Chrysler response to Dead Pedal

[Bill]

I would love to have you send me that link. Many tks.

 

[Bill]

Strange that you should mention this. Yesterday I went to our local Pilot truck stop. They have (which I bought) a thing you can put just about any place in your truck. This thing runs on memory chips and comes with a 8mb one. However I upgraded the memory by buying a much larger chip. You can place this on your dash and it will record all that is ongoing as you look down the road, you can speak into it and it will pick up a conversation with other people in the cab or talking to you through a window. It has a very small screen on it and after you record something, you can then run it back and watch it on this screen. Going over to a friend of mine who has the same truck I do and see if I can find a place to mount it so it will show the RPM's, record my voice when the truck goes into dead pedal, etc. So basically it is a minature video camera. It's legal here in Oregon and if stopped by a police officer, you can turn the screen towards him and record him and anything he has to say.

 

[Bill]

First let me say that I do apologize about your headaches. Second, if you feel that manufactures don't make trucks with as many problems as mine ~ well there isn't much more I can say to convience you.

I treat people with respect until they start treating me otherwise.

I didn't realize I was being such a pain in the butt by what I had posted. Rest assured it will never happen again. However, I will make one additional post and that will be the final outcome of my problems.

 

[garrettg84]

However, I will make one additional post and that will be the final outcome of my problems.

Maybe 2 posts...one additional post to show us the data you collect with the obd2 reader and torque app if you pick it up? Somebody knowledgeable on these things may see the timing of the readout and be able to tell you exactly what is wrong.

 

[TCDiesel]

Aw Bill your OK........Sag2 just was talking by illustrations......I deal with RAM all the time, in some cases it took up 3 months to resolve... I do think just change your driving Habits a little until the Problem is resolved...Like I mention earlier We had a Freightliner with Mercedes Eaton 8 speed that was horrible for dead pedal, but the drivers were more careful and never had any incidents attributed to it. We did trade it in after the lease was up.

 

[Newsa]

How do I post a question? Do you have to be a paying member to initiate a new post?

 

[DonFitzwater]

How do I post a question? Do you have to be a paying member to initiate a new post?

How did you post on here? Are you on a trial membership?

 

[Newsa]

I think so. I didn't pay

 

[sag2]

Don't get me wrong, I want you to be satisfied with your truck. You can ask anyone you trust on this forum if I don't do everything I can with the resources available to me to get things repaired. There are lots of resources available and I think I gave you pretty sound advice. You can choose to follow it, or not, it's your choice. But so far I sense your approach isn't working out so well. I have had people I know search and contacted Star looking for "dead pedal" and so far they have not come up with any concerns, including yours. So that concerns me if the information is getting to the dealer but not to the engineers.
And to clarify, the dealer can do any diagnosis he feels necessary to resolve your problem. He only needs the nod from them to perform any repairs. He either does not understand the ECS program, or he isn't being up front with you. So there are members here willing to get additional resources in the form of Area Managers or Technical Advisors involved that are local to your truck, but you have to ask, and provide the necessary information to get the ball rolling. I don't know what else we have to offer.

 

[Bill]

Let me say Sag2, you did give me pretty good advice. Furthermore, there is "nobody" on this forum that I have any reason to not trust!! The dealer, although he and I have not seen things in the same manner, has contacted Chrysler when I was sitting in front of him, at his desk. He gave a verbal explanation pertaining to my problems and followed that up with an e-mail to Chrysler and then followed that up by faxing the information. Chrysler made no attempt to contact the dealer via any form of communication with the exception of an e-mail stating that the dealership/Service Mgr IS NOT AUTHORIZED TO DO ANY WORK ON MY TRUCK UNTIL HE HEARS BACK FROM THE ENGINEERS AT CHRYSLER. The service mgr made many attempts, through different channels within Chrysler's maze of Department heads but to no avail. "I" made the initial formal complaint with Chrysler, was assigned a case #. Ser. Mgr was assigned a case #. Both of these cases were turned over to ECS. I am more than aware how this department works going back to 2012 when I filed a complaint about my 2012 Dodge 2500. I received a call from ECS, gave info to this guy and he is to call me back next tues. I will say this about individuals who work in the ECS department and I base it on my personal dealings with many of them.
They call you pretending to be "your" claim service rep, to help you through all your problems, etc. The two who I actually had a chance to speak with ~ Greg yesterday and one out of five women a couple of years ago ~ want you to give them your story although they already have information sent from the dealership. While asking them some technical questions for which they brought up the subject, they either act like they don't have a clue what you are talking about or they know one h*** of a lot more than they are willing to tell you.

