Attention: TDR Forum Junkies 
"Gary, reading ( not actually, too much stuff, I remember what you said ) what you said in this thread, you were wanting a CaTCHER but wanted to know dyno numbers first. Bob provided us those numbers. Still not enough, you want now dyno #'s for CaTCHER combined with different boxes. Then it's that your box is better, adjustabel, more Hp... . blah blah blah...
Marco, that's an outright LIE - apparently your "memory" is faulty! I have NEVER made ANY claim as to my intention as "wanting a CaTCHER but wanted to know dyno numbers first. " IF you can provide ANY post of mine where I made such a claim, DO SO NOW!
Sure, I HAVE asked - as many others have - for dyno documented info on the actual performance of your CATCHER, both on it's own, and in combination with other power mods - but NEVER gave the slightest claim or intention that such information was all I needed to put my money on the line for one - can you show where I EVER said otherwise?
And I for one, do NOT appreciate folks deliberately, maliciously distorting my comments, or assigning statements or intentions to me falsely, as you have done above!
I have CONSISTENTLY treated your product with respect, and you with respect mixed with complimentary comments:
"As far as Marco and his ECM, I consider him a genius, and have the GREATEST respect for his ability and integrity!"
another?
"I applaud Marco for his candor and what appears to be an excellent upgrade for our ECMS - Thanks for all your effort and help Marco"
and:
"I have consistently expressed faith im Marco's ability - he's undoubtedly FORGOTTEN more about ECM function than the collective membership here ever KNEW!"
In response to personal attacks on ME, and my motivation for participation in this thread, I early on responded with:
"I in NO WAY, now or earlier, have "opposed" anything concerning the MAD setup - only asked various questions as the various aspects of it's performance - both on it's own, and as compared to other readily available products in the same power and price class - why is that seen by you as unusual or unreasonable - why does it bother you?"
I have gone back over my personal posts in this thread *3* times to verify what I claim above, and HERE are my posts over the first third of this thread - I challenge ANYONE to show where ANY of my posts here have been abusive, excessively critical, or where I have in ANY way abused Marco or his work!
==========
I, for one, will be following this VERY closely - if anyone has a projected price for these, would appreciate a PM...
Sure would be interesting to see some before/after dyno info with this mod...
How is the reflash accomplished - I'm sure Marco isn't about to send out a CD or similar - do ya hafta send the ECM to Itally to be done, or what?
Bob, haven't been looking in a dedicated manner, but sure haven't run across any leads in response to a few vague comments like the above - typical salvage yard prices in this part of the country run about 50% of list price for most components - dunno about electronic stuff, since they usually won't guarantee electronic stuff, maybe the pricing structure is different... I sure wouldn't wanna spend 50% of list for a no-guarantee ECM!
There's a rather obvious need for SOME sort of plan - not many guys want to spend the extra $$$$ for a "spare" ECM, OR face the downtime sending their units off to Italy involves...
A question for Marco - you have indicated that a programming chip inside the ECM is swapped out - is that the ONLY change, or are there others? If the chip is the only change, is the original returned in case an owner wants/needs to return the ECM to original operation?
I'll also be VERY inrerested in seeing what effect adding something like an EZ does to Marco's mod - and also wonder what the difficulty is in eliminating the rev limiter INSIDE the ECM, when the Drag Comp is fully capable of doing it EXTERNALLY... .
Which is EXACTLY why, as much as I respect Marco's expertise - *I* will gladly sit back and watch for a while to see how these mods work out over the longer haul - and for the early testers, seems a good idea to have a ready souuce of backup ECM available "just in case"...
Glad we are getting some of the minor issues out of the way - fewer unresolved issues = LESS unhappy or disgruntled costomers!
Now I better understand the CC issue as it applies to '02 trucks - and I'm like the guy further above who stated his serious need for CC - I have had 2 back surgeries, but earlier back problems have left me with some nerve damage to my feet and lower legs - CC is an absolute MUST for me on longer trips - and my truck is used for RV towing in exactly those types of scenarios!
Some consider me a nit-picker on a few issues - but while some mistatement of fact is understandable from a casual user, I feel it is important to be a bit more precise when dealing with the actual MAKER of a product (bypass oil filters comes to mind... ) in order to not create confusion or misunderstanding - I applaud Marco for his candor and what appears to be an excellent upgrade for our ECMS - Thanks for all your effort and help Marco!
Marco, I've seem similar new products hit the scene before, and this sort of hash and rehash, along with well intended but erroneous statements and assumptions. It's just part of the baptism for the developer, applied by the curious and concerned who want to know as EXACTLY as possible what they might be getting themselves into - bad enough with a developer and product inside our own borders - more complicated and requiring even greater trust when it's from "way over yonder"! Buck up, take a few deep breaths, make LOTS of allowances for us less knowledgeable fumblers, and keep pressing on - most of us deeply appreciate it.
I'll be very surprised if the HP/tq curve on a dyno changes radically with the new ECM programming, because on a dyno, you are in full accelleration mode with EITHER ECM - the difference most are reporting here is throttle response in lighter accellerator applications in normal driving situations - THOSE conditions, as compared with a wide open run MIGHT be quite different, and not be as noticeable on a dyno, all else being equal...
