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Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Building a Bolt Action
- Thread starter CBlack
- Start Date
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BIG,
I dont believe Gail McMillian is alive, any more? You said that he was a J**K? Never met the man.
Looking at an AICS for a long action M-700 Remington?? May go back to an H-S? we'll see. Right now just trying to get time to fit up a barrel to a receiver!
GregH
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/28...mington-700-long-action-300-winchester-magnum
I dont believe Gail McMillian is alive, any more? You said that he was a J**K? Never met the man.
Looking at an AICS for a long action M-700 Remington?? May go back to an H-S? we'll see. Right now just trying to get time to fit up a barrel to a receiver!
GregH
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/28...mington-700-long-action-300-winchester-magnum
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Placed an order for a stock, not in stock! not a problem how long a wait? 6 weeks. called at 8 weeks and still on back order another 3 weeks. called back in 4 weeks. WE HAVE NO RECORD OF YOU SENDING US ANY CHECK AND WE NEVER HEARD OF YOU. Went to a Dealer gun show in LA. Went to their stand at show. Presented him with canceled check PROOF ENOUGH? C**K S***Ker? got in MY FACE NO PROBLEM!!!! Turned over to a Guido GOT MY CHECK BACK AND AN A** KISSING to call off Guido. AZ wasn't that far away from CA funny how his memory GOT BETTER A** H**E
Update...
Got to thinking and looking at options...
I can get a Remington 700 . 308 with "tactical" barrel for $680 at Bass Pro. Figured I'd buy that and a barrel for a 6. 5 at ~$450. Total cost would be less than $1200 minus scope.
Not too bad a deal. Comes with a Hogue stock (which can be changed out later).
Thoughts?
Got to thinking and looking at options...
I can get a Remington 700 . 308 with "tactical" barrel for $680 at Bass Pro. Figured I'd buy that and a barrel for a 6. 5 at ~$450. Total cost would be less than $1200 minus scope.
Not too bad a deal. Comes with a Hogue stock (which can be changed out later).
Thoughts?
What make barrel? Who chambered it? Do you have the tools to swap out and re-index a Remington barrel?
A spare prefit barrel is a good idea, But it is not a swap in-out unless the barrels are fit together after the action has been trued and the lug replaced. IMHO, you would be better off, just shooting that . 308 until you get tired of it, or shoot it out. Then take it to a gunsmith and have the receiver trued, new thicker lug and a set of matched barrels fit and set up on your receiver with the lug pinned.
GregH
A spare prefit barrel is a good idea, But it is not a swap in-out unless the barrels are fit together after the action has been trued and the lug replaced. IMHO, you would be better off, just shooting that . 308 until you get tired of it, or shoot it out. Then take it to a gunsmith and have the receiver trued, new thicker lug and a set of matched barrels fit and set up on your receiver with the lug pinned.
GregH
McMillan WILL NEVER SEE ANY MONEY FROM ME AGAIN. That guy is a ***** ** ****** and thinks it dont STINK.
I have spoken with them at the shot show in Vegas, and the lady had a ton of knowledge and was very helpful... . I would not think they would be a bad company to deal with... . but who knows better, than a recent customer... ... . Big did you recently deal with them???
Mr. Black,
I see your first post you say the use of this new bolt gun is going to be for Target Shooting and Benchrest only and that you don't hunt. So you are needing a rifle for that type of shooting. There are a few different types of just Benchrest Shooting. There is Point Blank shooting shot at 100 Yds, there is Long Range Benchrest Shot at distances of 600 ( mid range) and a 1,000 Yds (long Range). There is also another type of shooting done from the bench called VFS (Varment For Score) this is usually shot at 300 yds buit some shoots are dome at 200 yds as well. There are sevral other dicsplines as well that however should give you an idea of what is out there.
If you just look at these three types of Benchrest shooting your original idea of a . 308 has no place in that type of shooting. Point Blank is dominated by a cartridge the 6 PPC, groups with this cartridge rountinly are measured in the tenths of an inch. The smallest group ever shot and the world record measured for a 5 shot group is . 252" that is taking into account the bullet size of . 243" thus making this group a . 009". Pretty good shooting HUH? This type of shooting demands a very accurate rifle, and a shooter able to hold that well, and most importantly reload that well. The 6 PPC is never preloaded either, all of the loading done in this type of precision shooting is done at the range and under the conditions of the day or sometimes hour and minutes.
Long Range Benchrest is another great game and one that I have shot for many years. I try and shoot as many 1,000 yd competition as I can in any year. All of my Long Range benchrest rifles have a barrel chambered in the 6. 5X47 Lapua as well as a couple of cartridges that on those windy days will shoot a little closer to the wind, these games are all about the wind Mr. Black.
The rules for all of these games are different as well, Point Blank has very limited rules pertaining stock design and weight of the rifle including Stock, Barrled Action, Scope and rings another words the complete rifle. Long Range Benchrest has its own rules as to rifle weight and stock design. You will need to take this into consideration if and when you ever decided to shoot in some form of a match, even if that is a friendly local club match. I believe that in all probability you will one day want to see how you fair against other folks.
