California.... I don't like living here!

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

There are several workshops listed on the cal gov website in the first post, hope some of you folks down there show up and put in your two cents' worth Subject Top Page: On-Road Heavy-Duty Diesel Vehicles (In-Use) Regulation

 

[DGerth]

I left that fine upstanding place back in the 70's and have'nt looked back. I propose to cut the place off just above Sacramento and give the bottom part to the "good neighbor" to the south. Let them have what they seem to be taking anyway. Just . 02 worth from a native son???

dg

 

[klenger]

I've got my eye on some future ocean front property at Lake Havasu City AZ.

 

[Regcabguy]

English rarely spoken here.

I left that fine upstanding place back in the 70's and have'nt looked back. I propose to cut the place off just above Sacramento and give the bottom part to the "good neighbor" to the south. Let them have what they seem to be taking anyway. Just . 02 worth from a native son???

dg

My sister left in 1968. She's lived in Toledo and Corvallis,Oregon,Camas and Ellensburg,Wa and Farmington,NM. She just admitted to me last week that if she could afford it,she'd move back here yesterday. Her and the husband constantly take vacations to locales with warm climates. (Farmington really sucked,according to her. ) I must admit it still burns my butt when I have to enter"English" here at the ATM. The only ATM I've found that doesn't offer Spanish is on the base@Pt. Loma.

 

[DCreed]

I must admit it still burns my butt when I have to enter"English" here at the ATM. The only ATM I've found that doesn't offer Spanish is on the base@Pt. Loma.

I'm waiting for them to write a spanish version of the constitution, untill then speak freakin' english!!#@$%!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

My sister left in 1968. She's lived in Toledo and Corvallis,Oregon,Camas and Ellensburg,Wa and Farmington,NM. She just admitted to me last week that if she could afford it,she'd move back here yesterday.

I seriously suspect that the California she left 40 years ago is FAR different than what's there now - and tho' she undoubtedly visits, and thinks she abreast of current events in California, the cold light of dawn would quickly affect her yearnings if she ever did return on a permanent basis.



I know lots of folks don't like colder climate areas, but we still love a sight like this outside our windows:



#ad




NOPE - couldn't PAY me to move back! :-laf



.

 

[ceastmen]

My wife and I left California in the late 70's and have never regretted it.

We go back yearly to visit family and some friends and are constantly amazed at what the State is trying to get people to do.

The most recent bright idea is the thermostat proposed law I of heard of today. I haven't read anything personally, but a few co-workers told me that the state of California is going to try to control your thermostat.

Say it ain't so please!!!!!!!

Anybody from California know anything about this?

Chuck E.

 

[Regcabguy]

Gary,she stands by her statement. She visits frequently and is well aware of the changes. Nice picture out of your window,by the way! We were in Kona recently for the second time. That is one place I could relocate to. I can relate to your decision to move north. If it had surf and was warm,I'd be on it! I miss the slow pace San Diego used to have. Anyway,when your local ATM demands that you specify language preferences... ..... change is on the way. :{

 

[hilda]

Whats all the fuss about?

I don't see any issues with have to leave my house at 5:30 am to keep my half hour drive at a half hour, #@$%! instead of leaving at 8:00 where it would take me 2 hour in stop and go traffic with my 5 speed. Where the medium price for a home is somewhere about $800,000-$1,000,000. It so wonderful here that 1 million people move into the state every year.



I'm leaving very soon.



Hilda

 

[wxman]

It appears that the California regulatory agencies are using diesels as a scapegoat for their air quality problems. They've ARBITRARILY classified diesel particulate matter (DPM) as a "toxic air contaminant" and a carcinogen while giving all other sources of combustion PM a free pass. Even EPA hasn't classified DPM as carcinogenic saying that evidence of it's carcinogenicity is weak to moderate and that even a zero risk couldn't be ruled out based on a plethora of studies (Hazard Assessment Document for Diesel Engine Exhaust).



Gasoline PM hasn't undergone this level of scrutiny. However, gasoline PM has been shown to have higher levels of high molecular weight polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH), many of which are carcinogens (e. g. , benzo[ghi]perylene). Gasoline PM has also been shown to be more toxic than DPM. CNG bus PM is more than 7 times more mutagenic than DPM. Yet these sources are NOT listed as toxic air contaminants/carcinogens.



