locking screw that PREVENTS the steering shaft from collapsing as it is designed, that means that any random, incidental flexing between the cab and frame will cause any expansion/contraction to then be applied to either the steering box or the steering wheel assembly - eventually causing one or the other - or both - to fail...



That sliding joint is there for a purpose, and locking it up isn't really a good idea...

 

[MMeier]

Did you forget to set the slide bearing with LOCK collar underneath the rubber boot? Mine came with such a piece, and once install is done you simply slide it up under the rubber boot, and tighten a set screw on it, so the shaft cant collapse.

Is this only on the HD double jointed shaft or... ? Getting ready to get one for the '93.

 

[CumminsFarmer]

I bought the replacement shaft for the '94-02 pickups. Not the heavy-duty one. The slide collar could be an update from older versions, mine was purchased about 2 weeks ago. To Gary, I locked my collar at the base of the rubber boot, not up tight against the slip joint. It allows about 3/8" movement, at a GUESS as I sit here at the computer. But I made sure that wasnt enough for it to slip off the steering wheel end.

 

[klaybus]

I recieve mine Monday (box & shaft) so I haven't had a chance to look at it yet so ignore my ignorance... . Could you tack-weld the shafts together after tightening all of the set screws to prevent the shafts from moving? Just shooting from the hip here.



Thanks,

Clay

 

[monkeyman]

I have PS Stainless and had a similar experience at low speed, hex nut loosened up and slipped off / I used red lock tite now, that was three years ago.

Rick

 

[fest3er]

I recieve mine Monday (box & shaft) so I haven't had a chance to look at it yet so ignore my ignorance... . Could you tack-weld the shafts together after tightening all of the set screws to prevent the shafts from moving? Just shooting from the hip here.



Thanks,

Clay

You may want to practice your aim.



The shafts need to slide because the frame flexes a little in relation to the cab/firewall. It may not be more than a few millimeters, but the shafts do slide. If they don't, there'll be a lot of pressure on the two ends.



After 6 years or so, my Flaming River shaft stopped sliding (slipping). It always loosened the joint on the steering gear and leaving slop there. I finally put the OEM shaft back on last fall. I had to cut the upper joint off because the set screws had rusted in place and were not ever going to be loosened. Actually, to remove the Flaming River shaft, I had to remove the entire steering column, down to the steering gear, from the passenger compartment. That, of course, made it easy to cut the upper joint off.

 

[ChrisOlson]

Hello

I would have to ask, of all the Borgensen steering shafts out there how many other failures have we seen on these shafts, The members here are not know for their bashfullness or withholding their opnions. I have one and have checked all the bolts it did make a difference as to the OEM shaft. I am not sure the sky is falling quite yet on the borgenson shaft. I do not like the way borgenson treated you however and I am glad to hear you are safe.



my 2 cents



chris

 

[rootmanslim]

While I appreciate the responses, the basic problem is in the design. There is no "belt and suspenders" in the locking mechanism. Depending on an allen screw and a locknut to secure a critical component is just not sufficient. You could not use this system on a Piper Cub and meet FAA specs. If this system were on a factory system it would be subject to a safety recall by DOT. The fact that they have added the "failsafe" piece to avoid the steering wheel end falling off says more than I could that they have recognized the design fault and are putting a bandage on it. The CORRECT fix would be to use proven aircraft technology and safety wire the allen screw so it could not unscrew. Until you've been rolling down the road at 60 mph with no steering control you can't really appreciate the thrill.
The stock steering shaft combined with a Luke's Link and Solid Steel Dodge truck steering stabilizers (SolidSteel. biz - Home of the Dodge Steering Stabilizer) have fixed all my issues with SAFETY paramount.

 

[bboxall]

The Borgeson steering shaft is a good product but as a mechanical engineer I was very disappointed at the set screw retention system when I installed mine. It would not cost that much more to slit one side and use a bolt like the OEM steering shaft hubs. That is why the column shaft and steering box input shafts' are dished out amid the splines is for the shank of the hub bolt to retain the hub even if loose.