Target and Benchrest Shooting are all great games I would certainly encourage you to get out and shoot. It doesn't have to be expensive, expense will be determined complettly by just how accurate do you want to shoot.
A realistic budget for a really nice and competitive rifle without optics could certainly be in the $2,000 to $2,500 dollar range, that would buy you a very nice Custom Action (used) and all new components from there on out. Today we have the choice of many very fine custom actions. Almost all of them are clones of the Remington 700, but built to a level of precision Remington will never be able to achieve. Jerry Stiller ( I noticed your mention of buying a Stiller Action) is a great guy and a fine builder, however I personaly know of at least 5 people who have had Stiller Actions on order for over two years with no hope from Stiller of when they will even start back into production ( Stiller had a very big Govt contract). But there are many other fine actions Bat is one and almost any model number Bat Action can be in your hands in Three days as there are a few stocking dealers for these custom actions, Farley is another very good action, Barnard another, Panda, Surgeon, and this list goes on and on.
Right now on Benchrest Central http://benchrest.com/class/ in there classified's there are 85 benchrest Rifles for sale, Both Point Blank and long Range. They are in just about any accurate cartridge you can imagine with prices ranging from a low of $1,200 to a high of $4,000 surely somewhere in that price range is a good rifle for almost anyone!
I am going to try and post a couple of pictures of some of my match rifles, all of these are Long Range Benchrest or another discipine I didn't talk about F/Class this type of shooting is known as Belly Bencrest.
Roland
I see your first post you say the use of this new bolt gun is going to be for Target Shooting and Benchrest only and that you don't hunt. So you are needing a rifle for that type of shooting. There are a few different types of just Benchrest Shooting. There is Point Blank shooting shot at 100 Yds, there is Long Range Benchrest Shot at distances of 600 ( mid range) and a 1,000 Yds (long Range). There is also another type of shooting done from the bench called VFS (Varment For Score) this is usually shot at 300 yds buit some shoots are dome at 200 yds as well. There are sevral other dicsplines as well that however should give you an idea of what is out there.
If you just look at these three types of Benchrest shooting your original idea of a . 308 has no place in that type of shooting. Point Blank is dominated by a cartridge the 6 PPC, groups with this cartridge rountinly are measured in the tenths of an inch. The smallest group ever shot and the world record measured for a 5 shot group is . 252" that is taking into account the bullet size of . 243" thus making this group a . 009". Pretty good shooting HUH? This type of shooting demands a very accurate rifle, and a shooter able to hold that well, and most importantly reload that well. The 6 PPC is never preloaded either, all of the loading done in this type of precision shooting is done at the range and under the conditions of the day or sometimes hour and minutes.
Long Range Benchrest is another great game and one that I have shot for many years. I try and shoot as many 1,000 yd competition as I can in any year. All of my Long Range benchrest rifles have a barrel chambered in the 6. 5X47 Lapua as well as a couple of cartridges that on those windy days will shoot a little closer to the wind, these games are all about the wind Mr. Black.
The rules for all of these games are different as well, Point Blank has very limited rules pertaining stock design and weight of the rifle including Stock, Barrled Action, Scope and rings another words the complete rifle. Long Range Benchrest has its own rules as to rifle weight and stock design. You will need to take this into consideration if and when you ever decided to shoot in some form of a match, even if that is a friendly local club match. I believe that in all probability you will one day want to see how you fair against other folks.
Target and Benchrest Shooting are all great games I would certainly encourage you to get out and shoot. It doesn't have to be expensive, expense will be determined complettly by just how accurate do you want to shoot.
A realistic budget for a really nice and competitive rifle without optics could certainly be in the $2,000 to $2,500 dollar range, that would buy you a very nice Custom Action (used) and all new components from there on out. Today we have the choice of many very fine custom actions. Almost all of them are clones of the Remington 700, but built to a level of precision Remington will never be able to achieve. Jerry Stiller ( I noticed your mention of buying a Stiller Action) is a great guy and a fine builder, however I personaly know of at least 5 people who have had Stiller Actions on order for over two years with no hope from Stiller of when they will even start back into production ( Stiller had a very big Govt contract). But there are many other fine actions Bat is one and almost any model number Bat Action can be in your hands in Three days as there are a few stocking dealers for these custom actions, Farley is another very good action, Barnard another, Panda, Surgeon, and this list goes on and on.
Right now on Benchrest Central http://benchrest.com/class/ in there classified's there are 85 benchrest Rifles for sale, Both Point Blank and long Range. They are in just about any accurate cartridge you can imagine with prices ranging from a low of $1,200 to a high of $4,000 surely somewhere in that price range is a good rifle for almost anyone!
I am going to try and post a couple of pictures of some of my match rifles, all of these are Long Range Benchrest or another discipine I didn't talk about F/Class this type of shooting is known as Belly Bencrest.
Roland
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Welcome Aboard, Gunny!