Furthermore, gasoline exhaust and gasoline vapors are responsible for formation of secondary PM (secondary organic aerosols - SOA - PM produce by gaseous precursors in the atmosphere). Consider this:





Per Southern California Air Quality Management District's (SCAQMD) own data, ambient PM2. 5 = 21. 6 micrograms/cubic meter (ug/m3) in 2002-2003 in LA, 35% of that was organic carbon (OC), ~5% was EC (http://arb.ca.gov/pm/pmmeasures/pmch05/southcoast05.doc; figure O-4); at least 50% of the OC is SOA in SoCAB (John H. Seinfeld, Prasad Pai, and David Allen, “AEROSOL-FORMING POTENTIAL OF ATMOSPHERIC ORGANIC COMPOUNDS”. http://www.narsto.org/files/files/AssessAerosol.pdf; Shaocai Yu, Robin L. Dennis, Prakash V. Bhave and Brian K. Eder, “Primary and secondary organic aerosols over the United States: estimates on the basis of observed organic carbon (OC) and elemental carbon (EC), and air quality modeled primary OC/EC ratios”. Atmospheric Environment, Volume 38, Issue 31, October 2004, Pages 5257-5268; average ambient DPM in LA is 1. 5 ug/m3; (http://www.gvrd.bc.ca/air/pdfs/DieselParticulateMatterStudy.pdf, page 4):



21. 6 ug/m3 X 0. 35 (35% OC) = 7. 56 ug/m3 OC



7. 56 ug/m3 X 0. 5 (~50% of OC is SOA in SoCAB) = 3. 78 ug/m3 SOA



~76% of ambient NMHC in SoCAB is from gasoline exhaust and gasoline vapors (http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2002/session5/2002_deer_fujita.pdf, Steven G. Brown, Anna Frankel and Hilary R. Hafner; “Source apportionment of VOCs in the Los Angeles area using positive matrix factorization”. Atmospheric Environment, Volume 41, Issue 2, January 2007, Pages 227-237).



3. 78 ug/m3 X 0. 755 (75. 5%) = 2. 85 ug/m3



Therefore, it is likely that just the SOA from gasoline NMHC accounts for more ambient PM2. 5 mass than DPM in SoCAB (almost twice as much); PLUS, a majority of primary PM emissions from gasoline vehicles is OC.



SOA just from evaporative emissions from gasoline storage/distribution:



3. 78 ug/m3 X 0. 325 (~33% of NMHC are evaporative emissions per Brown, et al. ) = 1. 23 ug/m3; i. e. , nearly as much as the calculated ambient DPM (1. 5 ug/m3).





I think that gasoline vehicles are primarily responsible for the air quality problems in Southern California (smog, ambient PM), but cracking down on those wouldn't be politically popular, would it?

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Do any of the government, state or federal, boneheads realize that vehicle emissions are about 20%(IIRC) of the pollution they are so worried about? Why don't they worry about the 80% instead of making motor vehicles their designated whipping boy. What a bunch of eco-nazi bullshyt!

I don't know if your numbers are accurate but you are exactely right. I work in power plants and I can tell you that some of them are really allowed to pollute just because of the available technology at the time. The plant I work at is limited to 2 ppm of NOx and makes 750 megawatts of power, at a plant I previously worked at we were allowed 215 ppm of NOx and only made 24. 5 megawatts. Now I realize that any reduction in emissions cost money and we don't want to send these companies out of the country so I would like to see some of the government money go to helping these companies reduce emission instead of paying for welfare. I figure if we made welfare recipients pee in a cup we could pay for a better environment in no time.

 

[HBarlow]

Wow, I'm impressed!



I suspect the liberal/socialist legislature of CA is not interested in the impressive info you posted. They are agenda driven.



Harvey

 

[catoiler]

I don't know if your numbers are accurate but you are exactely right. I work in power plants and I can tell you that some of them are really allowed to pollute just because of the available technology at the time. The plant I work at is limited to 2 ppm of NOx and makes 750 megawatts of power, at a plant I previously worked at we were allowed 215 ppm of NOx and only made 24. 5 megawatts. Now I realize that any reduction in emissions cost money and we don't want to send these companies out of the country so I would like to see some of the government money go to helping these companies reduce emission instead of paying for welfare. I figure if we made welfare recipients pee in a cup we could pay for a better environment in no time.

