Chrysler response to Dead Pedal

[Bill]

Stuff happens.

 

[Bill]

hi guys and gals
john in wa state
2014 drw
850 torque aisin trany with 3.73 gears

aug. 22 coming home from the coast, pulling 13,000# 5th wheel up a 10 or12% grade, 4 TIMES IT WENT INTO DEAD PEDAL IN THE 1 MILE
LONG UP HILL CLIMB HOLY CRAP TALK ABOUT WETTING YOURSELF not sure I could hold it, if engine died or looking for a way to put
it into the wall to stop it if we started backwards off that hill, no guard rails, school buses and logging trucks use this road daily.
love the truck 2200 miles on it but scared to pull with it.
and when it did catch and start pulling in 4 to 5 sec it realy put a strain on the drive train to play catch up,
may have twisted the rear drive line?????

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&gws_rd=ssl#q=chryslers+power+module+probe

I found that today. What I think?? may have happened to your truck was not a D/P problem but a limp mode one. That is where you can be driving at any speed, any roads, etc and for no reason your engine will go into that mode. It's happened to me and usually last 2 - 5 seconds. A D/P mode usually happens when you are at a stop sign or as a traffic light turns green, you start to apply pressure to the accelerator, travel a very short distance and it will cause the engine to do the same thing. I know this question is totally stupid but while climbing that 10-12 % grade, at any time did you have to apply the brakes and still have the accelerator pedal depressed?? That will cause the engine to do the same thing as you went through. It took me a long time to finally have Chrysler admit that that is their safety measure in case your engine runs away on you. Chrysler and the dealership labeled me as being a two footed driver, which I am but they said I was resting my foot on the brake which I wasn't. So with that link I gave you, if you desire, read the different stories and they basically say the same thing. The only difference is it is being blamed on an electrical control Module that goes back to 2007. Apparently enough guys on this forum and other individuals have filed enough complaints through the National Traffic safety board that they are doing a probe on Chrysler. I still have both problems. I did tell my wife that at any time we are pulling our trailer up a steep grade and the engine goes into the limp mode, when I feel that the truck has slowed down as far as it will, to just open the door and jump and I'll do the same. That is if I can't hold the truck by using the brake. Not sure what I would do if I was going "down" that steep of a grade and it happened. I'd rather have the wife and I come out of something like that with perhaps a few broken bones rather than go over a cliff, rolling truck and trailer. I have just about the exact mileage on my truck as you do. However, as you know, this problem can happen with a brand new truck or one with thousands of miles on it. With our trucks, jeeps and mini vans involed in this probe, it's just my .02 but I think that Chrysler knew about this all the time but wasn't going to say or do anything until a terrible accident happened. It's going to cost Chrysler a lot of money to replace this module but far less than if an accident did happened and they were sued. Especially if a death occured.

I'm like you. I'm afraid to pull my trailer until this mess is resolved. Glad you made it through okay. Keep us informed if you experience any thing like that again ~ would appreciate it.

 

[RustyJC]

The only difference is it is being blamed on an electrical control Module that goes back to 2007.

Really? I've watched this whole thread with somewhat detached interest since my 2011 Ram has never exhibited any of the symptoms being discussed, so I seriously doubt that the ECM is the source of the problem unless Rams built since 2007 have exhibited the symptoms you describe. Programming?? Perhaps so, but not the basic ECM itself if indeed its design is unchanged back to 2007.

Rusty

 

[rscurtis]

Even if the engine goes into limp mode, don't you still have brakes? Doesn't the "park" position in the transmission still work once the truck is stopped?

 

[TCDiesel]

Sorry Your Truck does NOT have the TIPM, it has PDC. It's just another group or so call committee that doesn't know the different between ICBM and PCI.

In 2006 Chrysler change form PDC (Power distribution Center) to TIPM (Totally Integrated power module) this caused many electrical problems , All 2013-14 Rams have PDC so the link do not apply.

Bill.. My guess its a connection or harness problem. What I do to every personal or company vehicle I purchase is disconnect every harness and Die-electric, this includes the PCM/ECM connections. of course I disconnect the power supply 1st. it takes about 2/4Hrs to do this.

I would check every ground and every connection in the truck. I found a bad connection in the Cig lighter that cause the vehicle to stall. another time a bad ground to the transmission, I could go on and on, Recently The wife 2013 Charger would NOT start, So I Drop it off at the dealership, and left it there, You can call them Coon rapids Chrysler and talk to Nick (Great service department) 763-421-8000. They had it for 3 weeks it fill 4 pages and 41 Hrs of billable man Hrs, that car look like it was at a chop shop, they replace the ECM just about everything, every harness was replace form the Head lights to Tail lights,, it took up 2 service bays for all the stuff they removed, I'm talking even the head and tail lamp harnesses.