I'd love to put together an F-Class Rifle.
6. 5's are the Top of the line but I'd have to retool.
Chambering reamer, pilot sleeves, headspace gage, barrel blank, etc.
Was thinking about the 6. 5X55.
Lots of good information out there on that round and decent barrel life.
Semper Fi!
GregH
I'd love to put together an F-Class Rifle.
6. 5's are the Top of the line but I'd have to retool.
Chambering reamer, pilot sleeves, headspace gage, barrel blank, etc.
Was thinking about the 6. 5X55.
Lots of good information out there on that round and decent barrel life.
Semper Fi!
GregH
OH No It was quite awhile ago but still have a bad taste in my mouth over how the COMPANY TREATED a customer, I know that they have bigger fish to fry than I but its just as important to me as anyone else. I thought that I had gave them MORE THAN ENOUGH lee way and they JUST SHINE ME ON!!! I dont think so.
Mr Harman,
F-Class is a hoot thats for sure. The old Swede cartridge ( 6. 5x55) is a great old round and you do see one from time to time. It does have it plus's and minus's though. One of the good thing is it does hold a little more powder than the 6. 5X47L and the added velocity is always a good thing especially when shooting out to a 1,000 yds. Barrel life though for any F-Class rifle is not always going to be a plus. In my Match rifle barrels I hope I can get 1,200 to maybe 1,500 rounds of accurate match quality accuracy, sometimes I do and some times I don't. I have one barrel in that chambering that only went 950 rounds and it was toast, another barrel is still showing very good accuracy and I shot a match two weels ago and today the barrel count is 1,980 rounds.
F-Class is just tough on barrels, and a shooter needs to remember that barrels are an expendable just like powder and bullets. F-Class is so tough on barrels becuase the game itself is very tough. In a typical relay you have ( usually ) 33 Minutes to prepare and shoot a string of unlimited sighters and your 20 shots for record. As an example I personally shoot around 10 sighter shots. To be competitive you are always shooting against the wind, to do that you will have to do one of two things. One is be the best wind reader there is and make a windage adjustment in the blind for every shot, the second is try and shoot a condition. If you can get the wind to be at some level in direction and velocity and make every shot in that condition you are going to do well. Me I shoot a condition. So that when I start shooting I am done with my 30 shots in about 5 Minutes, sometimes even 4 1/2 minutes. This puts a lot of heat into the barrel "A LOT" heat is just one of those things that kills barrels, thats just the price of shooting F-Class.
To get away from that some, I shoot a very heavy barrel--1. 250 for 31 inches straight no taper. These barrels weigh by themselves over 11 1/2 lbs. In F/Open class you are allowed a rifle weight of 22 lbs I want my rifle to as close to that number as I can get it, shooting that heavy of a barrel will do that job. Thank God you don't have to shoot the thing off handed. These heavy barrels are very slow to build the heat because of there mass. But once they have it they sometimes are a little slow to shed that same heat.
F-Class is a great game, I hope you do build a Swede and come on out and shoot...
Roland
F-Class is a hoot thats for sure. The old Swede cartridge ( 6. 5x55) is a great old round and you do see one from time to time. It does have it plus's and minus's though. One of the good thing is it does hold a little more powder than the 6. 5X47L and the added velocity is always a good thing especially when shooting out to a 1,000 yds. Barrel life though for any F-Class rifle is not always going to be a plus. In my Match rifle barrels I hope I can get 1,200 to maybe 1,500 rounds of accurate match quality accuracy, sometimes I do and some times I don't. I have one barrel in that chambering that only went 950 rounds and it was toast, another barrel is still showing very good accuracy and I shot a match two weels ago and today the barrel count is 1,980 rounds.
F-Class is just tough on barrels, and a shooter needs to remember that barrels are an expendable just like powder and bullets. F-Class is so tough on barrels becuase the game itself is very tough. In a typical relay you have ( usually ) 33 Minutes to prepare and shoot a string of unlimited sighters and your 20 shots for record. As an example I personally shoot around 10 sighter shots. To be competitive you are always shooting against the wind, to do that you will have to do one of two things. One is be the best wind reader there is and make a windage adjustment in the blind for every shot, the second is try and shoot a condition. If you can get the wind to be at some level in direction and velocity and make every shot in that condition you are going to do well. Me I shoot a condition. So that when I start shooting I am done with my 30 shots in about 5 Minutes, sometimes even 4 1/2 minutes. This puts a lot of heat into the barrel "A LOT" heat is just one of those things that kills barrels, thats just the price of shooting F-Class.
To get away from that some, I shoot a very heavy barrel--1. 250 for 31 inches straight no taper. These barrels weigh by themselves over 11 1/2 lbs. In F/Open class you are allowed a rifle weight of 22 lbs I want my rifle to as close to that number as I can get it, shooting that heavy of a barrel will do that job. Thank God you don't have to shoot the thing off handed. These heavy barrels are very slow to build the heat because of there mass. But once they have it they sometimes are a little slow to shed that same heat.