Keep in mind, I am talking about the power CURVE, not the actual power readings.
This new approach will inevitably be compared to other types like the Comp or EZ - even Marco made such a comparison - so getting it all documented with that in mind would be perfect - and then there are those who already have something like the EZ or Comp installed, and will want to know if those can still be used and to what benefit - or danger...
To put it more exactly, here is what Marco said:
Anyway I doubt that the M. A. D. ECM will show anything special on the dyno. Probably the top numbers shown on a dyno would be in the range of what an EZ does. The CaTCHER is all about driveability and FUN to drive.
In other words, and to reinforce my comments as to expected changes in power curves - probably NONE in dyno scenarios, and actual power increase about the same as an EZ...
So now, a lingering question is, is there a significant improvement over what is already obtainable with a Comp - that gives BETTER power gains than an EZ, and at least on mine, greatly improves low end power, throttle response and driveability. The downside for some with the Comp is the potential for VP-44 problems and warranty issues due to wire piercing...
I saw a VERY similar performance product incubate over on a Camaro board - fella name Dave Inall in Australia came on offering to develop and market a twin-turbo setup for the Camaros - he had developed a similar setup for Corvettes for outfits like Lingenfelter - so what he wanted was a minimum of 100 guys to pay something like $5000 *each* up front for a system he would THEN develop - prices for later buyers would be more like $7000.
We got into discussions on that issue VERY similar to THIS one - but 100 guys stepped up - yeah, THEY were big, bold and mouthy too - and than felt compelled to loudly and verbally attack any who DARED question or criticise what was going on, or ask specific questions as to what this proposed system would deliver...
Months dragged by - about 3 system I know of finally were delivered amid LOTS of hoopla and squeals of delight among the faithful - then NOTHING! Investors got nervous - more months - and finally, news that Inall had declared bankruptcy, and could not be reached. The cheers of joy, the squeals of delight were all gone...
Yeah, THIS is a much different product and situation - but the basic premise is still the same - a new product, regardless of WHO makes it, comes subject to questions and caution by most - there will always be the few who will plunge in, and it is THEIR willingness and aggressive character that may eventually benefit the rest of us as the product proves out and further develops...
But NONE of us who are of a more cautious nature, NEED or APPRECIATE your apparent compulsion to begin direct and personal attacks on our rather benign questioning or comments aimed purely at a PRODUCT! What I drive and tow, and what I have installed on my truck or have "plastered" on it or my trailer are NOT the issue - only a "tool" you have selected for personal ridicule - KNOCK IT OFF!
Marco, that's an outright LIE - apparently your "memory" is faulty! I have NEVER made ANY claim as to my intention as "wanting a CaTCHER but wanted to know dyno numbers first. " IF you can provide ANY post of mine where I made such a claim, DO SO NOW!
Sure, I HAVE asked - as many others have - for dyno documented info on the actual performance of your CATCHER, both on it's own, and in combination with other power mods - but NEVER gave the slightest claim or intention that such information was all I needed to put my money on the line for one - can you show where I EVER said otherwise?
And I for one, do NOT appreciate folks deliberately, maliciously distorting my comments, or assigning statements or intentions to me falsely, as you have done above!
I have CONSISTENTLY treated your product with respect, and you with respect mixed with complimentary comments:
"As far as Marco and his ECM, I consider him a genius, and have the GREATEST respect for his ability and integrity!"
another?
"I applaud Marco for his candor and what appears to be an excellent upgrade for our ECMS - Thanks for all your effort and help Marco"
and:
"I have consistently expressed faith im Marco's ability - he's undoubtedly FORGOTTEN more about ECM function than the collective membership here ever KNEW!"
In response to personal attacks on ME, and my motivation for participation in this thread, I early on responded with:
"I in NO WAY, now or earlier, have "opposed" anything concerning the MAD setup - only asked various questions as the various aspects of it's performance - both on it's own, and as compared to other readily available products in the same power and price class - why is that seen by you as unusual or unreasonable - why does it bother you?"
I have gone back over my personal posts in this thread *3* times to verify what I claim above, and HERE are my posts over the first third of this thread - I challenge ANYONE to show where ANY of my posts here have been abusive, excessively critical, or where I have in ANY way abused Marco or his work!
==========
I, for one, will be following this VERY closely - if anyone has a projected price for these, would appreciate a PM...
Sure would be interesting to see some before/after dyno info with this mod...
How is the reflash accomplished - I'm sure Marco isn't about to send out a CD or similar - do ya hafta send the ECM to Itally to be done, or what?
Bob, haven't been looking in a dedicated manner, but sure haven't run across any leads in response to a few vague comments like the above - typical salvage yard prices in this part of the country run about 50% of list price for most components - dunno about electronic stuff, since they usually won't guarantee electronic stuff, maybe the pricing structure is different... I sure wouldn't wanna spend 50% of list for a no-guarantee ECM!