Well your negative search for the dead pedal problem may not mean that there are individuals out there who have not heard about it. To make a long story short, the Ser. mgr and one of the engineers from Chrysler both agree that I indeed have this problems ~ engine lag and dead pedal. Additionally I have an "engine lag" problem that is recognized and according to Chrysler, it is in all the Dodge diesels although I don't know how far it goes back beyond 2012. I posted on here that Chrysler has a built in safety feature in case there is a run away engine. If that happens, you just apply the brake and take your foot off the pedal. I rode with the ser. mgr. and he put my truck into this engine lag by doing exactly that. Somebody on here said there was no such thing ~ well seeing is believing. The ser. mgr. documented, while driving my truck, engine lag five times and dead pedal three times. When you put your foot on the brake the ECM light is suppose to come on. It did that with the ser. mgr. It also did it when I rode with him. What is confusing is the owners manual states when this happens, IMMEDIATELY take the vehicle to a dealer or have it towed in. Ser. mgr e-mailed Chrysler but received no reply. So, according to the owners manual, if this light, while on, is so important to immediately drive to the nearest dealership or have the vehicle towed, then my question to Chrysler is why they are being so negative and not responding to ser. mgr's and my concerns?

So, the ser. mgr. is working within "his" limiations in an attempt to solve this ongoing problem. I am more confused about this issue when you stated; "I have had people I know search and contacted Star looking for "dead pedal" and so far they have not come up with any concerns, including yours..... Based on that statement then am I to assume that nobody on this forum has contacted enough people including Star?? When Greg from ECS contacted me, I gave him the link to this site and told him to read it in case he doesn't understand that indeed there is a problem. So now the ball is in either my so called advocate or the engineers court or both.

For just a second, let's just deal with the dead pedal issue. You said my approach wasn't working out so well. So if the dead pedal is the major part of this issue, why haven't others followed your advice, had the problem fixed and then posted back how it was accomplished? Again, you gave me good advice ~ I then have to assume that advice is also available to others and based on this problem as one that is ongoing, again, I don't understand why anybody on this forum is still having the dead pedal issue.

My initial approach to this problem was to explain it to the ser. mgr, who for some initial reason, didn't believe me. I approached it in a logical and professional manner, expressing no anger. However, as time passed and nothing was being done, I am only human. You can push a man until you have him in a corner but sooner or later he will take no more. I reached that point with the dealer and ser. mgr. and Chrysler. I learned a long time ago in life that if you want to know the truth, one must be able to pursue it. I could take your offer for help and may still do that. However, after "digging" around, talking to mech's, etc, the service mgr. has been telling me the truth even though at first I refused to believe him. Simply put, he and I are now working together, no longer fighting with each other. So you are correct by saying "your sense of my initial approach isn't working to well ... . " However, my initial approach was based on the dealership/ser. mgr's inability to perform any work on my truck. However, as time passed, talking to the service writers, mech's, etc, totally changed my negative outlook about this dealership and the fact that the responsibility to allow this work to continue forward, was totally due to the inability of Chrysler to authorize "any" work.

About the obd2 reader and torque app. I read all I could about these devices and to be truthful, really don't know how to install them and part of what I read about the information they give out is a duplication of what some of my truck's gauges already show. However, I haven't given up on the idea IF I could find somebody that is extremely thorough with installing them and then explaining how it all comes together. If this truck didn't have the problems it does, my wife and I were talking about selling it, selling our travel trailer, buying a new RV and a Dodge 1500 with the Hemi engine in it. The ECO diesels haven't been out long enough to see what kind of problems they may encounter.

So this is the last post I promised everybody on here. Longer than h*** but I'm known for rambling on.