F-Class is a great game, I hope you do build a Swede and come on out and shoot...
Roland
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Gunny,
Thats a good description of an F-class application. HHhuntitall is another one who has lots of Competition under his belt. Including F-class, among many other disciplines.
His recommendation is the . 284 Winchester with the 180 Gr. Bullets. I do have pilot bushings for 7MM. Just need a good Barrel, reamer and head space gage.
I have a receiver that will work as well as a laminated stock blank
My competition shooting was many decades ago. Dont move fast enough to keep up with the running around and time requirements.
It would be fun just to compete against myself. Trigger time, the crack of the rifle and that thump on the shoulder. Course, X rings at 1000 Yards are icing on the cake, for me!
I have access to two ranges, one at 600 yards and the other at 1000 yards. The 600 Yard range is the one I get to visit, most.
We'll see how this Summer pans out. Two barrels and two reamers and reloading dies in one year may just be pushing it. Course the receiver dont care:-laf! The lathe is sweating in anticipation
!
Meanwhile, I have some snap caps and will snap in with the . 308 during the bad weather we are presently experiencing! Gotta tune in my "awful hand" shooting:-laf!
Question; What optics are you using on your F-class rifles? Night Force? Or Other?
Thanks, Call me Greg!
Semper Fi!
GregH
Thats a good description of an F-class application. HHhuntitall is another one who has lots of Competition under his belt. Including F-class, among many other disciplines.
His recommendation is the . 284 Winchester with the 180 Gr. Bullets. I do have pilot bushings for 7MM. Just need a good Barrel, reamer and head space gage.
I have a receiver that will work as well as a laminated stock blank
My competition shooting was many decades ago. Dont move fast enough to keep up with the running around and time requirements.
It would be fun just to compete against myself. Trigger time, the crack of the rifle and that thump on the shoulder. Course, X rings at 1000 Yards are icing on the cake, for me!
I have access to two ranges, one at 600 yards and the other at 1000 yards. The 600 Yard range is the one I get to visit, most.
We'll see how this Summer pans out. Two barrels and two reamers and reloading dies in one year may just be pushing it. Course the receiver dont care:-laf! The lathe is sweating in anticipation
!Meanwhile, I have some snap caps and will snap in with the . 308 during the bad weather we are presently experiencing! Gotta tune in my "awful hand" shooting:-laf!
Question; What optics are you using on your F-class rifles? Night Force? Or Other?
Thanks, Call me Greg!
Semper Fi!
GregH
Greg,
I also would like to see you get out and do some shooting, I am the first on to encourage anyone to do that. I guess the reason I am such an advocate of the shooting sports is becuase now that I am old I get so much pleasure from them myself. I spent the best part of my life in the Corps after those 30 years it's just real nice to shoot and not have to worry about someone shooting back.
You are also a very lucky guy, I gathered from reading your post's on this thread that you might be a Gunsmith or have training in machining stuff. With the knowledge and ablity to do those things for yourself you have a huge advantage. All of my Match rifles, and I have five of those, are switch barreled rifles. I have a good Benchrest Smith that does my work for me once he chambers a barrel for any of those rifles he records the dimensions and can duplicate a barrel for me without having to have the reciever. I just order a new barrel and have it dropped shipped to him, he chambers it and ships it to me, Viola a new fresh barrel is ready to go. Changing out the barrels on a Remington 700 clone, custom action takes about 5 minutes. The only tools that are needed are an Action Wrench and a Barrel Vise. You don't even have to remove the action from the stock. Shooting as much as I do a year it is the only way to go for me.
The 6. 5X284 is an excellent long range or 1,000 yd cartridge, its one big draw back is the barrel life with this round. In most cases match quality accuracy in the 6. 5x284 is around 800 to 900 rounds. It is just a barrel burner but it does shoot very close to the wind with the Berger bullets, it shoots the 140 grain bullet very well, two of my rifles have barrels chambered in the 6. 5x284 for those windy days at a 1,000 yds. Its parent case and the one you mention the . 284 Winchester I am not a fan of, I tried this cartridge a couple of times still have the barrel, for me it just never had that edge in accuracy that is needed for F-Class. If I am going to shoot a 7MM bullet, which there are many very good bullets made in this size, it is going to be the 7MM WSAM.
Greg, Reamers are pretty easy and inexpensive to come by, Dave Kiff at PTG makes the best match quality reamer money can buy, he also is a great guy to do business with. Next time you are in the market for one give him a call.
Also remember There are two class's in F-Class shooting. F-Open -- any caliber up to . 338, rifle weight 10 Kilos or 22Lbs, shot off of a rest and rear bag. Then there is F/TR-- Calibers . 308 and . 223 only, rifle weight 8. 25 Kilos or 18. 15 lbs, no rest allowed but can be shoot off of an attached Bipod and a rear bag is allowed. By the way the F/TR stands for F-class/ Target Rifle. At a 1,000 yds it is a tough game with the . 308 just forget the . 223 at that distance if there is any wind at all. But at the Mid-Range distances both do very well.
