Bill, how many miles between the dead pedal? I ask because the dead pedal I experience is when I start a regen cycle. Until the 09 update to the ECM, I never had that, so I suspect when they changed the program and the regen cycle starts when the pressure drop across the DPF is at the trigger point, Dodge also added in the update to start a regen after xxx amount of miles, regardless of the pressure.
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Chrysler response to Dead Pedal
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Joseph Donnelly
TDR MEMBER
I saw several references to "two footed driver." What happens if you drive using only your right foot?
leaky gasket
TDR MEMBER
thats what i was thinking too.
Just read an article in yesterdays paper titled "Chrysler probe sought by group", "Center For Auto Safety says cars stall". It says the group has asked the U.S. government to investigate power system failures in Chrysler vehicles. The group filed a petition asking the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for the probe. The center contends that an electrical power control module used by Chrysler in millions of vehicles since 2007 can go haywire causing them to stall in traffic and cut off devices powered by electricity. The allegations covers Ram trucks as well as several other models. These modules, according to Chrysler are being phased out but are still in the 2014 jeep Wrangler and Dodge minivans. I would suspect they are still in our trucks as well.
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
Even more reason to file on www.safercar.com
Okay this is our chance to hopefully put more pressure on Chrysler. Everybody on here that has this problem needs to file a complaint with the Center for Auto Safety. More importantly, our trucks need to be taken back to the dealers as many times as necessary, open a formal claim with Chrysler and proceed from there.
Warning: This post may be longer than some like but I have to go into some detail in order for it to make any sense:
The dead pedal can happen with new Dodges as soon as you drive them off the lot or a new owner may not experience it until he's put a few thousand miles on it. With that said, the biggest problem as I see it is "electrical." Under "Electronic Brake Control System's you have:
1. ABS
2. Traction Control (TCS)
3. Brake Assist (BAS)
4. Electronic Roll Mitigation (ERM)
5. Hill start assisst (HSA)
6. Hill Decent Control (HDC)
7. Electronic Stability Control (ECS)
8. Trailer Sway Control (TSC).
All these systems work together to enhance vehicle stability and control in various driving conditions, and they are referred to as ESC. In the book Chrysler sent me, I counted 15 different electrical systems however, those were listed in order. There has to be a dozen+ that I didn't count. The Chrysler book I am talking about covers the 1500's, 2500's and 3500. It is well over 700 pages long. However there is absolutely no mention of dead pedal or engine lagging.
I have had my truck re-flashed many times with the last one being a HUB re-flash. A lot of my instruments on the main display panel gives me wrong readings. The NAV system I don't trust.
So in the midst of all the electrical junk they have on these trucks, something has to be wrong. I may be wrong for saying that.
I took my truck out yesterday and day before. Using all back roads, I have now learned that yes, Chrysler has indeed built in a safety feature for run away engines. Push your accelerator down just as you would normally be driving. At the exact same time, hit the brake and do not let up on it. Do not let up on the accelerator. The engine will automatically stall. Later on, being a two footed driver, I "rested" my left foot on the brake and kept the accelerator pressed down and maintained my speed. This "light brake pressure" did not stall the engine. You have to put a certain amount of pressure on the brake and again, keep the accelerator depressed.
My way of thinking was this is Dead Pedal. However it is not. You have three things going on with these trucks.
1. By doing what I did above, this is a safety feature.
2. Dead Pedal happens (at least to me) when I am taking off from a dead stop.
3. Engine lag.
With my truck, I can be driving in City traffic, freeways, Country roads, etc. For no logical reason, my engine will lose power or lag. Yesterday, as I said, I could make the truck go into the safety feature and did experience dead pedal. However, this engine lag, as I said, can happen anytime and I kept my left foot completely away from the brake pedal yesterday and it did go into lag mode.
I believe I said it before on here. While towing my travel trailer, a vehicle behind me, guy in front of me driving 40 mph, I waited until there was no oncoming traffic and pulled out to pass. I was half way around the vehicle I was attempting to pass when all of a sudden the engine went into the lag mode or as some same, limp mode. I had to hit the brakes, take my foot off the accelerator and attempt to fall in behind the guy I was trying to pass. However, the guy behind me almost ate my trailer bumper because of the sudden loss of power to my truck.
I am totally guessing here but maybe with the quick increase in engine power, to pass, perhaps an electrical connection or computer thought I had a run away engine. However, in retrospect, that guessing on my part is probably wrong because I have had my truck up to 95mph and the engine did not go into the limp mode.
