Compound turbo

[brillmtb]

Looking for more power, lower get and better towing. I don't see any recent discussions on compound turbos but new kits coming out. Is it true that they add a lot of power, increase mileage and decrease get 300 degrees. I'm ready for one if true then will rebuild transmission as needed. Not racing but how about getting the 5.9 up to the newest dodges power range?

 

[AH64ID]

Compound turbo's will not add any power, as they only add air and it takes fuel to make power. With the same tuning they will decrease EGT's, but how much depends on the setup.

Compound turbo's do allow you to increase fueling and keep EGT's in check. On a moderate tow tune, 400/850 to the rear wheels (which is around 470/1000 at the crank), you can keep EGT's in check with a single turbo and good tuning. If you spend a lot of time at lower rpms or high elevation then compounds start to really shine.

I run a single turbo and tuning that dyno's at 400/850 and unless it is above 75° and 6K feet I do not easily exceed 1250° EGT's and rarely need more than 80% load to climb a 6-8% grade at 55-65 mph and 20K GCW.

So what exactly are your goals, besides meeting the power of the new trucks? How heavy do you tow? Where do you tow?

 

[brillmtb]

So what exactly are your goals, besides meeting the power of the new trucks? How heavy do you tow? Where do you tow?[/QUOTE]



So I don't think I can keep my 03 with smarty jr set at tow, pulling my 27-5L AF which weighs in around 11K at less than 1200 degrees going up an 8% grade that fast. I live at 5500 feet and go through the sierras all the time and often at temps >75 outside. The compound turbo folks say that I can get 480 hp and 300 degrees less in my otherwise stock truck. Of course the next thing I worry about is the transmission and I would rebuild if it fails.

I would like power for towing, not racing, be able to keep my stock transmission for now and get my EGTs down.

 

[brillmtb]

OK, a little more research. It seems that for towing the compound is the way to go. ATS makes a 3000/5000 compound that drops EGT significantly if you believe the tests. I guess then I should consider adding additional engine and transmission cooling and perhaps engine studs. I am not trying to make a racer but a solid towing rig.

 

[lramsey]

Be prepared to upgrade trans. Seriously consider adding studs if you add compound turbos. After trans upgrade look at Snow Performance as that will control EGT more than anything else and yoo'll get 70+ HP.
Have you upgraded air filter & exhaust?

 

[brillmtb]

Be prepared to upgrade trans. Seriously consider adding studs if you add compound turbos. After trans upgrade look at Snow Performance as that will control EGT more than anything else and yoo'll get 70+ HP.
Have you upgraded air filter & exhaust?

So it looks like with a tank about 1200 dollars. So do you go down the road with this on all the time or only when you want more power. how long does a gallon of the methanol mix last. Since I enjoy an 03 without DEF I am not sure I want to keep track of filling methanol. Sure, about 2 grand difference in price at outset however.

 

[Shadrach]

I ran a Garrett PowerMax Stage II turbo with a AFE s/s Blade Runner exhaust manifold on my 03 and found it great for towing. I also had a cam in it and a 6 Speed stick.

David

 

[lramsey]

I leave system on all the time as 1st stage sprays at 16 psi; 2nd stage sprays around 25 psi. Pulling 21 K GVCW I use a gallon to 100 miles and empty 500 miles to a gallon. Water meth cheap version (about 40/60 mix vs 50/50 optimal) you get-20 windshield washer fluid. I get at Sam's Club for 6 pack around $12.

I can't get profile to show my mods so I'll list a few. ATS 3000/5000; Stage 5 trans; ATS filter; Edge CTS lvl 6; ARP studs; 5" exhaust turbo back; ATS Co pilot; Pacbrake exhaust brake. Truck built for towing. I pull my 10 K enclosed car hauler from my Mom's in VA to Utah and run with cruise On. Around Laramie WY you reach 8700 feet. Two different Dyno's 632/1200 to wheels. By the way, water meth injection will give you better mileage towing and it's less than $2 a gallon versus diesel which is $2.70 +.

 

[lramsey]

Test if shows my profile.