I am using all Nighforce Scopes, both the NXS and the BR models all of mine are 12-42x56 Powered scopes.
Roland
I also would like to see you get out and do some shooting, I am the first on to encourage anyone to do that. I guess the reason I am such an advocate of the shooting sports is becuase now that I am old I get so much pleasure from them myself. I spent the best part of my life in the Corps after those 30 years it's just real nice to shoot and not have to worry about someone shooting back.
You are also a very lucky guy, I gathered from reading your post's on this thread that you might be a Gunsmith or have training in machining stuff. With the knowledge and ablity to do those things for yourself you have a huge advantage. All of my Match rifles, and I have five of those, are switch barreled rifles. I have a good Benchrest Smith that does my work for me once he chambers a barrel for any of those rifles he records the dimensions and can duplicate a barrel for me without having to have the reciever. I just order a new barrel and have it dropped shipped to him, he chambers it and ships it to me, Viola a new fresh barrel is ready to go. Changing out the barrels on a Remington 700 clone, custom action takes about 5 minutes. The only tools that are needed are an Action Wrench and a Barrel Vise. You don't even have to remove the action from the stock. Shooting as much as I do a year it is the only way to go for me.
The 6. 5X284 is an excellent long range or 1,000 yd cartridge, its one big draw back is the barrel life with this round. In most cases match quality accuracy in the 6. 5x284 is around 800 to 900 rounds. It is just a barrel burner but it does shoot very close to the wind with the Berger bullets, it shoots the 140 grain bullet very well, two of my rifles have barrels chambered in the 6. 5x284 for those windy days at a 1,000 yds. Its parent case and the one you mention the . 284 Winchester I am not a fan of, I tried this cartridge a couple of times still have the barrel, for me it just never had that edge in accuracy that is needed for F-Class. If I am going to shoot a 7MM bullet, which there are many very good bullets made in this size, it is going to be the 7MM WSAM.
Greg, Reamers are pretty easy and inexpensive to come by, Dave Kiff at PTG makes the best match quality reamer money can buy, he also is a great guy to do business with. Next time you are in the market for one give him a call.
Also remember There are two class's in F-Class shooting. F-Open -- any caliber up to . 338, rifle weight 10 Kilos or 22Lbs, shot off of a rest and rear bag. Then there is F/TR-- Calibers . 308 and . 223 only, rifle weight 8. 25 Kilos or 18. 15 lbs, no rest allowed but can be shoot off of an attached Bipod and a rear bag is allowed. By the way the F/TR stands for F-class/ Target Rifle. At a 1,000 yds it is a tough game with the . 308 just forget the . 223 at that distance if there is any wind at all. But at the Mid-Range distances both do very well.
I am using all Nighforce Scopes, both the NXS and the BR models all of mine are 12-42x56 Powered scopes.
Roland
Gunny,
I was in the Corps, also. Back in 1966-1970.
Corporal. 2532 MOS. 'Course we are all 0311's.
Did two tours in 'Nam, from Feb, 1967- June, 1969.
I'm sure you have seen your share of gettin' shot at from multiple theaters, during your Career!
Thanks, from the bottom of my Heart!
Hopefully you didnt get wounded and if so, you have healed in Body, Mind and Spirit!
I considered making a Career of the Corps, but could not get the training and duty station necessary.
That was when the Corps was near 750,000 Marines, with to many extra warm bodies
for the Vietnam Conflict. I don't remember the demographics, but there were near as many Draftees as Enlisted.
We'll see how things go with the Shooting. HHhuntitall is an encourager, like you!
Yes I want to get out there. I have the tools, training and have built a few rifles over the years.
I have a young Son that is growing into that age which requires every bit of attention (13 years old).
He is taller than I am, with size 14 shoes! He enjoys shooting, as well as my Step Daughter who is 28 years old.
I get to reload a lot of ammo!
My freedom to come and go as I please is somewhat limited for reasons that I will not go into here. But Shooting is always on my mind!
Hunting takes a close second. We have a healthy Elk and deer population around here. The terrain is rugged with lots of private property
interspersed with a State Park and National Forest. Gettin the Elk to "cooperate" :-lafhas been a long term goal
! Bang Flop, DRT is the local (My) requirement to keep wounded game from moving onto private property. Some land owners around here are not hunter friendly.
Building an accurate and practical hunting rifle, for the terrain, has been one of my challenges.
That is why most of my tooling is . 30 caliber. My most recent builds include a . 308 (M-40 clone), . 30/06 and a . 30/338 heavy barreled rifles for kill switch shots on game as well as punching holes in paper. I am also a big fan of he mighty . 45/70Oo. :-laf!( Did you know that the GI load for the . 45/70/500 will shoot further than the GI . 30 M-2! 3400 yards vs 3200 yards. )
In my younger years I tried running down Elk and stalking them through the timber. I was somewhat successful, course, nothing like BIGNASTY ( theres another Good hearted VET ). When ya get the chance, read some of his posts and threads in this forum. He has a "love affair" with the Grizzly and Elk and packs a individually manned, shoulder fired howitzer fer the humpback that would try to hurt his Mules when up Elk hunting. Course BIG hunts with a long range artillery piece . 338/378 Weatherby and has made regular and spectacular shots on game!