 

[RVTRKN]

Sometimes you need to insist on satisfaction, when I bought my 2500, I was having a problem holding the truck and boat on the launch ramp with the emergency brake. I took it back to the dealer and they adjusted the E brake, although it felt the same, I continued to have the same problem. It wasn't until I lost my patience and started to DEMAND satisfaction, when I was told my boat must be too heavy for my truck. On the 4th visit, they adjusted it to just shut me up, and when the Porter brought the truck from the service bay and got out of it, with the service manager standing next to me, the Porter stated "The E brake sure seems soft" I wished I had a picture of the service managers face. After it was all said and done, they took it completely apart and found a stripped adjusting nut that would just go back to the same position after adjustment. I did get apologies from the service manager, tech and even the general manager. So, sometimes you have to INSIST on satisfaction, your doing the write thing Bill, and stick to your guns.

 

[Newsa]

Bill,

ECM light = CEL??????, or is there some other light?

Check engine light comes on when applying the brake which indicates
a faulty "runaway truck" safety feature?

Sounds like you are doimg the right thing.


Hope it's not your last post. I have not experienced (not noticed) dead pedal.
But then again I drive conservatively. And have only towed 2500 miles this past year.

I would like to know if it is eventually resolved. It might eventually show up in my truck.
I can tolerate a bit of relatively soft turbo lag. But several seconfs of dead pedal sounds like it is rough on the
occupants as well as the drivetrain.

Please update or repost any progress.

 

[Bill]

My third 2013 1500 Hemi, after I bought it, drove it about ten miles, I noticed the steering wheel shaking and truck pulling to the left. Took it right back to the ser. dept. They took it right back to the service bay and had it for about 1/2 hour. Came out and said they didn't find anything wrong with it although they did not test drive it. Started driving it home again and it did the same thing. Back to the service dept. A young service writer put both hands on the counter, leaned towards me and said; "well here's the deal ~ ALL of these new 2013 Hemi's do this until you drive them 1,000 miles and then everything on the front end breaks in and you won't have this problem. I thanked him, drove immediately to the tire store I've used for years and they aligned the front end. I received a copy of the "before" and "after" readings and drove right back to the dealership. Waited until I had a chance to speak with this young kid. Showed him the read out from the tire store and told him if he ever tried to blow smoke at me again, we would be stepping outside. We became pretty good friends a few months later.

 

[Bill]

ECM light = Electronic Throttle Control light: " This light informs you of a problem with the Electronic Throtle Control (ETC) system. The light will come on when the ignition is first turned on and remain on briefly as a bulb sheck. If the light does not come on during starting, have the system checked by an authorized dealer.

If a problem is detected, the light will come on while the engine is running. Cycle the ignition key when the vehicle has completely stopped and the shift lever is placed in the PARK position. The light should turn off.

If the light remains lit with the engine running, your vehicle will usually be driveable. However, see an authorized dealer for sericde as soon as possible. If the light is flashing when the engine is running, immediate service is required. You may experience reduced performance, an devated/rough idle or engine stall and your vehicle may require towing.

This "blinking" light happened to me quite awhile ago and since then, I've experienced the dead pedal issue. Additionally, since the dead pedal issue started, that is when I heard about the engine lagging if you touch the brake pedal.

No, the Check Engine Light (Malfunction Indicator Light) ~ This is a light that is part of an onboard diagnostic (OBDII) system which monitors the emissions and engine control system. If this light comes on and remains on while driving, it suggests a potential engine control problem and the need for system service. Prolonged driving with this light on could cause damage to the engine control sysgtem. It also could effect fuel economy and divability. If this light is flashing, severe catalytic converter damage and power loss will soon occur. Immediate service is required.

This light has never come on in my truck other than when first starting it. However, the ECM light first showed up on my truck when I stopped for coffee. Make a long story short, it then started blinking. I was miles away from any dealership so just drove the truck until I got home. Then the next day I took it to the dealership because for the first time while driving home, I experienced the dead pedal.

Chryslers so called "engine run away safety feature" is when this happens, you are suppose to take your foot off the pedal and then lightly tap the brake. It is then that the ECM light is suppose to come on but not blinking. According to Chrysler, this is called "engine lag" and is no where related to the dead pedal effect. However, when you step on the pedal to move the truck forward or while perhaps passing, this is when you will know your truck has gone into dead pedal. The engine does the same thing (lag) but if possible, don't hit the brake, wait a few seconds and the engine will then regain power. As far as the ECM light coming on, with my truck and the service mgr and I driving, it is a hit and miss situation. The light may or may not come on. While in the dead pedal mode, I have never had the ECM light show steady or blinking. When this originally happened to me, the ECM light showed steady. Re-starting the truck a couple of times did cause the ECM light to blink. However the ser. mgr said he got the truck into the lagging mode five times and the ECM light did come on, five different times. The other thing the ser. mgr did while I was riding with him was to lightly touch the brake, engine went into the lag mode but instead of the mgr. taking his foot off the pedal, he pumped it as hard as he could and additionally put it all the way to the floor. This created nothing until the engine lag stopped and he regained power to the truck.