 

[AH64ID]

So I don't think I can keep my 03 with smarty jr set at tow, pulling my 27-5L AF which weighs in around 11K at less than 1200 degrees going up an 8% grade that fast. I live at 5500 feet and go through the sierras all the time and often at temps >75 outside. The compound turbo folks say that I can get 480 hp and 300 degrees less in my otherwise stock truck. Of course the next thing I worry about is the transmission and I would rebuild if it fails.

I would like power for towing, not racing, be able to keep my stock transmission for now and get my EGTs down.

You are already at the limits of the stock transmission so anything more would require upgrades. I personally would do the trans first and turbo/power second. It is almost always cheaper to upgrade than rebuild/upgrade.

1200° isn't a big deal for your motor and you should be good at 1250° continuous.

There are some stocker twin kits as well that are good for spool and towing and you only have to buy piping and 1 turbo, not 2 new turbos.

Have you upgraded air filter & exhaust?

The OEM air filter is the best there is for the OEM housing, which will flow enough air for 450+ (especially with a Home Depot CAI mod) so the OP should stick with a OEM setup if possible. Some twin kits do not allow it thou. The underhood temps on these trucks get pretty dang hot when towing and the more outside air that can be pulled the better.

The exhaust wouldn't be a bad idea to up to a full 4" when/if a twin kit is done.

 

[brillmtb]

Iramsey,

So you have the compound turbo I was looking at. It I just drop that on, perhaps replace studs given that my stock truck is 305 hp I believe and with the smarty jr is at 375 if you believe the smarty guys what do you think the power would be with just the turbos? I looked at the curves for the compound and just the 3000 and they overlap almost exactly so that didn't make sense to me and tried to call ATS today to explain as it appears I could just drop in the 3000 and have better towing and more power than the stock turbo.

Is the methanol just to lower egt or does it add HP.

If I upgrade my transmission now through ATS, what is the stage I can probably get away with since I am not racing and plan to have no more than 500hp ever and really am looking at improved towing, better egt and increase in mileage if possible.

Will be calling ATS tomorrow. I know there are many transmission companies out there but is there any reason to look elsewhere. ATS seems to be a good company?

 

[lramsey]

WOW just input for 10 minutes and lost after I hit wrong button.
I think with twins you will be 450-500. I love my twins.
Water meth will provide lower EGT, Less smoke, more HP, and better mileage.
Exhaust of <5" will increase EGT. I've had 5 to 4 and back to 5. I won't go < 5 ".
You need to determine What stage. I chose stage 5 because I wanted 600 WHP.

Tell ATS that truck would be used for towing as that might be different torque converter. Ask about getting Co Pilot as it limits FULL boost until trans get into lockup, which would help to last longer.
Hope this helps and doesn't confuse!

 

[lramsey]

Got profile to work.

 

[AH64ID]

Will be calling ATS tomorrow. I know there are many transmission companies out there but is there any reason to look elsewhere. ATS seems to be a good company?

There are lots of complaints with ATS about their customer service if you have an issue after the sale.

They are also often considered overpriced for the product but not as bad as Banks.

Their new improve 3K/5K kit is pretty darn nice thou! I really like how they have the turbo/intake setup. Underhood temps start to get very high when towing and an open element air filter just decreases turbo performance when you need the most performance out of it.

WOW just input for 10 minutes and lost after I hit wrong button.
I think with twins you will be 450-500. I love my twins.
Water meth will provide lower EGT, Less smoke, more HP, and better mileage.
Exhaust of <5" will increase EGT. I've had 5 to 4 and back to 5. I won't go < 5 ".
You need to determine What stage. I chose stage 5 because I wanted 600 WHP.

Tell ATS that truck would be used for towing as that might be different torque converter. Ask about getting Co Pilot as it limits FULL boost until trans get into lockup, which would help to last longer.
Hope this helps and doesn't confuse!

Twins don't add power, fuel adds power. Just going twins wont do anything for rwhp unless you are overfueled...such as black smoke all the time. You could go from having a good clean running 400 rwhp tune at 1250° to twins with a good clean tuning 400 rwhp tune at 900° if all you do is add twins. Nothing wrong with either tune, one just runs cooler and will do better at altitude.. but the twins don't add power.

