Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) caTCHER ecm (Marco's aka MAD)

[Mr. C]

A couple burning questions

It works like this:

The ECM sends it's signal to the VP. The VP executes that command and injects the requested fuel with the requested timing by the ECM. The box adds then ANOTHER injection stroke AFTER the "main" injection stroke from the ECM. That's possible because the VP's have been designed for TWO injection strokes by Bosch from the beginning. The major fuelling boxes do "activate" an function that's already there but has not been used by Cummins. That can be easily seen hooking up a scope to the pump wire...



Clear as mud?



From the above it's also clear that:

1) Those boxes add fuel with a retarted timing ( the second stroke takes place later )

2) The EGT's will raise to abnormal levels ( late timing and more fuel )

3) These boxes sqeeze out as much fuel as the VP has in the plungers...



The CaTCHER does NOT add that second injection thus it remains within the save limits of the VP.



Marco

First let me say Marco, you are the man!!!



I do have a few things to ask after reading this incredibly long thread.



1) Refering to the quote above if I understand correctly would it be posible to program the VP to have a small pilot injection event before the main injection event in the manner that the commonrail system does to quiet the engine at idle? As long as the user has no fuelling box attached to the signal wire there is still a injection event waiting to be used right? Just wondering if a quieter idle could be had.



2) Also I have one of the handheld programers mentioned and it does add a little to the performance of my otherwise stock truck, it is like a little brother version of the DRBIII with a couple software programs in it to upload to the ECM and code reading/resetting functions. I wonder if the wimpy software tables in this unit could be replaced by a Marco-fied version that you have worked so hard on. I could send it to you if you would like to examine it to see if it is possible. The thing I really like about this little thing is that it saves your stock program in its memory before it uploads the new program and you can switch back and forth between them in less than 5 min. if you need to go see the dealer for any reason. I'm not trying to step on any toes but it seems to me that the spare ECM market is very limited and a "MAD Programmer" would be awesome. You could e-mail software versions to the customer and they could upload the new version to thier programmer via the serial port on the hand held device. Just a thought, the programmers are close in price to a modified ECM... . If you build it they will come.



Another observation for the masses if you have ever had a reflash done by a dealer your software version number is on the tag on the hood next to the latch mechanism, it is a federal requirment that they put this sticker with the numbers on it if they alter the factory program of the ECM.



Did I mention this is a long thread :--)

Regards, Mike

 

[smittybuilt]

marco, i was just wondering if the ecm i sent was good. i bought it used. name should be jimmy smith. thanks.

 

[SmokinJoe]

1) Refering to the quote above if I understand correctly would it be posible to program the VP to have a small pilot injection event before the main injection event in the manner that the commonrail system does to quiet the engine at idle?



2) Also I have one of the handheld programers mentioned and it does add a little to the performance of my otherwise stock truck, it is like a little brother version of the DRBIII with a couple software programs in it to upload to the ECM and code reading/resetting functions.

Quiet idle would be awesome.



I would rather pay Marco the extra cash than the junkyard or anyone else for the spate ECM.

 

[Bob Wagner]

Quiet idle would be awesome.



I would rather pay Marco the extra cash than the junkyard or anyone else for the spate ECM.

excuse me... does marco have spare ecm's to sell? I have busted my hump to be able to find any ecm's that are verified good, working and are not PCM's



check with marco



ok thanks

 

[Marco]

All,

Good Morning, Well it's night over there and most are sleeping... .

See what you've done, while you sleep I have to work... . :{ :-laf



I have no spare ECM's for sale. How could I??? It's difficult for you to find them, let's only say here in Italy/Europe. If anything the opposite is true!

I'd need a new ECM for my truck. Mine is so broke that I have to fix it every other day. Lately, I've had no time to fix it, so I'm driving arround with a bad spare ECM that runs in limp mode... . Can you say slowwww....