Glad no one was hurt and you didn't tear up your truck.

 

[SMorneau]

Its been a long time since I installed the borgeson in my 96 but it seems like I was directed to drill a shallow hole for one of the set screws on each end of the sliding shaft where it connects to the joints, but I don't recall if I was directed to drill a shallow hole on the lower steering column shaft or steering gear shaft. I do recall using locking compound and shaft locking compound on it when I put it together. I also used long extensions and a ratchet to tighten the crap out of the set screws from underneath.
The shaft has been out about 4 times and it was tight each time it has been removed.

 

[rootmanslim]

As I see them on all the car shows being used in custom builds, I'm sure they work in 2WD applications on normal roads, even given their design shortcomings.
Until you drive 1000s of miles on USFS washboard dirt or gumbo roads in WY, ID, MT etc. , hauling a horse trailer and carrying a slide in camper, you can't really appreciate how bombproof anything you put on your Ram has to be.
If I can't put it in a Piper Cub, I'm not going to put it in my truck and end up in the bottom of a very deep canyon, just as the Piper would end up splashed on a mountainside.

 

[rootmanslim]

Damn thing (still incorrectly engineered) has shown up again in the new TDR as a "fix" for 2nd gen trucks. DON'T use it, it can easily kill you !

 

[mpaulson]

I have the OEM shaft, but have a Borgsen box and they have a little adapter sleave that converts the input shaft on the box to fit the OEM steering shaft and the adapter is held onto the input shaft also with two set screws and jamb nuts. I put this on about a year ago and that joint concerned me then, and now even more so!!!! I will be checking them at every oil change.

Thanks,

 

[Cosmo]

Damn thing (still incorrectly engineered) has shown up again in the new TDR as a "fix" for 2nd gen trucks. DON'T use it, it can easily kill you !

Do you have proof that they can easily kill you? Have you considered the ramifications of getting slapped with a libel suit? Are you sure it wasn't installer error? I ran one for years on my 1st gen W250 without dying. The guy I sold it to didn't die in the last 4 years either.



While I do agree with you that the design could be easily improved - they made it a simple bolt on modification that improves feel. Grab a drill and improve on their design if you want - run a hole through the shaft and use a through bolt, or a cotter key.

 

[rootmanslim]

Yeah, Cosmo, why don't you hire an attorney and come to WY and sue me ? Oops guess you forgot a minor point of law, you have "no standing" in the case, now do you.



You might notice the folks who make the "killer steering shaft" have not made a peep.

They know damn well it is badly designed and would never be approved for use in a Piper Cub, not to mention many tons of truck, trailer horses AND people hauling @ 50mph through a twisty road with a 10-50' drop off BEFORE you land in the river.



Running a hole through the shaft is a shadetree fix that only weakens the shaft more and puts your life in the hands of a small bolt and nut.



It's a POS and all I'm trying to do is avoid some other poor soul who lacks my incredible luck, in its failing where it did, from ending up on a slab.



Finally, IF, you upgrade to a steering box locator (Solid Steel), change the shaft every 25,000 miles and add a Luke's Link there is no reason to use this "thing".



Suggest you drive highway 191 from Jackson (NOT Jackson Hole) WY to Pinedale, WY and see how many places you might survive a 100% loss of steering control.



This might help you see the light.

Upper Hoback Canyon - Wyoming - Map and Area Photos

 

[Cosmo]

You're trying to "protect people" from a product "that" seems to have only ever failed you. I'm trying to protect you from getting sued over your "comments. "

If one person has a total failure of a specific part, does that make the product bad? Or does it make it an anomaly? Or does it bring into question the quality of workmanship by the installer?

 

[rMetzger]

If your standard is "... if it won't go in my Piper... " you need to remove the Cummins.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

You're trying to "protect people" from a product "that" seems to have only ever failed you. I'm trying to protect you from getting sued over your "comments. "



If one person has a total failure of a specific part, does that make the product bad? Or does it make it an anomaly? Or does it bring into question the quality of workmanship by the installer?

Well Said!!!!!!!!!!!