My new pedal from Chrysler has not arrived yet so tomorrow I am taking the truck to the ser. dept. and have a mech. do an electrical test on the A.P.P. sensor. While there I am going to ask the mech about what you mentioned pertaining to the REGEN.
I don't know if this info helps or hinders you and others on here. I am just saying how my truck reacts pertaining to the three differerent things I mentioned. I'll keep you informed.
After I posted this, I again took my truck out for more test drives about the D/P and limp mode. I'm keeping track of the D/P & limp mode in a large note book - speed, brake, no brake, etc. The ETC light may come on immediately after the engine goes into limp mode. This could be a steady or blinking light. Today while driving, instead of limp mode and then the ETC light, the ETC light came on first, started blinking and I then lost all power to the truck. This happened immediately after I had just came around a 25 mph curve. Manual states ifI the ETC is blinking you may experience elevated/rough idle or engine stall. I can handle the engine stall but total loss of power is something I do not want to experience again. Let the truck sit for a few minutes and the engine started. I will address this with the service mgr. tomorrow.
The dead pedal can happen with new Dodges as soon as you drive them off the lot or a new owner may not experience it until he's put a few thousand miles on it. With that said, the biggest problem as I see it is "electrical." Under "Electronic Brake Control System's you have:
1. ABS
2. Traction Control (TCS)
3. Brake Assist (BAS)
4. Electronic Roll Mitigation (ERM)
5. Hill start assisst (HSA)
6. Hill Decent Control (HDC)
7. Electronic Stability Control (ECS)
8. Trailer Sway Control (TSC).
All these systems work together to enhance vehicle stability and control in various driving conditions, and they are referred to as ESC. In the book Chrysler sent me, I counted 15 different electrical systems however, those were listed in order. There has to be a dozen+ that I didn't count. The Chrysler book I am talking about covers the 1500's, 2500's and 3500. It is well over 700 pages long. However there is absolutely no mention of dead pedal or engine lagging.
I have had my truck re-flashed many times with the last one being a HUB re-flash. A lot of my instruments on the main display panel gives me wrong readings. The NAV system I don't trust.
So in the midst of all the electrical junk they have on these trucks, something has to be wrong. I may be wrong for saying that.
I took my truck out yesterday and day before. Using all back roads, I have now learned that yes, Chrysler has indeed built in a safety feature for run away engines. Push your accelerator down just as you would normally be driving. At the exact same time, hit the brake and do not let up on it. Do not let up on the accelerator. The engine will automatically stall. Later on, being a two footed driver, I "rested" my left foot on the brake and kept the accelerator pressed down and maintained my speed. This "light brake pressure" did not stall the engine. You have to put a certain amount of pressure on the brake and again, keep the accelerator depressed.
My way of thinking was this is Dead Pedal. However it is not. You have three things going on with these trucks.
1. By doing what I did above, this is a safety feature.
2. Dead Pedal happens (at least to me) when I am taking off from a dead stop.
3. Engine lag.
With my truck, I can be driving in City traffic, freeways, Country roads, etc. For no logical reason, my engine will lose power or lag. Yesterday, as I said, I could make the truck go into the safety feature and did experience dead pedal. However, this engine lag, as I said, can happen anytime and I kept my left foot completely away from the brake pedal yesterday and it did go into lag mode.
I believe I said it before on here. While towing my travel trailer, a vehicle behind me, guy in front of me driving 40 mph, I waited until there was no oncoming traffic and pulled out to pass. I was half way around the vehicle I was attempting to pass when all of a sudden the engine went into the lag mode or as some same, limp mode. I had to hit the brakes, take my foot off the accelerator and attempt to fall in behind the guy I was trying to pass. However, the guy behind me almost ate my trailer bumper because of the sudden loss of power to my truck.
I am totally guessing here but maybe with the quick increase in engine power, to pass, perhaps an electrical connection or computer thought I had a run away engine. However, in retrospect, that guessing on my part is probably wrong because I have had my truck up to 95mph and the engine did not go into the limp mode.
My new pedal from Chrysler has not arrived yet so tomorrow I am taking the truck to the ser. dept. and have a mech. do an electrical test on the A.P.P. sensor. While there I am going to ask the mech about what you mentioned pertaining to the REGEN.
I don't know if this info helps or hinders you and others on here. I am just saying how my truck reacts pertaining to the three differerent things I mentioned. I'll keep you informed.
