brake controller

[SRehberg]

I know a lot of discussion has occured regarding Prodigy & the Jordan controllers, but is there still the old conventional hydraulic actuated type still out there? Seems to me they offer the best in braking by being proportional, unaffected by angle etc. From what I've read, they pretty much lost favor due to the liability of tapping into the brake lines ahead of ABS etc.



Anyone make these and is there any members using one if they are available?

 

[Casey Balvert]

No. They are incompatible with braking systems built in the past few years. ABS also complicates the issue. Timers, decelerometers and mechanically actuated variable resistors are about your only choices.



Casey

 

[SRehberg]

I was afraid of that, they worked pretty well. I thought it would still work by tapping in at the master cylinder ahead of the ABS but if they aren't available, then so much for that.







As someone on this site said: "I support the troops, but not necessarily the commander in chief. "

 

[klenger]

I thought I heard that someone was working on an electronic controller with a hydraulic sensor. Sounds pretty cool.

 

[C Schomer]

I wanted one of the old hydraulic controls so bad, I got one out of a junkyard, cleaned it up and checked it out. Then I chickened out at the last minute and pitched it. A friend contacted the mfgr of that new hydraulic unit. He said to expect $300 or more when it's out. Craig

 

[klenger]

$300 for a brake controller seems expensive. $300 to stop a 10,000 lb trailer behind you while decending a 10 mile 7% grade at 65 MPH seems cheap.



I think that a hydraulic sensor electronic brake controller would give all the benifits of the Jordan, without the hastles of the cable adjustment. Of course, installing the sensor would be some work, but once it's in, everything else would be easy.

 

[TowPro]

I used to install Hydraulic units back in the 70's. Probably did around 100 of them for the Horse crowd.



I run the Jordan, and have installed it 2 times (2 different trucks) in the past 4 months, and I feel its much easier to install then the old Hydraulic units.



Really there is no cable adjustment on the Jordan, Just hook the cable up and that's it. The only adjustment is on the front.

Originally posted by klenger



I think that a hydraulic sensor electronic brake controller would give all the benefits of the Jordan, without the hassles of the cable adjustment. Of course, installing the sensor would be some work, but once it's in, everything else would be easy.

 

[RMcCulloch]

Originally posted by TowPro

I used to install Hydraulic units back in the 70's. Probably did around 100 of them for the Horse crowd.



I run the Jordan, and have installed it 2 times (2 different trucks) in the past 4 months, and I feel its much easier to install then the old Hydraulic units.



Really there is no cable adjustment on the Jordan, Just hook the cable up and that's it. The only adjustment is on the front.

Did either of these installations occur on an '03 with the Power Pedals?



If so, is there a "gotcha" to look out for?



[My Jordan is enroute. ]

 

[TowPro]

Here is a quote from Jordans Message site (you may have already read it)



In fact, the 2003 Dodge with adjustable brake pedals is the easiest of all vehicles with this option. While Chevrolet and Ford must be measured for brake throw between no brakes and panic stops the Dodge bracket that we have designed precludes this adjustment. In that respect, the Dodge installation is the easiest of all.



No I have never done an adjustable peddal setup, but if you have problems call Jordan, sounds like he has already covered this one.

 

[Blakers]

I'm still trying to figure out where to put the Jordan in my 03. The more I look, the confuser I get! I don't want to use up the upper cubby hole as it's a good place for a cell phone or pistol, so the knee bolster area is the only other option I can see. Has anyone mounted them where the ash tray is?



I think Jordan should consider using a TPS sensor kind of set up instead of the cable. The TPS could be mounted right to the brake pedal.

 

[RMcCulloch]

Originally posted by Blakers

I'm still trying to figure out where to put the Jordan in my 03. The more I look, the confuser I get! I don't want to use up the upper cubby hole as it's a good place for a cell phone or pistol, so the knee bolster area is the only other option I can see. Has anyone mounted them where the ash tray is?



I think Jordan should consider using a TPS sensor kind of set up instead of the cable. The TPS could be mounted right to the brake pedal.

The cable IS the BPS [Brake Position Sensor] connection - it connects directly to the brake pedal.



The actual BPS is inside the controller.



As stated in another thread, I wound up putting mine on the knee bolster just to the right of the pedal adjustment switch.

 

[Eric_77]

Wrong, there is a hydraulic pressure sensitive brake controller available. I have two, in my 96 and 03 trucks. Here is link to Master brake the makers of the brake smart controller. They are not cheap about $400 but work excellent identify number of axles and miswiring, and loads of other info.

 

[Ladders]

Does the cable goto the brake PEDAL or to the mechanism that the pedal operates (on the adj pedals)?



SOTSU!!

\\BF//



EDIT: just saw the answer in the other Jordan thread.

 

[HBarlow]

SRehberg:



I agree exactly with the wording in your original question posting. I have not used a Jordan but have used several brands of electronic "ramp" style and pendulum style controllers. I have always stopped the trailer but the overall experience, based on more than a hundred thousand miles of towing, has been disappointing to state it politely.



I installed a new old-fashioned Kelsey-Hayes hyraulic-electric brake controller like you inquired about in my previous truck, a 1994 Ford F-250 with rear ABS brakes. It worked perfectly and provided exactly the modulated braking you described in your post.



