Clutchless shifting?

[JoelCool]

How many of you use your clutch when shifting? I showed my truck to a guy at work who has an older 350 dually 5 speed, and noticed right away that he prefers to NOT use the clutch when shifting. I tried it a bit today, and it seems like a fun way to drive the truck. Is this technique easier on the clutch?

 

[Forrest Nearing]

slightly easier on the clutch, much harder on the synchros... your truck was designed to be shifted using the clutch... use it...



Forrest

 

[nickleinonen]

the clutch is a wearable component designed for easy service. the synchros are designed to last much longer than the clutch when the clutch is used. clutch is dirt cheap and easy compared to a trans overhaul for dead synchros from clutchless shifting. heck, i double clutch my trans when it is cold to ease the load on the synchros...

 

[CAKUZ]

Another double-clutcher here. You are begging for transmission damage in not useing the clutch as it was designed.

 

[gsbrockman]

If I didn't want to use a clutch, I'd bought a truck with 48RE.

 

[Jim Potteiger]

I didn't know it was possible to shift a 6 speed without the clutch. Probably, not a good idea. Guess if it works for you then go for it!!!!!!

 

[SClements]

Synchros will be junk without the clutch. I've seen alot of 6-speeds that grind really bad going into 3rd from being driven like that.

Seane

 

[JoelCool]

Thanks for the words. I think I'll go ahead and use the clutch. This thing is so much fun to drive!

 

[bgilbert]

If you know what your doing, its not hard on them. Better leave it to the CDL drivers that do it all the time. Bill

 

[JoelCool]

Originally posted by bgilbert

If you know what your doing, its not hard on them. Better leave it to the CDL drivers that do it all the time. Bill

Yeah, that was pretty much my thoughts. I can do it, but it takes more concentration than I'd like to give it. I will never approach the hours behind the wheel the pros get, so I'd be better off replacing my clutch at a normal interval.

 

[EEngel]

double-clutcher

Sorry guys, I have to ask... I am sitting here with a dazed/confused look on my face. I have never heard that term before. Is it just pumping the clutch once prior to shifting?

 

[Dean Upson]

I really think the clutch should be used all the time, I see no advantage at all in not using it and agree that it will wear the syncros. If you don't want to use the clutch, get the 48RE .



Dean

 

[RussW1911]

Now I know you guys are all 3rd Gens but, my little experience opened the lookers. At 13k They rebuilt my transmission. Awesome, truck runs great. At 28k They gave me a NEW transmission. Truck runs great again. 3rd gear synchros both times. My six speed is clutch driven from now on. I thought I would be saving wear on the clutch. I didn't think I would be hurting the transmission. Oh what we learn from the TDR.

 

[RustyJC]

Big rig transmissions are non-synchronized - the driver "floats" the engine RPM to match gear speeds for clutchless shifting. Synchronized transmissions such as our trucks use are not designed for clutchless shifting. If input/output RPMs are not precisely matched, the synchro is trying to accelerate/decelerate the pressure plate, clutch disk, flywheel, crankshaft, harmonic balancer, engine-driven accessories, etc. , none of which it was designed to do - using the clutch for a shift, it only has to accelerate/decelerate the clutch disk.



Your $$$$$ - your choice.



Rusty

 

[Mathew Clausen]

Eengel - double clutching is as follows:



First - press in clutch and bring trans to neutral.

Let out clutch

Next - bring engine rpms as close as you can guess to what they will be for the next gear.

Press clutch in and shift trans into the gear.

this puts very little load on the syncros - because the gears are already at close to the correct speeds.



The point of double clutching is that in order to match the gear speeds within the trans, you need to have the engine connected to the trans - hence then need to let the clutch out while in the middle of shifting (neutral). If you keep the clutch pressed in, you cannot control the input shaft speed (with the engine), because the clutch is disengaged from the engine.



As far as shifting a synchronized trans with no clutch - I do it sometimes but it is difficult because you can't feel the relative speed (due to the synchro). I never use more than very light pressure (like with a couple of fingers) - because as mentioned in a previous post - with the clutch engaged the synchros will try to force the engine and vehicle to match speeds which they are not designed to do. Normally I double clutch at every shift.



Keep in mind - shifting without the clutch came about from driving UN-synchronized transmissions - where you basically have to (or double clutch) because you must manually match gear speeds without the synchro. I can't see how not using the clutch during shifts will save any wear on the clutch - as long as you fully release the clutch before applying power (i. e. don't slip it).



Mathew

 

[EEngel]

Thanx for the info

Mathew,



Thanks for the description. Sounds like that might take me a bit to get use to. I will give it a try.

 

[Takomax]

Clutch usage

Originally posted by RustyJC

Big rig transmissions are non-synchronized - the driver "floats" the engine RPM to match gear speeds for clutchless shifting. Synchronized transmissions such as our trucks use are not designed for clutchless shifting. If input/output RPMs are not precisely matched, the synchro is trying to accelerate/decelerate the pressure plate, clutch disk, flywheel, crankshaft, harmonic balancer, engine-driven accessories, etc. , none of which it was designed to do - using the clutch for a shift, it only has to accelerate/decelerate the clutch disk.



Your $$$$$ - your choice.



Rusty

Before I was graduated from college I drove log trucks and gravel trucks. Usually they had a 13 speed road ranger. A couple had dual sticks - they were fun!



Anyway, the Raodranger is the sweetest transmission. I almost never used the clutch except when starting off. We used to call it "rythm shifting". This will not work well on our transmission.



I almost wish I could trade out my 6 speed for a Roadranger.

 

[RonsRig]

Roadrangers don't have synchros. Synchros will get beat up if you don't use the clutch. But once they are gone, you can shift it like a Roadrange until the gears break.

 

[dseabaugh]

The pickup I have now is the only truck I've ever had that rolls its own windows and shifts its on gears. Out of previous trucks I have had many that the only time I used the clutch was to start out from a stop other than 3 chevrolets. which needed all the help they could get. 1 truck had over 600,000 when I quit driving it, another had 472,000 when I sold it and several others almost 200,000 when I sold them. My Ford has 173,000 on it now and like the last truck, not only do I not use the clutch, but I usually skip half the gears. Only the last ever had any trans. troubles and none ever needed a clutch. The last dodge had a 5 speed and I only shifted 2nd, 3rd, and 5th probably 90% of the miles that were put on the truck. What is that extra peddle for????

 

[PJereb]

When I went to truck driving school last year they explained different shifting styles and why rowing through the gears without the clutch is really bad.



I drove a Freightliner with a Roadranger 10 speed, the info below was from a written presentation from Eaton Fuller.



"Shifting without the use of the clutch or single clutching may damage the clutching teeth of the mainshaft gears and the sliding clutch gears"



"Damage occurs because the tip of the clutching tooth receives the load which is normally carried by the entire tooth. Chipping and rounding of the teeth results, eventually leading to slipout.



Anyway, I am not sure how it applies to our NV5600's but I am positive that it must round the teeth a bit when you shift without using the clutch, unless you have some sort of God like ability to exactly match gear speeds with x-ray vision.