BIGNASTY and HHhuntitall are good folks to get to know on TDR! CBlack I am getting to know, as well as a few others. With the political climate as it is, there is not much shooting related conversation going on, for concern of being noticed and placed under surveillence.
GregH
I was in the Corps, also. Back in 1966-1970.
Corporal. 2532 MOS. 'Course we are all 0311's.
Did two tours in 'Nam, from Feb, 1967- June, 1969.
I'm sure you have seen your share of gettin' shot at from multiple theaters, during your Career!
Thanks, from the bottom of my Heart!
Hopefully you didnt get wounded and if so, you have healed in Body, Mind and Spirit!
I considered making a Career of the Corps, but could not get the training and duty station necessary.
That was when the Corps was near 750,000 Marines, with to many extra warm bodies
for the Vietnam Conflict. I don't remember the demographics, but there were near as many Draftees as Enlisted.
We'll see how things go with the Shooting. HHhuntitall is an encourager, like you!
Yes I want to get out there. I have the tools, training and have built a few rifles over the years.
I have a young Son that is growing into that age which requires every bit of attention (13 years old).
He is taller than I am, with size 14 shoes! He enjoys shooting, as well as my Step Daughter who is 28 years old.
I get to reload a lot of ammo
!My freedom to come and go as I please is somewhat limited for reasons that I will not go into here. But Shooting is always on my mind!
Hunting takes a close second. We have a healthy Elk and deer population around here. The terrain is rugged with lots of private property
interspersed with a State Park and National Forest. Gettin the Elk to "cooperate" :-lafhas been a long term goal
! Bang Flop, DRT is the local (My) requirement to keep wounded game from moving onto private property. Some land owners around here are not hunter friendly. Building an accurate and practical hunting rifle, for the terrain, has been one of my challenges.
That is why most of my tooling is . 30 caliber. My most recent builds include a . 308 (M-40 clone), . 30/06 and a . 30/338 heavy barreled rifles for kill switch shots on game as well as punching holes in paper. I am also a big fan of he mighty . 45/70Oo. :-laf!( Did you know that the GI load for the . 45/70/500 will shoot further than the GI . 30 M-2! 3400 yards vs 3200 yards
. )In my younger years I tried running down Elk and stalking them through the timber. I was somewhat successful, course, nothing like BIGNASTY ( theres another Good hearted VET ). When ya get the chance, read some of his posts and threads in this forum. He has a "love affair" with the Grizzly and Elk and packs a individually manned, shoulder fired howitzer fer the humpback that would try to hurt his Mules when up Elk hunting. Course BIG hunts with a long range artillery piece . 338/378 Weatherby and has made regular and spectacular shots on game!
BIGNASTY and HHhuntitall are good folks to get to know on TDR! CBlack I am getting to know, as well as a few others. With the political climate as it is, there is not much shooting related conversation going on, for concern of being noticed and placed under surveillence.
GregH
HHhuntitall
TDR MEMBER
BIG,
Yes, Gail McMillan was an ***. I only briefly met him shortly before he died, and I can't say this world is worse off without him... . He was a brilliant machinist and engineer. Their products are second to none, and with his reputation, they had to be!!! :-laf Rock and his brother run it now, and their people skills are only somewhat better..... I don't deal with them, I just deal with the girls in the office. Heather is usually the one at SHOT show, but that may have changed, as she recently had children... ... She's good to deal with, but occasionally, they have their foul ups, more so than the typical company. I don't know how many times I've had a stock un-order itself.....
Regardless, they build a good product, but if you don't like them, that's your right, of course. Another great stock builder is David Manners. Great stocks, just a bit on the heavy side. That can be a problem in F-class if you're trying to make class weight in F-TR. The . 308 I built that Dad took to Nationals had to have a Leupold scope to make class, as the NXS Nightforce was too heavy... ... We stripped it down inside the stock, on the bipod, mounts... . taking a few ounces off where we could.....
Gunny, welcome. Glad to have you. From your posts, you sound well versed, and with that much experience in the Corp, I'm sure you've had plenty of "trigger-time. " I've shot the 6. 5x284 many years, as well as the . 284 Win. The recent bullet developements in . 284 are what make me want to use it, as it's ballistics become far superior at 1,000yds. I like the 180gr Bergers, but I also use the Bob Cerrera? 189gr. An excellent bullet. Dad has much more experience with them, but I've had good luck, so far. I haven't used them in competition, yet, but so far in practice, they've proven to buck the wind much better. Now that the classes are open to . 338, I'm looking at the 300gr Hybrid Berger... ... either in a . 338 Lapua or . 338 Win mag... ... Even my Dad is looking at the Win Mag after reading Bryan Litz new book and researching the bullet coeffecients..... Doping the wind is certainly very important, but if you had more room for error, why not take it? (IF you can take the recoil!! 