Mr. C

I'm working on a PC based system for flashing the ECM's. Believe me it's a task! I'm nowhere near to have it finished. It took Superchips close to three years to develop their handheld toy... It took me close to four years to develop the CaTCHER. I don't have the financial resurces they do... Got the picture?



It's clear that a system similar to Superchips would be the ultimate answer for the flashing needs. [( When combined with softwares that add real performance )( You call theirs "whimpy")]. Today Doug and I do what we CAN do. In the future... .



At the beginning we worked on the software(s). Then we wanted multiple files. Then we wanted more performance form the software(s). Then we tried this and that. Finally the CaTCHER was created. Then we needed to debug the CaTCHER which meant, test, test, test... .

Now we want a handheld progammer...



In that way, one will NEVER get to the market! It's like waiting for the latest and greatest vehicle... one never buys and has to walk...



The VP was designed for an after injection event, not for an pilot injection.

Again, for a guy like me it's impossible to create the after injection event through the ECM. I'd need the source code for both the Cummins and VP software to do it. No way to get it... .



smittybuilt,

Your ECM works.



I've checked the TRK#'s for Murle's and Eric's ECM's. They should be delivered today. Let's see if I get BBQed.



I have the all the ECM's ready here to ship 'em back to Doug. At this point I will ship them tomorrow. I first want to see if Eric's and Murle's work fine...



Yesterday, Darkhorse has shipped me his original ECM to find out about the problems with the electronic CC. Looks like the last problems will be sorted out in a short time.



Thanks,



Marco

 

[DAWG-1]

New Ecm

I have 8 new ECMs for sale. Send an e-mail or call 425-355-3915. Some of these are on there way back from Marco programmed . Sam

 

[Jetpilot]

I have been looking at the different dyno graphs guys are providing when using the CaTCHER ecm and it appears all are loosing HP. I kinda expexcted not to see a gain on the peak HP but I did expect to see some serious gains down low, yet even low trucks were down on HP... ... . Does anyone have any dyno graphs from say 1000 rpm up?



Doug

 

[Murle]

ECM is here and installed. Looks like no BBQ. Peddle works... . Marco has to it working right this time I think. Only drove it a couple of miles. CC is a little up and down but it works. I think it will learn itself as time goes on. This ECM does have a lot of low end power and get up and go. Have not seen a lot of smoke yet. Will post more later.

 

[darkhorse]

Looks like not BBQ. This ECM does have a lot of low end power and get up and go. enjoy the ride, Murle. You've sure waited long enough.

 

[darkhorse]

I have been looking at the different dyno graphs guys are providing when using the CaTCHER ecm



I've seen battering Ram's dyno graphs. Are there others you could point me to?

 

[Marco]

HeheheheheheheheheheheheheHahahahahahahahahaaa

Murle sez:

ECM is here and installed. Looks like no BBQ. Peddle works...



Hurraaaahhhhhhh, pfuiiii, ha ha he he yeeeehhhaaawwwwwwww

( Can you see me lauging and jumping arround??)



No BBQ for poor Murle...



Marco: :-laf :-laf Oo.

Murle : :-{} :{



Murle, c'mon please now don't cry! You can't have everything! Or a BBQ or a working ECM... . LOL



MAN I feel better now! To tell you the truth, I was thinking how to hide a good fire extinguisher in someplace near to Murles BBQ. Just in case...



Marco

 

[Murle]

Well, Marco you deserve a pat on the back. Hard work does pay off. Heck I was not really looking forward to BBQ an Italian. I head they don't cook too well Kind of taste like Chicken..... :-laf We Texan's are beef eaters.

 

[Marco]

Kind of taste like Chicken.....



Chicken? What chicken???



Correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it Marco = Donkey???



Seriously now,

Please tell us ASAP what you find out about the CaTCHER!

Hey, BTW your ECM works... Great menas that also Eric's will do the same.



What a relief... .



Marco

 

[darkhorse]

& to think, all this time I thought you Texan's ate armadillo...