Well well now we are on track for the whole greenhouse garbage Al Gore is pushing on us! Seems he has a company over the pond that sells pollution(sp) credits to major companys(polluters) so they can get around the epa boys. Kinda like they did a few years back when they started buying up all the old cars, take x amount off the road and we will let you pollute without the fines. Someone please tell me where the hole in the ozone went!! I think good ol Al musta fixed that too!

 

[JustinClark]

Just pass the word in CA that they don't want to move to CO. The weather here is horrible, we're too rural, LOVE guns, & allow . 50 cals! Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona are all VERY nice places to move!

 

[HBarlow]

You guys who are posting politically incorrect comments about goofy gore and environmental wackos are going to have your names placed on the hit list right after mine to be executed as soon as the wackos take over the government. Shame on you.



Harvey

 

[klenger]

Just pass the word in CA that they don't want to move to CO. The weather here is horrible, we're too rural, LOVE guns, & allow . 50 cals! Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona are all VERY nice places to move!

What makes you think we want them? :-laf

 

[SNiebaum]

I think that gasoline vehicles are primarily responsible for the air quality problems in Southern California (smog, ambient PM), but cracking down on those wouldn't be politically popular, would it?

Diesels are the target because they have visible particulate matter... people believe things they can see easier than what can only be demonstrated on paper.



Good info though...

 

[Moose Truck]

It appears that the California regulatory agencies are using diesels as a scapegoat for their air quality problems. They've ARBITRARILY classified diesel particulate matter (DPM) as a "toxic air contaminant" and a carcinogen while giving all other sources of combustion PM a free pass. Even EPA hasn't classified DPM as carcinogenic saying that evidence of it's carcinogenicity is weak to moderate and that even a zero risk couldn't be ruled out based on a plethora of studies (Hazard Assessment Document for Diesel Engine Exhaust).



Gasoline PM hasn't undergone this level of scrutiny. However, gasoline PM has been shown to have higher levels of high molecular weight polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH), many of which are carcinogens (e. g. , benzo[ghi]perylene). Gasoline PM has also been shown to be more toxic than DPM. CNG bus PM is more than 7 times more mutagenic than DPM. Yet these sources are NOT listed as toxic air contaminants/carcinogens.



Furthermore, gasoline exhaust and gasoline vapors are responsible for formation of secondary PM (secondary organic aerosols - SOA - PM produce by gaseous precursors in the atmosphere). Consider this:





I think that gasoline vehicles are primarily responsible for the air quality problems in Southern California (smog, ambient PM), but cracking down on those wouldn't be politically popular, would it?

And that's the Point. You see the Black Sooty Exhaust plume of the Diesels of old; it justs make a good target for the Eco-Nazis, where the clear and more carcinogenic exhaust of the Gassers gets less attention. Remember CA's love affair with the Electric car, Zero Pollution! Of course the power has to come from somewhere, with all of its pollution and transmitting losses, just as Turbo Tim 1 said. Also never mind the thousands pounds of heavy metals and caustic liquids in each car! :-{} Moose

 

[p-Bar]

Just pass the word in CA that they don't want to move to CO. The weather here is horrible, we're too rural, LOVE guns, & allow . 50 cals! Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona are all VERY nice places to move!

>50 cals I'm on my way!!!!Oo.

 

[Joe G.]

A little reality check here. The loonies in Sacramento pass a lot of things that they don't fund. The result of that is that they don't get inforced. Then other states adobt the same laws and DO inforce them. My truck has never been inspected for anything. There are no smog inspection requirements in the rural counties like where I live unless the vehicle changes hands. And that only applies to gasoline powered vehicles. My truck smokes like a forest fire if I get on it. No cop that has seen that has even looked at me. A friend of mine runs red diesel in his truck. Has for years. He is on the road all the time because of his contracting business. The only time he has been inspected for it was in Nevada. If your state is adopting laws that we have, you should be getting after your legislature.