Kelsey-Hayes, now Hayes-Lemmerz, halted production of the K-H controller because of unease by auto manufacturers and installers created by lawyers and plaintiffs, not due to any fundamental incompatibility with tow vehicles. The hydraulic brake controllers displace such a tiny volume of brake fluid they will work fine with even the new 4 wheel ABS equipped trucks.



I have two of the old Kelsey-Hayes controllers. The only reason I haven't installed one of them in my Dodge was until recently I couldn't find a source for a brake tee. Recently, the friendly folks at BrakeSmart in Dallas identified the NAPA part number for the tee and I now have one.



I've been on the road and am leaving again this afternoon or tomorrow but in the near future I will either install an old K-H brake controller or one of the new (pricey but appealing) controllers manufactured by BrakeSmart. I may just take a deep breath and buy one of BrakeSmart's new hydraulic-electronic controllers on my next trip through Dallas.



Harvey

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Originally posted by TowPro

I used to install Hydraulic units back in the 70's. Probably did around 100 of them for the Horse crowd.



I run the Jordan, and have installed it 2 times (2 different trucks) in the past 4 months, and I feel its much easier to install then the old Hydraulic units.



Really there is no cable adjustment on the Jordan, Just hook the cable up and that's it. The only adjustment is on the front.

I'll second everything that TowPro said. I've installed a bunch of controllers for customers and myself since 1970. The only problems with the hydraulic controllers were occasional leaks and people that couldn't get the air bleed out of the lines under the dash. I might have still used one if I had it but I just put a Jordan in my spare truck for a 3600 mile trip in the Rocky Mnts.



The Jordan worked flawlessly. I now have more confidence in it then any controller that I've every used ( no I don't sell them or own stock in the company ) Larry

 

[SRehberg]

I have a old hydraulic Kelsey-Hayes controller laying on the work bench that I have kept all these years. Is there anything that age would do to them that would make it unuseable? The one thing I didn't keep was the resistor block that is sometimes needed (i. e. looks like springs on a board with different tap points).



I now have a Tekonsha Voyager which in my opinion is not very good.

 

[HBarlow]

SRehberg:



I don't think there is much that goes wrong with those simple and reliable old K-H controllers. I suppose a seal could dry or crack and create a hydraulic fluid leak but I'd bet it is fine if it has been sitting inside for a long period of time rather than exposed to heat, dirt, moisture, etc.



I've got two of those new-old stock adjustable brake resistors that use the spring wire like a screen door spring. I think one is still in the original package, the other is on the firewall of my Dodge. If you get to the point you want or need one I'd probably sell the new one. If you're pulling a heavy trailer you won't need or want the adjustable resistor, you'll want full 12 volts to your trailer brakes.



I sent a letter with a list of questions to Hayes-Lemmerz about four years ago. An engineer returned my call and answered my questions. Much of what he told me he wasn't interested in putting in a letter but I made notes as he spoke. He told me the controller displaces only a tiny amount of brake fluid, not enough to effect ABS circuitry and he said there was no reason they couldn't be used. It was lawsuit mania that killed the product. One of the problems he mentioned was the difficulty in finding a suitable tee fitting to fit current trucks. He told me a big RV dealer in Canada, Can-Am RV, still offered them. I communicated with them but found a fitting locally for the Ford I had then.



Harvey

 

[SRehberg]

Thanks for the great information; did you contact the people at Ford for the fitting, or did you get the thread types etc from the people in Canada? I haven't looked that far yet to see what type of fitting is needed. The old ones were simple, just a regular tee from the auto parts store, so I guess these newer master cylinders use something more exotic. It is understandable why the engineer didn't want to put his thoughts down on paper, he would probably be looking for a new job if it got out. It's a shame all these darn (read nice here) lawyers can ruin everything that they get their hands on. It'll eventually kill any kind of adventurism by manufacturer's for new products. I won't go there on my soap box, but you understand.



I'll check out what fitting I have, but any help on sources is appreciated.

 

[HBarlow]

SRehberg:



Sorry I couldn't reply sooner. I just returned home yesterday afternoon from a two-week journey to Elkhart, IN to attend a silver Avion rally.



I can't remember now but I think the folks at CanAmRV may have told me what to buy and I got a suitable Tee fitting from NAPA for my now-retired Ford. I recently bought one for my Dodge from NAPA. The challenge is that many of the newer trucks use metric fittings on the brake lines while the outlet that feeds the brake controller is standard or SAE thread.



If you go back to Eric 77's post and then to Brake Smart's website (the manufacturer who makes the new hydraulic-electronic controller) and call them, they'll tell you what Tee fitting you need. If you have an '01 or similar truck e-mail me and I'll get the NAPA part number for the one I bought.



Harvey

 

[SRehberg]

Thanks for the information, I can see where the problem comes in with the different threads. My truck is a '96, so I don't know if it's the same master cylinder or not. I'll try the Brake Smart people and see what they can tell me for a fitting. I tried e-mailing them before, but never got a response, so this time I'll try the good ol' telephone.



I dug out my old controller this last weekend, and it looks like new, so I'm ready to try it. I sure don't like the Voyager by Tekonsha I have, so this will probably be a big difference.