 

[Murle]

The original was... Going to have a Donkey BBQ. That is a SSA eating meeting.



No, we don't eat armadillo we just let them drink our beer. And use them for speed bumps...



Have got to do more planting of wheat this evening but will give the ecm a test going home this evening. That is about a 10 mile drive. Got about 6 red lights to go thru. Now you watch I'll hit them and they will all be green. :{ This will most likely be the only time I'll wish they were all red.

 

[Marco]

Dyno #

Let me try to address the dyno thing one more time.



For the guys into the highest possible Hp on the dyno game.

Sorry to tell you that, the CaTCHER ain't the right toy for you.



That's simply because I've tailored that file with only one thing in mind.



Daily driving on the road.



Yes this file is for the guys who want a fast moving daily driver. Off the line throttle response is greatly improved but that's not all. Timing is adjusted in order to obtain the best possible MPG. ( Watch out for your right foot... ) and the power curve IS as linear as possible up to 3. 2K Rpm. That last thing seems to be noticed very little... Probably because with the CaTCHER there's almost no need to rev the engine that high. ( On the road! )



Will that be shown by a roller? I don't know. I don't know why it does not show up . And to tell you the truth I don't care. Too many variables are involved. Because one particular truck gains or looses a few Hp... with what mods???? What dyno? What operator?



I know, sounds like Marco is on an ego trip. Well, just ask the guys with a CaTCHER in their truck. It's been said here that they're crazy to "believe" in a BOMB without numbers to back it up. Well maybe it's better you get to drive a CaTCHER equipped truck on the ROAD, then you'll understand.



What I KNOW is that the same truck with the CaTCHER in it is no longer the vehicle it used to be. It moves much quicker...



It's not that the software for the ECM could not be tailored for the dyno game. It's in what I choose to do. For the street I have to address different things than for the Dyno and vice versa.



Clear as mud?



Marco

 

[Jetpilot]

Marco,



I am not saying that your ecm doea not work, in fact I am very interested in it! But that being said a dyno does show before and after gains/losses. As long as the test is constant then the results would be valid.



I was expecting to see gains down low in the rpm band and not at peak HP, so I was surprised when the dyno sheets offered a different picture. I have made many mods to my truck that I thought worked but upon using a non-biased data gathering machine (dyno) I realized that the truck was not doing what I thought.



I think to really evaluate a product there needs to be some standardized form of testing..... Normally a product that we purchase has an advertised gain that one should expect. Injectors and boxes come with HP ratings that can be backed up on a dyno.



Please do not take this a bashing, I think that you are onto a good thing. I would just like to see some scientific data to back up whats being said.



Doug

 

[Murle]

It is easier for someone that has either owned or driven a 12 valve very much to understand what I'm going to say... .



I had a 98 12 valve 5 speed... When I bought this 2001 5 speed 24 valve, I thought I had messed up. The 24V did not respond like the 12V did. That is why I have modified my 24V. By the way my 12V never was modified. And always ran better than my unmodified 24V.



My first impression with the CaTHER on this 24V is that it now responds off the line like my 12V did. That is the best way I can explain it and anyone that has owned a 12V and now owns or have driven a 24V with no modes knows what I mean. For you 12V owners that do not want to give up their old 12V for a 24V... . The CaTHER my be your answer to make a 24V act like a 12V off the line.

 

[RCone]

Observation: DO NOT go over speed bumps or railroad tracks, especially if wet, with foot on the go pedal with a truck that has 30#+ of air in the airlifts and 60psi and 75psi respectively in the tires (all this preparatory to pulling my 5ver this weekend).



Roger

 

[Murle]

One other thing... If you dyno a unmodified 12V 215 Hp and dyno a unmodified 24V 235 Hp.

The 24V will show more HP. But it does not have the same response and the 12V.

This is what the CaTHER does to the 24V... . Makes it act and respond like the old mechanical 12V.



As Maro would say... . Clear as mud????