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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) caTCHER ecm (Marco's aka MAD)

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Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) So how much blowby is normal?

2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Hurricane Rita

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Originally posted by Diesel Freak

1. stock truck stock ECM



2. stock truck stock ECM+ any Timing box of your choosing



3. stock truck w/ MAD ECM



4. stock truck w/ MAD ECM+ any timing box of your choosing



And on the same day no less. :)



In other words, and to reinforce my comments as to expected changes in power curves - probably NONE in dyno scenarios, and actual power increase about the same as an EZ...




So you think that on the dyno an EZ does not add power? Of course it does, and I would think that this ECM would be able to add even more then an EZ because it is the ECM. Like I said above, I want those dyno runs, then we all will be able to stop thinking/guessing what it does, and be able to see it. 90% of anything you change you can see on the dyno, rather it be sooner in the RPM or a higher peak number.



Andrew
 
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So you think that on the dyno an EZ does not add power?



Here's what I said:



and actual power increase about the same as an EZ...



Now, what part of "about the same (power increase) as an EZ" confused you? ;) :p



Keep in mind that power INCREASE, and power CURVE are two different things... ;)
 
By changing the fueling curve, duration/RPM, haven't you in effect changed the torque curve. If the fuel/air ratio is changed, quicker spool-up, won't the HP curve follow the torque through the power band?



Keep in mind that changing timing and increasing fueling are only PART of the power equation - there's still the camshaft to consider, and IT is a major player in engine power curves as well...
 
makes me smile every day. I let a another member drive my truck today and his comments are.



Bob Wagner just stopped by to visit a bit. We got to talking and he asked if I wanted to drive his truck...



Well, I said yes, and we were off! Bear in mind that I have not driven a DTT transmission before.



There was virtually no turbo lag at all. Very responsive. It was if it was a VA, on steroids. The bottom end was amazing. No other boxes were stacked with the re-programmed ecm.



Nice job on the program!
 
the part where you said this...





quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

probably NONE in dyno scenarios

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





LEARN to READ dude - the WHOLE paragraph - then understand the DIFFERENCE between a power CURVE and maximum power OUTPUT - they are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!



Here's what I *said*



In other words, and to reinforce my comments as to expected changes in power curves - probably NONE in dyno scenarios, and actual power increase about the same as an EZ...



Now, I can keep reposting this stuff all night if it will help ya! ;) :D :p
 
LEARN to READ dude - the WHOLE paragraph - then understand the DIFFERENCE between a power CURVE and maximum power OUTPUT - they are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! [/B]



Interpretation is a great thing isn't? :rolleyes:



Obviously there was a problem with the way you were saying it if I didn't grasp it the way you posted it the first time. Maybe if I had read your post while parked in an RV parked in a Walmart I would have understood a little better. :p
 
Thanks Jared... ... Hows the T-Rex working? Mike

AKAMAC, I have about 25k miles on it and am extremely pleased with the T-Rex system, the main problem is it seems to have temporarily consumed my catcher ecm funding ;)

Jared
 
Area under the HP curve is important... . it illustrates Torque!



What RPM range is the area of the greatest importance?



THE WHOLE THING..... NOT JUST UNDER 2000 RPM!



The MAD ECM may add 65-70 HP on the low end, but peak HP increase will still be limited to 25 HP. This makes for a longer and flatter powerband.



but I spend very little time under 1800 RPM when @ WOT.



Why? There is enough TQ down there to tear things up with the Mach 4, EZ, Blue Box combo on my truck.



For the slushbox crowd with really tight convertors, this ECM should help when accelerating around town at light throttle.
 
This might be a bit long - but I think due to earlier posts, it is appropriate...



There is obvious confusion and misunderstanding with some posters in this thread as to the difference between what constitutes a power CURVE - or the VARIATIONS of generated power at different RPM as plotted on a graph - and MAXIMUM power, the absolute BEST power a given engine will deliver at some specific RPM - they are 2 entirely DIFFERENT aspects of engine efficiency and operation!



To help illustrate the above, I am including 2 dyno graphs done on my '02 Dodge at 6000 miles - dyno was Ken Imler's Mustang dyno in Sacramento ( I have since dynoed at higher power with more miles under the floorboards) - the GREEN line represents TORQUE - the BLUE line is HP - the first shown is the STOCK setting:



#ad




Carefully note where on the RPM scale my engine achieved maximum power output, and where it began it's steep downward decline - this was with my Comp turned off, and no other engine mods.



NOW, here is the same engine, same day, with the Comp on max, 5x5:



#ad




Again, note where maximum power peaks, and where it declines - sure, MUCH more power is developed, but the MAXIMUM/MINIMUM RPM vs power points remain essentially unchanged.



BUT if you look at the power level portion of the displayed curve that lies ABOVE the 400 ft lbs mark, it is obviously LOTS more on the 5x5 setting, plus, WITH the Comp, the 400 ft lbs level is obtained a couple of hundred RPM lower than stock - and THAT is what creates the improved performance and driveability - the Comp on 5x5 reaches maximum power at about 2000 RPM - and much more power than on the stock setting, which reaches (lower) maximum at a higher 2300 or so RPM.



All in all, rather similar shaped CURVE, but considerably more usable power RPM vs RPM - and THAT is what a power CURVE tells you! But what it DOESN'T show you, is what happens in routine, normal daily driving scenarios under moderate throttle applications - after all, MOST of us don't drive every day with our foot to the floor!