)
As for your 6. 5x284, I find it strange you don't have better barrel life..... I usually get 1500+ rounds of Match accuracy out of mine... . which makes me ask what barrels you use?
The . 223 round is not to be overlooked..... I built one for a friend that holds the midrange(600) civilian NRA record, using 80gr Bergers. It's a great practice round, and certainly can be helpful to train for reading the wind!!! It's not really viable at 1,000, but it can be competitive on calm days. A long throat and tight neck are essential, as you know... . I've got a 6BR I built that's proving to be a great mid-range rifle, as well. It shot several clean targets at the New Mexico Regionals last year, using the 115grDTAC bullets... . Again, not a record maker at 1,000, but certainly competitive.
GHarm, thanks for the kind words... . Can you talk to my mother for me? :-laf Quick question on headspace guage..... why not use the brass you're going to shoot for setting up the headspace? I use the wieghed and measured Winchester brass on my match rifles to set my headspace (or Lapua, just depending on what I'm using... . a bunch of us are trying to petition Lapua to make . 284 brass!!)... . just a thought... . Need some . 284 brass?
OH, and I don't mind talking at all about bolt guns and competition shooting in public..... I sold all my ARs, though, as well as anything else I had that may be "undesirable" in civilian hands... ...
Yes, Gail McMillan was an ***. I only briefly met him shortly before he died, and I can't say this world is worse off without him... . He was a brilliant machinist and engineer. Their products are second to none, and with his reputation, they had to be!!! :-laf Rock and his brother run it now, and their people skills are only somewhat better..... I don't deal with them, I just deal with the girls in the office. Heather is usually the one at SHOT show, but that may have changed, as she recently had children... ... She's good to deal with, but occasionally, they have their foul ups, more so than the typical company. I don't know how many times I've had a stock un-order itself.....
Regardless, they build a good product, but if you don't like them, that's your right, of course. Another great stock builder is David Manners. Great stocks, just a bit on the heavy side. That can be a problem in F-class if you're trying to make class weight in F-TR. The . 308 I built that Dad took to Nationals had to have a Leupold scope to make class, as the NXS Nightforce was too heavy... ... We stripped it down inside the stock, on the bipod, mounts... . taking a few ounces off where we could..... Gunny, welcome. Glad to have you. From your posts, you sound well versed, and with that much experience in the Corp, I'm sure you've had plenty of "trigger-time. " I've shot the 6. 5x284 many years, as well as the . 284 Win. The recent bullet developements in . 284 are what make me want to use it, as it's ballistics become far superior at 1,000yds. I like the 180gr Bergers, but I also use the Bob Cerrera? 189gr. An excellent bullet. Dad has much more experience with them, but I've had good luck, so far. I haven't used them in competition, yet, but so far in practice, they've proven to buck the wind much better. Now that the classes are open to . 338, I'm looking at the 300gr Hybrid Berger... ... either in a . 338 Lapua or . 338 Win mag... ... Even my Dad is looking at the Win Mag after reading Bryan Litz new book and researching the bullet coeffecients..... Doping the wind is certainly very important, but if you had more room for error, why not take it?
(IF you can take the recoil!! )As for your 6. 5x284, I find it strange you don't have better barrel life..... I usually get 1500+ rounds of Match accuracy out of mine... . which makes me ask what barrels you use?
The . 223 round is not to be overlooked..... I built one for a friend that holds the midrange(600) civilian NRA record, using 80gr Bergers. It's a great practice round, and certainly can be helpful to train for reading the wind!!! It's not really viable at 1,000, but it can be competitive on calm days. A long throat and tight neck are essential, as you know... . I've got a 6BR I built that's proving to be a great mid-range rifle, as well. It shot several clean targets at the New Mexico Regionals last year, using the 115grDTAC bullets... . Again, not a record maker at 1,000, but certainly competitive.
GHarm, thanks for the kind words... . Can you talk to my mother for me? :-laf Quick question on headspace guage..... why not use the brass you're going to shoot for setting up the headspace? I use the wieghed and measured Winchester brass on my match rifles to set my headspace (or Lapua, just depending on what I'm using... . a bunch of us are trying to petition Lapua to make . 284 brass!!)... . just a thought... . Need some . 284 brass?
OH, and I don't mind talking at all about bolt guns and competition shooting in public..... I sold all my ARs, though, as well as anything else I had that may be "undesirable" in civilian hands... ...
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HHhuntitall,
The only way I would think that brass would work as a headspace gauge is if it was already fired in a chamber cut to GO Gauge spec.
Unfired brass is an unknown, within a wide range of SAAMI parameters.
Thats just my thinking, anyway!
Ahh, I have a 6MMBr in the works also. And stock work, all next winter if I get it chambered this Summer.
Just getting fired up and eliminating all the stuff that seems to come at ya out of nowhere!