The latest report on my truck is the Gen. Mgr and I had a talk. He informed me that he was taking my truck and putting me into a brand new 2014 2500. So the way I have been "approaching" this situation has finally turned into my favor.

I have no idea how many miles you have on your truck and I am happy to read that so far you have not had to experience the dead pedal effect. However, based on what I have been reading, it appears it could happen as soon as you drive the truck off the show room floor or even having a few thousand miles on it. Good luck with it.

 

[Bill]

YOU don't feel this is a serious safety issue? Great ~ that's your opinion. But when I go to pass a vehicle pulling a 10,000 + lb travel trailer, get just halfway past this car and then the dead pedal kicks in, knowing that I have another vehicle that is directly behind me and both of us have been waiting to pass some idiot that is only driving 40-45 mph and then I am FORCED to hit the brakes and back off, attempting to fall back behind this idiot again. Then the guy who was right on my butt had to lock his brakes up to keep from hitting me ~ well you go right ahead and keep believing there is no safety issue with this dead pedal. And for those on here that think I'll get nowhere with the way I treat the ser department, all I have to say on that matter is this: "If you want to be pushed into a corner and be the little customer that is suppose to believe everything that is being said, bowing down to everybody, keeping quiet, not voicing your concern or expressing your anger after hearing the same junk being said to you day after day after day - then YOU be that person. I try the polite approach first. When that don't work then I will do what ever I have to if that means pounding on everybody's desk and DEMANDING they fix their piece of junk. IF I was to explain to you that all of the 13+ new vehicles I have bought from this dealership and all the problems I have had with them, maybe, just maybe you might understand the absolute frustration I have been through. NO, I don't want any empathy from anybody on here but a little common sense would surely go a long ways.

Quit crying about your poor little headache. My blood pressure is great!!!! I really don't care if you don't believe any manufacture makes a vehicle with this many unresolved problems. All that is, is speculation on your part. I really enjoyed coming on this forum, learned a lot and there are "some" caring individuals but you my friend are surely not one of them.

Go lay down and take care of your headache because I have no doubt I will be kicked off of this forum. Great! I'll go one step further and quit this forum because I'm tired of putting up with guys like you that think you are so great, can solve every problem, can doubt that I've been to the dealer as many times as I said I have.

Yes, TDR is fantastic but with people like you yelling about your poor headaches because you don't like the way they post things, over a period of time you will see others dropping off this forum. I get their magazines and there is far far far more information in them than you could ever put out on this forum.

WELL TO SUM THIS UP - "MY ~ MY" WAY GOT ME OUT OF THIS TRUCK AND INTO A NEW 2500. Furthermore, I told the jerk at the ECS department that I would be out of this truck in less than two weeks. Going to call him tomorrow and let him know how I feel about their lack of support, lack of concern for all the customers that are buying Dodges and therefore giving him what he calls a caring job.

 

[RVTRKN]

Bill, there are some opinions here on TDR that vary from time to time and can get UGLY, but that can be a good thing sometimes. I had to endure a member here that was so ugly, he finally moved on due to peer pressure. HBarlow was very informative at times and on a few ocasions I learned a lot about my CTD from him, but if he viewed your post as agressive, he went over the top. He actually stuck his nose in my business and contacted companies I was doing business with, I almost quit TDR due to that and complained to the moderators, someone like that will eventualy move on.

Please don't leave TDR because a member disagreed with you, it happens from time to time, but what can you learn from a "YES" man.

 

[Deleted member 995608]

No reason to leave Bill. There's a few Ding-a-Lings on here but it's no where near as bad as the Cumminsforum. Those guys are all about how my Durmax or Ford never broke down and my Dodge is a peace of junk.