Interesting observation on exhaust and defiantly not what most people see. 4" exhaust is plenty for up to 600+ rwhp and 5" is generally considered mostly for show below that area. If a 5" exhaust is making a different at the 450-500rwhp range then something is wrong with 4" setup. I realize you are 600, but even then how much of an EGT difference is it? Just curious.

Do you tow at 600rwhp? If so how often do you use it?

Have you only ever ran the Edge? The Edge products don't run the timing of some of the other setups which leads to more exhaust volume and could make the exhaust more noticeable.

What kind of EGT's are you running to use water meth and twins while towing?

Do you monitor oil temp while towing?

 

[lramsey]

I won't address above comments as most are opinion and no fact and least more something read on the Internet.
I have stated facts based on my truck that has been upgraded for 7 years and 60K miles.
Please upgrade your truck and then provide facts.

 

[AH64ID]

I won't address above comments as most are opinion and no fact and least more something read on the Internet.
I have stated facts based on my truck that has been upgraded for 7 years and 60K miles.
Please upgrade your truck and then provide facts.

You can still answer questions to provide some real data....

Most are observations/fact based on more than one truck, more than 7 years, and a lot more than 60K miles and general knowledge of how things actually work... maybe you could engage in a friendly conversation and answer some questions for more data as it helps everyone out. Being unwilling to back your statements up with a conversation doesn't do much for your credibility. We are all here to help each other out.

I am simply trying to get some more information out of you since your results/comments are not the norm.. not saying they are wrong just trying to get more info... some of it doesn't add up and curious as how you got to B from A.

You told the OP he will increase the power. Do you have something to back this up? There is only so much fuel in his Smarty Jr so how is he going to get to 450-500 just by adding twins? I know for a FACT he cannot make that much power with it.. how do you think he can?

Ask some questions on my background, knowledge, use, mods, etc if you have them... don't just ASSume something.

 

[cerberusiam]

I won't address above comments as most are opinion and no fact and least more something read on the Internet.
I have stated facts based on my truck that has been upgraded for 7 years and 60K miles.
Please upgrade your truck and then provide facts.

Word up now, you are really HB in disguise, right? :-laf


60k miles in 7 years? Do you actually drive and use the truck, other than back and forth to the mall or dyno? That is not a lot of miles for any conclusive testing. John pointed out some very obvious discrepancies in your post, and, asked some valid questions that most of us discovered to be important years ago.

Do you have some real info to share? Do we need the secret squirrel password?

 

[inlinesix3million]

HAHAHAHA!!! You guys are awesome...

 

[brillmtb]

OK, I have been reading more and I am ready to upgrade 48re and add the compound turbo. ATS recommended just adding the 5000 to stock although using their 3000/5000 is probably better for my goal of increased power, no loss of mileage, drops in EGT so I can tow better overall. I am not making a race truck although it will be interesting to see how it compares to the newer model trucks running 850 ft lbs vs my 2003 5.9. I decided based on cost of new truck, more complexities to new trucks, fact that I really don't need all the new bells and whistles (that's why I bought my wife and Acura MDX fully loaded with advance package and what a vehicle that is)

I just want a reliable power and at almost 200k perhaps I should switch the transmission now before I start having issues and I think it will be mandatory with the increase in power. So, at risk of starting a war I was discussing transmission upgrades with ATS then I read they were good at first then went through a period when their quality was questionable but how are they now. Seems like there is a lot of opinions about aftermarket trannies out there making it very difficult for me to sort thorough the weeds and just get what I am paying for. With everyone putting in billet this and billet that and adding cluch packs and better TQ is there really a transmission company that stands out these days from an objective standpoint.

Also, is there another compound turbo setup/company I should look at based on what my goals are. Thanks in advance.

 

[brillmtb]

I guess I should add that I did learn that you cant get more power with my smarty jr and adding a compound unit but you can if you upgrade to the smarty sr which would be part of my plan.