After I posted this, I again took my truck out for more test drives about the D/P and limp mode. I'm keeping track of the D/P & limp mode in a large note book - speed, brake, no brake, etc. The ETC light may come on immediately after the engine goes into limp mode. This could be a steady or blinking light. Today while driving, instead of limp mode and then the ETC light, the ETC light came on first, started blinking and I then lost all power to the truck. This happened immediately after I had just came around a 25 mph curve. Manual states ifI the ETC is blinking you may experience elevated/rough idle or engine stall. I can handle the engine stall but total loss of power is something I do not want to experience again. Let the truck sit for a few minutes and the engine started. I will address this with the service mgr. tomorrow.
Last edited:
Two things can happen being a right footed driver.
1. Your truck can still go into Dead Pedal.
2. Your truck, while driving in any type traffic, on any type of roads, can go into a limp mode.
Basicaly they are somewhat alike ~ you simply lose power to your engine for a few seconds. Some say 1/2 - 1 second. Mine has lasted roughly 2-5+ seconds.
1. Your truck can still go into Dead Pedal.
2. Your truck, while driving in any type traffic, on any type of roads, can go into a limp mode.
Basicaly they are somewhat alike ~ you simply lose power to your engine for a few seconds. Some say 1/2 - 1 second. Mine has lasted roughly 2-5+ seconds.
I totally agree. However I feel it's just as important to file a claim with Chrysler. It's apparent that they have known about this problem for some time. It took me a little time but I finally did get Chrysler to send me a new pedal. What has me worried a little now is the fact that this may effect my 2014 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. If that happens, I'm buying a new motorcyle. :-laf
Good luck with an answer to the regen issue! More than likely they'll ignore that, unless you can document it happening at the start of a regen. I know my tech has answered that question with "I dought that" and "who put that idea in your head" and "have you concidered something else might be wrong" so unless you can prove that, good luck then.
Your items two and three are my symptoms, The sequence starts with the EB engaging at an idle, with clutch in or trans in neutral with the clutch in or out. (start of regen) Just as my clutch is completely engaged when starting to move, it will stall/or stumble then engage all of a sudden just as you start to look for a place to pull over. It then will have no power thru acceleration until 2000 RPM, then it will take off like a bat out of hell slaming you to the seat. If you a engage the clutch it will just rev up to 3200 RPM for a second or two, or keep increasing in speed for a second or two. I have learned to just stay in it for three seconds or more then engage the clutch which most times then act normal.
Starting regen sequence
1) EB engages at idle then stumble off the line. (stumble off the line is rare, now that it has had several reflashes)
2) On rare occasions, stumble between shifts.
3) Then the throttle will stick or accelerate after 2000 RPM, even when cruising at 65 MPH @ 1800 rpm, then go to pass someone. (this one took out my OEM DMF clutch, at 23K GCVW)
Your items two and three are my symptoms, The sequence starts with the EB engaging at an idle, with clutch in or trans in neutral with the clutch in or out. (start of regen) Just as my clutch is completely engaged when starting to move, it will stall/or stumble then engage all of a sudden just as you start to look for a place to pull over. It then will have no power thru acceleration until 2000 RPM, then it will take off like a bat out of hell slaming you to the seat. If you a engage the clutch it will just rev up to 3200 RPM for a second or two, or keep increasing in speed for a second or two. I have learned to just stay in it for three seconds or more then engage the clutch which most times then act normal.
Starting regen sequence
1) EB engages at idle then stumble off the line. (stumble off the line is rare, now that it has had several reflashes)
2) On rare occasions, stumble between shifts.
3) Then the throttle will stick or accelerate after 2000 RPM, even when cruising at 65 MPH @ 1800 rpm, then go to pass someone. (this one took out my OEM DMF clutch, at 23K GCVW)
Part of you post... ... "Good luck with an answer to the regen issue! More than likely they'll ignore that, unless you can document it happening at the start of a regen. I know my tech has answered that question with "I dought that" and "who put that idea in your head" and "have you concidered something else might be wrong" so unless you can prove that, good luck then...
I have no doubt a tech would say something like that to you. However, not knowing the full circumstances such as further trying to assist you or having you speak with the service mgr, or simply not making any further attempts to assist you, I would get the tech's name and immediately ask to speak with the General Manager of the dealership. It makes no difference if you had bought some old Dodge car, paint peeling, etc or having bought a new or used Dodge truck, "customer satisfaction" is the number one objective of any business. Under no circumstances would I ever let a tech/mechanic/service mgr. speak to me that way. If your vehicle was under warranty then they should have started trouble shooting it. If there was no warranty left, I would have asked this tech what his recommendation/s would be.