O the techs that work on it thank Me BC all the connection came apart easily, Yep it was the main body harness that was the culprit, I traded that 13 for the 14 The wife has Now,and 1 off the techs that work on it bought it, BC he new how easy it was going to be work on in the future. he still driving it problem free.

 

[Dieselnerd]

Really? I've watched this whole thread with somewhat detached interest since my 2011 Ram has never exhibited any of the symptoms being discussed, so I seriously doubt that the ECM is the source of the problem unless Rams built since 2007 have exhibited the symptoms you describe. Programming?? Perhaps so, but not the basic ECM itself if indeed its design is unchanged back to 2007.

Rusty

Yeah, me too, never had a problem. The Government Chrysler probe in the Google search is for the TIPM, not the ECM. The TIPM that is being investigated isn't even in the new trucks...

The old TIPM was easily damaged by incorrect trailer hookups etc. Remember all the TIPM saver circuits that people were designing?

(Todd, you beat me to it and posted while I was composing my post!)

 

[Powder Extreme]

I did tell my wife that at any time we are pulling our trailer up a steep grade and the engine goes into the limp mode, when I feel that the truck has slowed down as far as it will, to just open the door and jump and I'll do the same. That is if I can't hold the truck by using the brake. Not sure what I would do if I was going "down" that steep of a grade and it happened. I'd rather have the wife and I come out of something like that with perhaps a few broken bones rather than go over a cliff, rolling truck and trailer.

I am completely confused how having the engine cut out could possibly cause the truck AND trailer brakes to fail? Even the emergency brake? Come on! Seriously? Can you explain what would even make you think there is a chance your truck brakes, trailer brakes, emergency brake, and as somebody mentioned, the ability to put it in park as it comes to a stop, will all completely fail?

 

[Powder Extreme]

Incidentally, while towing my boat last week, I tried to force this limp mode by pressing on the brake while under power. Never happened. I even went so far as flooring the truck and applying the brakes hard enough to prevent it from accelerating. Nothing. I was watching the boost gauge the entire time, never dropped below 25lbs of pressure so obviously didn't pull back engine power. I don't doubt Sag2 when he says there is a safety feature built in, but my test obviously proves that just "bumping" the brake pedal will not cause the engine to stall or return to idle. I'm guessing it will take a fair amount of time of brake and throttle together before that happens. I tried it 3 separate times, with the last time holding it for several seconds, so that proves it doesn't happen instantly or accidentally.

 

[RustyJC]

The Government Chrysler probe in the Google search is for the TIPM, not the ECM.

OK. I didn't bother with reading the link. I was just rebutting the implication that this problem somehow affected all vehicles back to 2007.

Rusty

 

[Tuesdak]

Hey Bill,
Thanks for posting this. If you have stumbled on a "Design Defect" I doubt you will make much progress in fixing it. Maybe bad publicity will change future designs. To be clear NHTSA is over their heads in dead bodies from the GM ignition switch problem also shutting off the airbags. Lawyers couldn't draw NHTSA a clear enough picture. The horn blaring if automatic RAM's are not in park fix is quite frankly a bad joke.

Toyota... The sudden acceleration thing was cleared by NASA. NASA has had to eat their own results since as NASA has has problems with Tin Whiskers on the Space Shuttle. I invite you to read the original research and decide if Toyota's or whomsoever's propaganda campaign to discredit it has been successful. (Like the Wiki link wants you to believe.) After all removing lead is a big government EPA goal. Government regulations sometimes force a manufacturer into a bad corner.

Myself I went a few rounds with the Old GM... The grass isn't greener over there.

I suggest you get yourself a good lemon law lawyer and wash your hands of this vehicle. The lawyer will assist you doing so without a big $$$ loss to you. You already have breach of warranty by refusal to replace parts an independent shop suggested helping your court case. Quite frankly it's cheaper to refund you and lots of others the entire vehicle price, payments, lawyer's fees, etc. than it is to fix the design problem and *Gasp* do a recall. After all this is the U.S.A. where profit and keeping costs down is more important than doing the right thing. If it even costs $0.10 or more this is even more important.

Everyone else should think about what happen if I loose power during this maneuver - Do I have enough room for the other vehicle to stop if I stall? Also what would you do if your engine does run away? (Say you blow the compressor turbo oil seal and the diesel is going to run out of oil or blow up before stopping?) More common for the car wash to drop the floor mat over the throttle and brake pedals. Regardless think of a plan, have an escape route to buy time to 'solve the problem'...

I suggest Neutral to keep the power steering going over killing the ignition. If you are lucky the few seconds before the engine lets go from a true runaway can get you on a safe course. If you are not the engine coming apart takes out the master cylinder/brake lines.