There's a rather obvious need for SOME sort of plan - not many guys want to spend the extra $$$$ for a "spare" ECM, OR face the downtime sending their units off to Italy involves...
A question for Marco - you have indicated that a programming chip inside the ECM is swapped out - is that the ONLY change, or are there others? If the chip is the only change, is the original returned in case an owner wants/needs to return the ECM to original operation?
I'll also be VERY inrerested in seeing what effect adding something like an EZ does to Marco's mod - and also wonder what the difficulty is in eliminating the rev limiter INSIDE the ECM, when the Drag Comp is fully capable of doing it EXTERNALLY... .
Which is EXACTLY why, as much as I respect Marco's expertise - *I* will gladly sit back and watch for a while to see how these mods work out over the longer haul - and for the early testers, seems a good idea to have a ready souuce of backup ECM available "just in case"...
Glad we are getting some of the minor issues out of the way - fewer unresolved issues = LESS unhappy or disgruntled costomers!
Now I better understand the CC issue as it applies to '02 trucks - and I'm like the guy further above who stated his serious need for CC - I have had 2 back surgeries, but earlier back problems have left me with some nerve damage to my feet and lower legs - CC is an absolute MUST for me on longer trips - and my truck is used for RV towing in exactly those types of scenarios!
Some consider me a nit-picker on a few issues - but while some mistatement of fact is understandable from a casual user, I feel it is important to be a bit more precise when dealing with the actual MAKER of a product (bypass oil filters comes to mind... ) in order to not create confusion or misunderstanding - I applaud Marco for his candor and what appears to be an excellent upgrade for our ECMS - Thanks for all your effort and help Marco!
Marco, I've seem similar new products hit the scene before, and this sort of hash and rehash, along with well intended but erroneous statements and assumptions. It's just part of the baptism for the developer, applied by the curious and concerned who want to know as EXACTLY as possible what they might be getting themselves into - bad enough with a developer and product inside our own borders - more complicated and requiring even greater trust when it's from "way over yonder"! Buck up, take a few deep breaths, make LOTS of allowances for us less knowledgeable fumblers, and keep pressing on - most of us deeply appreciate it.
I'll be very surprised if the HP/tq curve on a dyno changes radically with the new ECM programming, because on a dyno, you are in full accelleration mode with EITHER ECM - the difference most are reporting here is throttle response in lighter accellerator applications in normal driving situations - THOSE conditions, as compared with a wide open run MIGHT be quite different, and not be as noticeable on a dyno, all else being equal...
Keep in mind, I am talking about the power CURVE, not the actual power readings.
This new approach will inevitably be compared to other types like the Comp or EZ - even Marco made such a comparison - so getting it all documented with that in mind would be perfect - and then there are those who already have something like the EZ or Comp installed, and will want to know if those can still be used and to what benefit - or danger...
To put it more exactly, here is what Marco said:
Anyway I doubt that the M. A. D. ECM will show anything special on the dyno. Probably the top numbers shown on a dyno would be in the range of what an EZ does. The CaTCHER is all about driveability and FUN to drive.
In other words, and to reinforce my comments as to expected changes in power curves - probably NONE in dyno scenarios, and actual power increase about the same as an EZ...
So now, a lingering question is, is there a significant improvement over what is already obtainable with a Comp - that gives BETTER power gains than an EZ, and at least on mine, greatly improves low end power, throttle response and driveability. The downside for some with the Comp is the potential for VP-44 problems and warranty issues due to wire piercing...
I saw a VERY similar performance product incubate over on a Camaro board - fella name Dave Inall in Australia came on offering to develop and market a twin-turbo setup for the Camaros - he had developed a similar setup for Corvettes for outfits like Lingenfelter - so what he wanted was a minimum of 100 guys to pay something like $5000 *each* up front for a system he would THEN develop - prices for later buyers would be more like $7000.
We got into discussions on that issue VERY similar to THIS one - but 100 guys stepped up - yeah, THEY were big, bold and mouthy too - and than felt compelled to loudly and verbally attack any who DARED question or criticise what was going on, or ask specific questions as to what this proposed system would deliver...
Months dragged by - about 3 system I know of finally were delivered amid LOTS of hoopla and squeals of delight among the faithful - then NOTHING! Investors got nervous - more months - and finally, news that Inall had declared bankruptcy, and could not be reached. The cheers of joy, the squeals of delight were all gone...
Yeah, THIS is a much different product and situation - but the basic premise is still the same - a new product, regardless of WHO makes it, comes subject to questions and caution by most - there will always be the few who will plunge in, and it is THEIR willingness and aggressive character that may eventually benefit the rest of us as the product proves out and further develops...
But NONE of us who are of a more cautious nature, NEED or APPRECIATE your apparent compulsion to begin direct and personal attacks on our rather benign questioning or comments aimed purely at a PRODUCT! What I drive and tow, and what I have installed on my truck or have "plastered" on it or my trailer are NOT the issue - only a "tool" you have selected for personal ridicule - KNOCK IT OFF!
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Oo. 
can you say clean 
brand new
