Bush places tarriffs on foreign steel

[The patriot]

I'm starting to feel pretty good. You all have white hard hats. Mine is GOLD !:-laf :-laf

Eric

 

[SS]

You don't think GM or their vendor goes to the SAE to design a wheel bearing... ?

Steve M, I think you've fallen down the elevator shaft one too many times. I agree that the manufacturers design for life AND cost. I am also very well aware that the SAE has standards for vehicle related items such as minimum performance specifications for lighting, methods to test, new manufacturing processes, and so on. I'm proud of you for spelling SAE and getting to the website. But, I must reiterate: The SAE does not design parts. Nowhere in the thousands of SAE papers will you find they dictate a life or cost to the manufacturers. You must think that the SAE is a group of engineers for hire by manufacturers to design their vehicles???



But hey, this is America, and you have the right to be wrong.

 

[Jeff H]

:-{} And on and on and on for infinite.

 

[Amianthus]

Here's the deal on ASME / SAE

I am an ASME Authorized Inspector. What the ASME is, is a bunch of engineers that got together to establish standards for construction for various components. What this means is that they establish a minimum requirement for construction. They do not dictate design! If you want to build an air tank, they establish that it will be made out of material that will withstand the stress. They don't tell you how long to make it last, what shape, size, etc. The SAE works the same way. They do not design parts or dictate design. They establish a minimum standard to build to. That's why all vehicles are not the same. If the SAE dictated design by code, all vehicles would be the same.



The membership of these organizations are made up of thier respective engineers. ASME is made up of mechanical engineers. It's sort of like a brotherhood of mechanical engineers. They come from all manufacturers and governments. The same applies to the SAE. A group of automotive engineers. Any automotive engineer, from any manufacturer can be a member.



These groups were established to prevent shoddy engineering practices from ruining the industry and ultimately killing people. Air tanks aren't made from wood. Why? Because the ASME says that you will make it from material that is not likely to fail and hurt someone. Again, they don't tell you the design specifics. That's the manufacturer's problem. SAE doesn't allow you to make wheel spindles from wood for the same reason. They could fail and kill someone. But they don't say how it will be done.



That's the whole deal on the ASME and the SAE.

 

[radixr]

At last, finality.

And that should be the final word. Good post, Amianthus!

 

[me4osu]

Our AI Sucks

The goober tried to tell me to provide a calculation for a forged reducer. I asked him to quote chapter and verse and he gave me UG-33. I had to remind him of UG-11. Never had a problem with him after that.



Amianthus is right. I am not an automotive engineer, but a mechanical engineer. ASME section VIII gives us methods of calculating limits of external and internal pressure, stregnth of openings, and MDMT (minimum design material temperature). Our insurance company requires an ASME stamp on our pressure vessels for liability reasons. Thus, the only way the insurance will cover an incident is if the vessel had the required ASME stamp. However, for longevity, it is up to us to give the vessels the adequate materials and corrosion allowance based upon the service it is placed in.



There are other groups that have general guidelines that factor into our design also. NACE (National Association of Corrosion Engineers) dictates that we employ 100% x-ray and normalize all girth & seam welds for levels of H2S exceeding a given level. This requires an RT-1 stamp.

 

[Steve M]

Ground Vehicle Standards

These standards documents (commonly referred to as “J” reports or “J” documents) cover hundreds of interest areas relating to ground vehicle design, manufacturing, testing, and performance.



The word "design" is in there. You can make it look like what ever you want it to look like. As in the case of the Prowler. But that vehicle like all others is designed in accordance with the standards set forth by the SAE. These standards are dictated. That's why the Prowler has fenders on the front wheels and the rear meats don't bulge out past the fenders etc. The placement of the tail-lights to the materials the brake rotors are made of is dictated by the SAE. The size and type of bearings used in the axles is set forth by the SAE. The parts counter man doesn't decide which bearing will go into a newly designed rear axle. An automotive engineer does when he designs the new axle. And he refers to the standards set forth by the SAE or a new standard is created. And a new axle is designed.

When our engineers design a new elevator, it can look like a tin can if that's what the customer wants but, it will be designed in accordance to the standards set forth by the ASME or it will not pass final inspection and will not be licensed for use. The ASME does dictate what the capacity of the elevator will be for it's given purpose and the material it will be made of and the grade of that material and the nuts and bolts used to hold it together. I have the book out in my truck. They are quite expensive and thorough.



I just went back and re-read my post that probably got the threads all crossed up.

"I'd have to design my items to only last so long. The SAE does just that in hopes that people will replace their vehicles in about 80-100k miles with new ones. "

The automotive engineers who are employed by the big three who make up the majority of the SAE membership, have a definate interest in longevity of a wheel bearing. If the automaker (employer) wants a wheel bearing to last a given amount of time (mileage), it can be done and it does happen through design by the engineers. It would be cost prohibitive to design a vehicle to last a million miles. It would also be disasterous financially to design a vehicle to last 25,000 miles as in the Yugo. Either way, the wheel bearing will conform to the standards set forth by the SAE for reasons stated in Amianthus' post.

So I can see where my poor choice of words, likely a result of my *exquisite* choice of beer, has caused a total meltdown of comunication and confusion amongst the masses. My sincere appologies sire.