After all it's clear the manufactures are NOT going to fix or care about their design defects. They can't: it's too expensive. Recalls are bad press even though they should be viewed as good news 'finally they are fixing the darn thing'. The Government has a DMV like efficiency of not doing anything.

Again thanks for posting. This helps all of us and puts pressure on both our government and manufactures to do the right thing.

That's right Chrysler, GM, Ford, NHTSA, Toyota, etc. you can and should Do Better! In the age of electronic everything including ABS and stability control that's Gov't mandated with many places for bad code to muck things up you truly need to do better.

 

[rono]

Been looking at a new '14 2500 at several different dealers and on line. Those I have test driven have driven have not exhibited any dead pedal problem. However, I think I'll hold off buying anything yet. My '07 has never had this problem, only emission and DPF codes and problems.
Ron

 

[JPalachuk]

john in wa state

well I think I figured out my dead pedal problem.
up a 10% grade 13000# trailer very sharp switch backs, now get this
4 switch backs 4 no fuel???? took to dealer and no codes.
driver error yes driver error, traction control on all the time as soon as you turn key on.
was told that under heavy load an very tight corners, computer was getting a big difference in rear wheel speed,
so pull the fuel back to stop what it thought was wheel spin, got to love the idea.
well now hit the button to shut off traction management and try it again.
john

 

[RVTRKN]

I think the 4th Gen dead pedal issues are not quite what my 07 C&C experiences with regards to the dead pedal, mine only happens on rare occasions at a stop and only when regen starts. This is why I was asking about mileage between your dead pedal, if it happens several times on a grade, then mine doesn't have your symptoms. I hope you guys can figure out what's causing it, I know if I paid 60K and had that issue, I would look into the lemon law. The only way Fiat is going to take it serious, is to have to buy back a crap load of trucks.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Ram4Sam]

john in wa state

well I think I figured out my dead pedal problem.
up a 10% grade 13000# trailer very sharp switch backs, now get this
4 switch backs 4 no fuel???? took to dealer and no codes.
driver error yes driver error, traction control on all the time as soon as you turn key on.
was told that under heavy load an very tight corners, computer was getting a big difference in rear wheel speed,
so pull the fuel back to stop what it thought was wheel spin, got to love the idea.
well now hit the button to shut off traction management and try it again.
john

Interesting theory.........let us know what happens.

Sam

 

[JLandry]

up a 10% grade 13000# trailer very sharp switch backs, now get this
4 switch backs 4 no fuel???? took to dealer and no codes.
driver error yes driver error

Please tell us a bit more about these switchbacks. How sharp (e.g.: nearly full steering wheel lock) and how fast were you going around them?

If there were no trouble codes, then how was the dealer (or you) able to say for certain the engine refueled due to wheel speed differences? Is this just speculation?

traction control on all the time as soon as you turn key on.

True.

was told that under heavy load an very tight corners, computer was getting a big difference in rear wheel speed,
so pull the fuel back to stop what it thought was wheel spin, got to love the idea.

Once in my old 2001 while descending a steep, winding, mountain pass road, I coasted through one particular very sharp hairpin turn at a low speed... probably at 25 or 30 mph. The MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) on the instrument panel came on (I didn't know why) but the truck was otherwise running fine. When it was safe, I pulled over, shut off the engine, and restarted. The MIL went out.

Later on I hooked up my DRBIII scan tool and pulled up a stored trouble code in the ABS for a "Wheel Speed Mismatch" which is triggered when the vehicle speed greater than 10 mph but less than 40 mph and there's no evidence of drivetrain acceleration or deceleration.

In the ~170,000 miles I pt on that truck, this happened only once.

John L.

 

[Bill]

Well I'm back. Latest update. The APP sensor will not resolve this problem. Ser. mgr. put new one in my truck. Didn't help. Still having the dead pedal, engine limp mode and Chrysler's safety way of stopping the truck if the engine runs away on you - not working.

Try to make this short. Got an e-mail a week ago from the gen. mgr to the ser. mgr with a cc to me, telling him to not reply to anymore of my e-mails. THEN Gen. mgr. informs me that I am not to bring in my 2014 Dodge, 2014 Wrangler Jeep Unlimited Rubicon or my 2014 Avalon Limited. That they will not do any further work on them - no service work, no warranty work and no lube/oil changes. Basically I've been kicked off their entire property. Now have to drive 75 miles one way, over a mountain pass to have work done by a dealership that is owned by my local one. Hour and a half one way in the summer, three hours during the winter. Yes, this gen. mgr as with all dealership gen. mgr's do have the legal right to refuse service on your vehicles. I'm goint through the Department of Justice for the truck problems. Using the Lemon law on the new Avalon because we left the car with them, the day we bought it so they could fix a small thing on the dash. Told them to not wash it. They did! Entire car has swirl marks and scratches all over it and they will not come out even when I buff them. Will also go through the D.O.J. on my Rubicon. Transmission, at times will not go into reverse and there is a grinding sound coming from it along with harsh shifting.