Right now I am refinishing kitchen cabinets (forever, I might add!). Then taxes:-laf!
Was thinking about using a left handed, Paramount receiver that I have in my "dream cache". What do ya think?Oo.
Scope mounts will be tough to find!
The barrel blank is a 1-8" twist H-S precision 10X barrel, HV contour. It will finish at about 26-27".
Not ready for . 284 Brass as yet!
GregH
The only way I would think that brass would work as a headspace gauge is if it was already fired in a chamber cut to GO Gauge spec.
Unfired brass is an unknown, within a wide range of SAAMI parameters.
Thats just my thinking, anyway!
Ahh, I have a 6MMBr in the works also. And stock work, all next winter if I get it chambered this Summer.
Just getting fired up and eliminating all the stuff that seems to come at ya out of nowhere!
Right now I am refinishing kitchen cabinets (forever, I might add!)
. Then taxes:-laf!Was thinking about using a left handed, Paramount receiver that I have in my "dream cache". What do ya think?Oo.
Scope mounts will be tough to find!
The barrel blank is a 1-8" twist H-S precision 10X barrel, HV contour. It will finish at about 26-27".
Not ready for . 284 Brass as yet!
GregH
HHhuntitall
TDR MEMBER
Ooops, missed your question!! For that kind of money, it's not a bad purchase..... Personally, I'd look at a Savage Long Range Precision or F Class rifle... . There are several chamberings available, such as 6mm Norma Bench Rest, 6. 5x284Norma, . 308, . 223, . 260Reming, . 243Win... ..... While they are not chambered as tight as you really need to be competitive at some ranges, they'd be a great starter rifle, and are easily rechambered. While they're not a Remington clone, there is a lot of accessories available. Wal-Marts used to offer them in the custom order catalog, and are usually cheaper than other places..... The Remington will have to have some machine work done to the action before it will be ready for a new barrel, so you're going to have an additional cost of @ $150, plus the $450 for the barrel and chambering... . The Remington's don't have an integral recoil lug, so it has to be indexed while screwing the new barrel on... . This can be remedied by pinning the recoil lug, as GHarm suggests, but that costs extra!!
I've had good luck with the Savages, despite my dislikes of the trigger assemblies. I've shot several clean targets with one at 500yds, but it takes handloading, patience, and practice!!
HHhuntitall
TDR MEMBER
HHhuntitall,
The only way I would think that brass would work as a headspace gauge is if it was already fired in a chamber cut to GO Gauge spec.
Unfired brass is an unknown, within a wide range of SAAMI parameters.
Thats just my thinking, anyway!
Ahh, I have a 6MMBr in the works also. And stock work, all next winter if I get it chambered this Summer.
Just getting fired up and eliminating all the stuff that seems to come at ya out of nowhere!
Right now I am refinishing kitchen cabinets (forever, I might add!)
Was thinking about using a left handed, Paramount receiver that I have in my "dream cache". What do ya think?Oo.
Scope mounts will be tough to find!
The barrel blank is a 1-8" twist H-S precision 10X barrel, HV contour. It will finish at about 26-27".
Not ready for . 284 Brass as yet!
GregH
GHarm, the brass is measured in quantity, then you give it several thousandths for growth and fireforming, as well as inconsistency..... it usually ends up a tighter chamber than SAAMI spec'd, so most GO guages won't GO!!! :-laf I find that by using the brass, it usually ends up about . 006-. 010 shorter than SAMMI GO guages from Forster or Clymer... . BUT, it does limit brass life, in that once your brass grows after 4-5 firings, it can't be used in that rifle any more..... sometimes. The good news there is that it WILL go in any other rifle after that life cycle has been reached!! :-laf But then it only has one firing left, usually, as it stresses the neck too much and it cracks..... And sometimes, you have to scrap a few pieces of brass per hundred, as they won't fit, but that's the nature of the sport!! AND, as one would assume, Lapua and Norma brass are more consistent and typically smaller spec'd than Winchester or Federal.....
I'd think Paramount mounts would be easier than Kitchen Cabinets!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
uke: I redid the ones in my lease house I had in Lubbock, and I was ready to burn the whole house before I got done!!! (might have been an improvement!!! :-laf) Then I redid the ones in my buddies house in Rule after he bought it, right before he moved, after he got a contract on his other house his pregnant wife was living in... ... Not exactly my best work, but it got done... . as well as carpet, trim, adding a few walls, a bedroom, painting, and most of the shiitrock work..... I hated him after two weeks on that job!! I didn't speak to him for two months after that!!! :-laf When I built this house, I ordered the cabinets bare, and stained and urethaned them myself... ... 
What I'll do for money... ..... New construction isn't so bad, but rework :{The mounts should be a cinch. Just order some blanks and contour what you want... ... And I'm sure you can find something the same diameter to make some out of pretty quick, maybe just have to drill and tap the reciever? O. K. Weber was the importer, IIRC, and would know where to find some mounts that would fit it, pretty easy, I bet.....
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
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