Almost all of the members here have been long time Dodge owners, me included, and will be true to the brand forever. Everyone of my trucks have had a few kinks but they all got worked out and I regret selling each and everyone of them. Hell, I got all emotional a few weeks back when my 04.5 drove away with a new owner.

Grateful the dealer finally took care of your needs. Too bad it took so long though.

 

[Dutch & Di]

sag2
I am replying only because you mentioned part of a quote by me about "want everyone to love their truck" so I have to take it that your statement was with me in mind.
I guess I should be happy that you replied at all as you have not returned phone calls or replied to PM's that I have sent you trying to enlist your help before & after May Madness.
Maybe you are "Mr. Got Rocks" and if you don't like that your $50,000.00 truck is making your life miserable---because of specific and ongoing issues--you probably just get a new one but I, as well as probably most other owners, are not in that boat.
If you were referring to me, my life isn't being consumed by this 10 month ordeal but it is definitely being disrupted by all of these problems. We are supposed to be tooling down the road, doing rallies, sightseeing, golfing, spending time with friends and enjoying life, not spending all of my time in Dodge Dealerships and/or on the phone with the Escalated department. I am getting somewhere but it is stressful and time consuming. Di

,

I also want everyone to love their truck, no matter what brand. I see lots of Chrysler products every day as well as other brands and there really are not any bad products out there anymore. So if your life is being consumed by a bunch of steel and plastic, it is time to move on and make your life better. You will live longer.

 

[seafish]

Bill, I am VERY GLAD that you are making headway with Chrysler in getting this SERIOUS issue sorted out and have ended up with a new truck that I hope you LOVE.

That being said, there is NO reason to leave this awesome forum when a generally helpful (and generous with his time) mechanic like Sag2 perhaps misunderstands or misstates your problem. In my few (lol) years with TDR, I have NEVER before seen him make inappropriate or even unhelpful comments. ( UNLIKE HBarlow, who could be helpful OR aggressive or BOTH in the same sentence depending on his mood swings!!! ). I am sure that he only misunderstood the seriousness of your trucks problem, as well as the time and energy that you had ALREADY put in with trying to Chrysler to fix it.

I believe that it is importatnt to remember that ANYONE can misunderstand a comment on a forum, or even have a bad day and make a comment that is intended to help but actually doesn't. Certainly I have been guilty of BOTH those things, even though I actively try to ONLY post helpful comments... Anyway, you all carry on, just my .02 !!

 

[MattandLana]

A couple of observations from afar.

First is that 'headache' cracks sometimes don't go over too well.

Second, Bill you like looong posts. A friendly tip mate - please don't flame me - is that length can be counter-poductive. Pragmatically, if your reader gets bored and stops reading, then by definition you won't reach your audience.

Third, sag2 you made some good posts up above. I often see you on here doing just that, trying to help folk when they're frustrated and occasionally take a shot at the messenger. I salute you.

Fourth, Bill asked:

... maybe somebody can explain this to me ... a code they found - P2299. Two days later ... truck has not been driven... they found two more codes - C0077-00 and C151D-00. When they found the first code, wouldn't the other two also be present at that time?

Bill I gather error codes often come and go by themselves, as connectors have occasional poor connections and then get enough current through again. So it may have happened just as they told you. I assume you've looked up the codes, by now?

Fifth and finally, it doesn't help discussion when people are across purposes. Above I named two separate things which are getting mashed together in this thread:

1. Slow off-the-line performance, aka 'I need to push much harder on the pedal than in my old truck/than I want to, to get moving as fast as I want to'. ...

2. Dead pedal. You accelerate slightly, then back off for some reason, then come back on the gas, and there is zero response for a reported 1-2 seconds - ... as traffic bears down on you.

But I need to add to that a possible 3rd and 4th:

3. Bill says he's been told that these trucks are programmed to shut off the engine at any speed if someone touches the brake while still on the throttle. sag2 says this is simply not so. Can someone else test this for us? (I don't have my truck yet.)

Bill I'm sorry, but I can't distil from your many words exactly what your symptoms are. Is it 1, 2 or 3 above, or (4) some other gremlin? If it's 4, can you pls briefly re-summarise the symptoms, in a very few lines?

Hope you get things sorted Bill. Life's too short to spend it at war with anyone, be it a car company or anyone else.