Have multiple electronic problems which are to long to type on here. Chrysler told me, after a new APP sensor was installed that they had done all they could do for me. Offered me a one month truck payment or an extended warranty. I already have the ext. warranty and I will not be "bought off" with their offer of a one month payment.

Dealership refuses to give me copies of all my repair orders. So using the "Release of Information Act" to get them that way.

Chrysler refuses to believe that the National Traffic Safety Board is doing a probe on them over the dead pedal and engine limp mode. Heck, they have to know about it because it's been on the news and is all over the internet. Their just playing dumb. Well I know their dumb so should have said dumber. Chrysler wanted a second mileage test performed on the truck. However, the ser. mgr refused to let a mechanic perform it. So I did it. They still owe me $38.58 for the diesel. Had to drive it 50 miles one way and then turn around, 50 back and then re-fill the truck.

Apologize for not being allowed to finish this post. Got as far as I did above and then an error msg stated I was not logged in and my post just went into cyber space or something. However, I did manage to track down what I typed above. So in closing, Chrysler is not going to help anybody with the dead pedal or limp engine modes plus any electrical problems.

 

[zmos]

I am still fighting with the dealer over the dead pedal issue. Well that and the transmission with its clunking and then rotten mileage. This afternoon I called Chrysler to open a formal claim, which they did. Their reply was; "that's strange, we haven't heard from anybody else who is having this problem." I gave them the link to this site and told the guy to go on it and read about all the others who are having the same problem.

I told this guy that my dead pedal has become so bad that I am not driving my truck. The truck goes to the dealer (again) on the 7th of this month. Chrysler said to call them when they finished working on it. Informed this guy that I have been to the dealer so many times that I do qualify, under the Lemon Law, to force them to give me a different truck and if that truck was doing the same thing then I would ask for another one. His reply was; "Well I don't think you have to go that far. Let us try to help you with this problem." I told him "well you must have a new department set up that can ensure customer satisfaction because I've never received any help in the past from you after owning 13 new vehicles in the last two+ years."

This issue is not going away. Chrysler, if they had any common sense, would put out a recall simply based on this forum. I additionally filed a complaint with the National Traffic Safety Board. It was posted on their site. Sad to say but I think a death will have to happen with this problem before anybody decides to do something.

To just sum this up. Here I have a brand new 2500 Dodge that is just sitting in my shop, which I am NOT going to drive until I can be assured the problem can be completely resolved. I also have a wife that is upset because I will not pull our new travel trailer so we can go camping. I'm not about to put our lives and the lives of others in danger. I am seriously looking at chevy's and Fords. However, having to pay, for the best Ford diesel is $67,000. The next one down from the best is $61,000+. Chevy is in the mid to high range of $58,000+. I could probably find a really nice used 2013 Dodge and not even come close to paying those prices.

There's no way Chrysler will recall without having more information to narrow down the problems. If they did, that would halt all sales on every pick-up on car lots until the issue is solved. Not to mention they wouldn't know what parts to have on-hand to repair the issues. $millions lost in sales. More than likely someone will have to die first...

I considered all three makers before purchasing the RAM. Chevy was knocked out pretty fast because i don't personally like the interior. Ford was super close to the RAM. One thing that turned me off is that any major engine work and you have to pull the nose clip off or a full body off frame. That Ford 6.7 V8 is crammed in their pretty well. Ford had a off frame in the shop as I was getting a tour. Besides even though the Ford engine is a clever design, it doesn't have the history of the cummins. RAM creams the competition in features...So RAM was selected.

 

[DonFitzwater]

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...Pedal-issue-on-the-2014?p=2407515#post2407515

Take a read Bill. I am glad somebody had the brain pressure to read the owners manual. I sure didn't seem to have it.

 

[Deleted member 995608]

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...Pedal-issue-on-the-2014?p=2407515#post2407515

Take a read Bill. I am glad somebody had the brain pressure to read the owners manual. I sure didn't seem to have it.

That's great news. Now Chrysler needs to reprogram.

But this still doesn't solve the problem as some trucks are worse than others and a few have NO symptoms at all. I've test driven over a dozen 2014's and I could only get (2) of them to reproduce the dead pedal feel.

EDIT: I just read the 2014 manual online but I wasn't able to locate any of the info about throttle delay or pushing the brake and throttle at the same time etc etc.