I have no doubt a tech would say something like that to you. However, not knowing the full circumstances such as further trying to assist you or having you speak with the service mgr, or simply not making any further attempts to assist you, I would get the tech's name and immediately ask to speak with the General Manager of the dealership. It makes no difference if you had bought some old Dodge car, paint peeling, etc or having bought a new or used Dodge truck, "customer satisfaction" is the number one objective of any business. Under no circumstances would I ever let a tech/mechanic/service mgr. speak to me that way. If your vehicle was under warranty then they should have started trouble shooting it. If there was no warranty left, I would have asked this tech what his recommendation/s would be.
AfterBurner
TDR MEMBER
I've had the dead pedal issue on many occasions in my 11k miles of ownership. For the most part I can anticipate it, but it just about got me creamed in an intersection last weekend while pulling a 7000# bumper pull. I was approaching the intersection in the left turn lane at about 10-15 mph, waiting for an oncoming car to go through. Instead of going straight through, the car (with no turn signal on) slowed down and made a right turn which threw off my timing so I had to lift off the throttle for 2-3 seconds. I then engaged the accelerator and nothing...nothing...nothing at this point my passenger (who owns an 02 CTD) yells "GO!", to which I responded "it's floored!". Finally it decided to act like an engine and pull so hard that I had to let up a bit to keep from dumping my load.
My passenger asked what the heck was going on with my truck and I said "that's the dead pedal I've been telling you about".
I can usually avoid or at least anticipate the dead pedal, but sometimes it really tries to bite you in the butt! When it's really bad is when it happens in a situation to which you are committed to acceleration to get through, i.e. merging into traffic, passing, intersections.
I would take it to the dealership and complain, but those guys are so dumb that they can't even change the oil right.
My passenger asked what the heck was going on with my truck and I said "that's the dead pedal I've been telling you about".
I can usually avoid or at least anticipate the dead pedal, but sometimes it really tries to bite you in the butt! When it's really bad is when it happens in a situation to which you are committed to acceleration to get through, i.e. merging into traffic, passing, intersections.
I would take it to the dealership and complain, but those guys are so dumb that they can't even change the oil right.
Replace ECM, and at a cost of lots of dollars and there is no guaranty thats where the issue is. I'm holding out for a possible donor truck with a original ECM that was unmolested as they get older. The original selling dealer is no longer in business, and what customer satisfaction? It was under warranty at the time of the first reflash that caused it, but its been out of warranty for a long time, and unless I'm buying a new truck, they could care less.
If I knew it was a regen issue when it happened, I would have been a pit bull with my jaws locked around the service managers throat. But it wasn't until I installed my EGT probe in 2012 could I prove it was in regen, and even then they would have wanted documentaion to even consider looking into it, and after warranty, good luck.
Im sorry Bill, its just a dead issue now, and I've learned to live with it.
If I knew it was a regen issue when it happened, I would have been a pit bull with my jaws locked around the service managers throat. But it wasn't until I installed my EGT probe in 2012 could I prove it was in regen, and even then they would have wanted documentaion to even consider looking into it, and after warranty, good luck.
Im sorry Bill, its just a dead issue now, and I've learned to live with it.
Just curious. How can you anticipate your truck going into the D/P mode? Then again, that's a dumb question ~ I anticipate my truck to do this every second I'm behind the wheel. Your truck but just a strong suggestion. Don't let this just happen and do nothing about it. Report it to the National Traffic Safety Board (think that is what's being recommended on here). Then take it to your dealer, "with your passenger" and demand that he open a claim through Chrysler. Even if your truck is out of warranty, Chrysler needs to know what happened.
If the mechanics are that dumb, and it's not to far to another dealership, drive it there and let them know. My biggest fear is to come on this forum and read about a serious wreck or a wreck where the driver of the truck or others involved in an accident were killed. It's a bomb waiting to explode and Chrysler knows it.
If the mechanics are that dumb, and it's not to far to another dealership, drive it there and let them know. My biggest fear is to come on this forum and read about a serious wreck or a wreck where the driver of the truck or others involved in an accident were killed. It's a bomb waiting to explode and Chrysler knows it.
hi guys and gals
john in wa state
2014 drw
850 torque aisin trany with 3.73 gears
aug. 22 coming home from the coast, pulling 13,000# 5th wheel up a 10 or12% grade, 4 TIMES IT WENT INTO DEAD PEDAL IN THE 1 MILE
LONG UP HILL CLIMB HOLY CRAP TALK ABOUT WETTING YOURSELF not sure I could hold it, if engine died or looking for a way to put
it into the wall to stop it if we started backwards off that hill, no guard rails, school buses and logging trucks use this road daily.