In earlier years, various intake manifold and camshaft makers developed and marketed products that increased MAXIMUM power - but frequently sacrificed LOW and midrange RPM power and driveability to do so - a radical engine that did well on a dragstrip or dyno at a high RPM might drive like crap out on the streets in daily driving because all it's performance was necessarily focused on maximum RPM operation.



That was fine, IF you didn't mind doing virtually ALL your daily driving up around 5000 RPM... ;)



As technology improved, we have gained 24 valve engines that give good performance across a wider power band, and various computer controls to further enhance that performance. This is one reason for the excellent flexibility and instant performance response of computer controlled injecton pumps like the VP-44 and latest High Pressure Fuel Rail designs - they can easily provide the greater instant changes in fuel timing and volume to meet rapidly changing loads - and do it in efficiency only DREAMED of with previous purely mechanical pumps.



NOW, we come to add-on boxes like the EZ, Comp, and others - we see what they will do as displayed in my graphs above - there are also other mechanical mods like larger injectors in the same price/performance class that can be used instead, or together with the "magic boxes" for increased power...



Now we have the MAD setup - and it is only reasonable that we ask questions and try to make an informed and intelligent selection as to what will best fit our needs and wallets - we know from established experience what stuff like the EZ, Comp and injectors will do - many of those makers have already provided dyno graphs like mine to SHOW what we can reasonably expect.



NONE of this is even SLIGHTLY intended to take anything away from Marco or his product - but so far, all we have on the MAD setup are seat-of-the-pants impressions and vague "guestimates as to what is actually being produced in overall power/performance. Eventually, we may well have the same documented info from Marco and those he is working with - as well as users as they accumulate miles on their units.



Meanwhile, all we can do is ask well-intended questions - after all, it IS our money and our trucks - and we DO have other similar power enhancing options at our disposal in the same general price range! ;) :D
 
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A well layed out lesson Gary, thank you. I do look forward to dyno numbers too. Unfortunatly, I probably won't be able to provide any either, but I'll be very happy to make my own subjective evaluation & comparison with the EZ. My biggest problem with the EZ has been smoke control. Even on jumper #1, I have to exercise way to much restraint below 10psi. Smokeless driving with the 1. 5's is much easier with out the EZ. If eliminating the smoke issue is all Marco's marvel does for me I'll be a happy camper.
 
Maybe we all should wait to see for real what exactly the gains are from the Marco ECM. Until any of this is proven, nobody knows for sure what these will do for Tq/HP.



So, why speculate until the numbers are on the dyno sheet, if that is what you want?



It will be nice to find out what and where the power is going to be on the TQ/HP curve, but who is going to do the testing?
 
Hopefully you aren't referring to me---100's of chassis & water brake dyno pulls haven't confused me yet.



Shucks, YOU should have written my post! ;) :D
 
My brother has a Dynojet, and the optical trigger is on order so he can run Diesels. As soon as it gets here, if someone wants to send me a catcher, I'll be glad to test it and return it. But it would be really nice if I could keep it!:rolleyes: :D If anyone with one is going to be in the area, let me know. The trigger is on back order, so I don't know for sure when it will arrive, hopefully soon.

Bruce
 
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Well, you can either shi?? or get off of the pot. What is another $500 at this stage of the game. Naysayers are not pioneers! My warranty is f^&ked anyhow so what is the diff? My ECM was sent to Italy this last friday. Looking for it back bout the 26th. I WILL let you know how it works and back it up with numbers. Do you all want to contribute to my dyno charges before you make up your mind? I can understand questions and reluctance but... . nothing ventured, nothing gained.



Regards,



Roger
 
Do you all want to contribute to my dyno charges before you make up your mind?



YUP - all that SOUNDS big and bold - but face it, we didn't hafta PAY outfits like Edge or Diesel dynamics to provide solid info on what performance could be expected from their stuff - THEY provided as part of their research and development to avoid forcing their customers to do it FOR them!



Naysayers are not pioneers!



NOPE - but the pioneers didn't suggest others PAY THEM for sticking their necks out, either! ;)



Good for you for tossing caution to the winds - and maybe yer $$$ as well - but many of us already have enough power mods installed that carelessly investing in what may largely be a duplication of what we already have in terms of gains received, is not wise either...



YMMV!
 
You know what Gary? I wouldn't and don't expect anything from but perhaps some civility. You want to talk about DD and EDGE?



I seriously doubt you even have a DD product on your truck and do I need to quote what you have said about Edge before? Your truck is barely modified at best. I've seen it and you (how could I miss you at May Madness 2003 with KJ6 written everywhere. ) I've seen what you tow and while you appear to write reasonably intelligently about various subjects, really all you do is taking an opposing opinion without being able to back it up.



I don't care what you do. I offered my point of view of what I am up to and even if Marco's ECM isn't the best thing since sliced bread, I am willing to give it a try sight unseen on the strength of Marco's hard work and the words of my friends (Bob Wagner, Mike R, TCourse and RHansen among others). If the product doesn't work as advertised, my loss, not yours, but at least I will have had the balls to try verses you who just kibitzs from the sidelines. Go big or stay home!



Have a nice day... ... ... ... ... .....
 
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