love the truck 2200 miles on it but scared to pull with it.
and when it did catch and start pulling in 4 to 5 sec it realy put a strain on the drive train to play catch up,
may have twisted the rear drive line?????
john in wa state
2014 drw
850 torque aisin trany with 3.73 gears
aug. 22 coming home from the coast, pulling 13,000# 5th wheel up a 10 or12% grade, 4 TIMES IT WENT INTO DEAD PEDAL IN THE 1 MILE
LONG UP HILL CLIMB HOLY CRAP TALK ABOUT WETTING YOURSELF not sure I could hold it, if engine died or looking for a way to put
it into the wall to stop it if we started backwards off that hill, no guard rails, school buses and logging trucks use this road daily.
love the truck 2200 miles on it but scared to pull with it.
and when it did catch and start pulling in 4 to 5 sec it realy put a strain on the drive train to play catch up,
may have twisted the rear drive line?????
D
Deleted member 995608
Guest
Have you filed the ever easy complaint with NHTSA yet? If not, I suggest you do as we need as many complaints as we can get in order for Chrysler to fix the problem.
I'll make it easy for ya: http://www.nhtsa.gov
I have to totally agree. It is now a dead issue. I've just given up!! I just found out that Chrysler isn't sending my pedal as promised because the damn service manager apparently has not passed on any information about my truck that pertains to the limp mode and the ETC light and who knows what else he may not have told Chrysler. My rep informed me he has left numerous messages for my ser. mgr. to call him but so far he has failed to do so. The A.P.P. sensor according to the service manager had a test done on it and it passed. But, he still told Chrysler he wants to put one in my truck under "customer satisfaction" because of the # of vehicles I've bought in two years. Why put in a new sensor if the one that is already in, is working fine. I just e-mailed my ser. mgr and told him to cancel ordering the sensor.
The guy who posted the article about the N. Traffic safety administration launching a probe against Chrysler ~ my service manager told me that I can't believe everything that is posted on the TDR forum. Furthermore, he wants to know which Module it is. I told him it's not my responsibility to find out that info for him, he needs to call Chrysler himself and find out what is going on.
So Chrysler is blaming the service manager, ser. mgr is blaming Chrysler and furthermore, the ser. mgr is either not listening to me or does not believe me when I pass on any information I feel is relevant to the problems. It's just turned into one big circle J***. I have always enjoyed a good fight ~ won many but lost more. I now admit defeat BUT "Word Of Mouth" goes a long ways. As the 'ol saying goes ~ "Make one customer mad, he will tell ten others and those ten will tell ten others."
Probably a lot of info I posted on here may have been totally off based, having nothing to do with the D/P ~ limp mode problems. At least I attempted to try anything in hopes something would work.
So with all that being said, I'm going to do my best to bury this issue, just wait for an accident to happen and I hope it happens to me because I have a lot of documentation I would love to turn over to the Dept. of Justice or the N. Traffic Safety Board.
It's been an enjoyable and long debate but for myself, I consider my posting as being finished in regards to these issues.
Good luck in the future.
Bill
"
The guy who posted the article about the N. Traffic safety administration launching a probe against Chrysler ~ my service manager told me that I can't believe everything that is posted on the TDR forum. Furthermore, he wants to know which Module it is. I told him it's not my responsibility to find out that info for him, he needs to call Chrysler himself and find out what is going on.
So Chrysler is blaming the service manager, ser. mgr is blaming Chrysler and furthermore, the ser. mgr is either not listening to me or does not believe me when I pass on any information I feel is relevant to the problems. It's just turned into one big circle J***. I have always enjoyed a good fight ~ won many but lost more. I now admit defeat BUT "Word Of Mouth" goes a long ways. As the 'ol saying goes ~ "Make one customer mad, he will tell ten others and those ten will tell ten others."
Probably a lot of info I posted on here may have been totally off based, having nothing to do with the D/P ~ limp mode problems. At least I attempted to try anything in hopes something would work.
So with all that being said, I'm going to do my best to bury this issue, just wait for an accident to happen and I hope it happens to me because I have a lot of documentation I would love to turn over to the Dept. of Justice or the N. Traffic Safety Board.
It's been an enjoyable and long debate but for myself, I consider my posting as being finished in regards to these issues.
Good luck in the future.
Bill
"
Maybe things will start happening: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&gws_rd=ssl#q=chryslers+power+module+probe
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
Keep filing on www.safercar.gov ! Chris
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