Considering a 2003 VW Jetta TDI ... comments please.

[FATCAT]

I am considering a new VW Jetta TDI for commuting purposes. I do over 150 miles a day and currently divide it between my old 1990 Crown Victoria and my Truck. The Crown Vic is getting old fast and may need to be retired before the winter is out. I am looking for milage mainly ... and 48 - 50 mpg highway is hard to beat.



My question is this: I know that many of you folks own VW diesels, what are your thoughts on your VW diesels.

Likes, dislikes, quality issues, would you buy one again, etc...



What are the things to look out for (i. e. trouble), how is VW's quality compared to Toyota, Nissan, etc... and if you have B. O. M. B'ed your VW.



There are other good milage gas cars out there, but like the looks of the Jetta (even though its a tiny car), and need to know if the quality is there.



Thanks.

 

[Riflesmith]

You want info of VW TDI's? Click on this link:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?category=3



A TDI Jetta will be my next car purchase.

 

[wxman]

I've had two Jetta TDIs... a 1998 which I sold with 128,000 miles on it, and a 2002 which currently has over 33K miles. I've had no problems with the 2002 and only had to replace a glow plug relay on the 1998.



As for "BOMBing", I had a PS2000 propane kit on the 1998 which I found to be quite impressive. The biggest problem with the propane kit was placement of the propane tank. The 2002 has had a Van Aaken "Smart Box" since April. This also has been an impressive addition and make the Jetta down right peppy. On top of that, I achieved over 57 mpg in May when I picked up my son from college (Chicago). Also my wife and I took a trip to New England in September and achieved 56. 5 mpg (2797 miles on 49. 5 gallons). Not bad for a fully loaded car with the air conditioning on most of the way!



We've been very happy with both TDIs and couldn't recommend them more highly!

 

[Wheaties]

What? Holeshot hasn't posted to this thread yet?

I'm going to have to talk to that boy!



MTE

 

[FATCAT]

Wheaties,

what do ya think Holeshot has to say about these little VW ... good or bad?



Some folks here at work say just buy a cheap Kia for $9,000 and save the money, but I figure that you get what you pay for ... cheap.



Looking for fun as well as good milage.

 

[Wheaties]

Holeshot just bought a used Beetle TDI and is having a ripping good time with it. Runs great, gets 45+ mpg, and goes like stink. It's comfortable, quiet... . He'll be sure to chime in, I just emailed him to let him know the thread is here.



He has driven it to the last two truck related events and it looks like a keeper.



Matt

 

[Peter Campbell]

I have a 2002 Jetta. Runs great. Not a sprts car but can get out of its own way--. Great commuting car. Can be bombed with chips and such if you want. From what I hear the timing belts are now a 100,000 mile job instead of 60,000 mile on the 2002's. Great mileage. Will not be dissapointed at all. Fit and finish are great. Road feel and handling are crisp. I also have a 2002 saturn in the family. The jetta is so much better handling and accelerating. But the saturn is a base model. I got the jetta with the the highest trim level for diesel ( GLS ) not many options options available. But the packages include a lot. I got the Luxury package, with monsoon radio/cd player and moonroof. If you order also get the cold weather package. Nothing for the engine but it gives heated seats and windshield washer nozzles. The common rail system needs little help for cold weather ( unproven bought car in spring ).

The warts. . Timing belt change is a 700$ job. Intake manifolds can clog with soot. There are bombs/defeats to the EGR and crancase ventilation to fix that. Uses synthetic oil but with a long drain interval ( not bad just info )

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Pete: Unless your car was imported from Europe... your TDI doesn't have common rail injection. The common rail "Pump Dousse (sp?)" engines are rated for 150hp... and share very few parts with the 90hp 'AGR' U. S. TDI version... .



The 'AGR' fuel injection system uses a Bosch VP-37 - basically the 4-cylinder version of the VP-44 - in a pump/nozzle configuration. It has NO LIFT PUMP other than the pump built into the injection pump. They use a two-stage injection process ("Pilot-Injection") to reduce noise substantially.



Any U. S. TDI built after '98 is susceptible to a number of problems... most of which were already discussed (intake/EGR, etc. ). Another thing to keep in the back of your mind is the MAF sensor (Mass Air Flow)... . they like to freak out on these cars. The direct replacement is around $250, but you can use a $40 MAF out of the 2. 0L gasser engines with only a little Kentucky windage.



My car has started in 10-degree weather so far this year (and started just fine before I replaced the battery, which was really weak!). The glow-plug system (yes, they do have glow plugs... even though they are direct injection... . ) is smart in that it doesn't really need much heating time at all... . it's only enabled below 9° F... . and even when it is really cold out, you only have to wait about 15 seconds before you crank it over.



Maintenance is a no-brainer... it's so simple. The really lazy guys change their oil without even getting underneath the car - the oil filter CARTRIDGE can be serviced from the top, and they suck the oil out through the dipstick tube - which makes a "no-drip" oil change a very distinct reality.



Cool and VERY nice features: There are glow plugs in the cooling system to heat the coolant up faster (only on 5-speed cars... which most 'em are... . and NEVER get the auto with the TDI... they EAT the mileage like crazy), there's a nifty coolant temp light that stays blue until your engine oil reaches 180°F - reminding you not to romp on it too bad.



I'm not going to lie and say that this engine/platform is trouble free... . they have their quirks, but for the most part they are a VERY reliable setup... . and so incredibly smooth.



I love my car. I was VERY apprehensive at first about buying/owning it... . but there is no looking back now. It's comfy, quiet, handles like a sports car AND rides nice, reliable, VERY economical (43mpg is the lowest I have seen (I average between 43-49mpg)... and I romp the heck out of it... . 80+mph on the highway, stoplight jackrabbit starts, etc. ) It'll outrun an ISB Cummins with 4. 10's, DDIII's and the Comp box on!! (yes, I've tested this theory!)



As for power upgrades... . I have a set of basically stage IV injector nozzles coming for it... . so we'll see how that goes. They have 90hp/155ft-lbs AT THE WHEELS bone stock... . there are guys in excess of 200hp and 300ft. /lbs. out there... yet those cases are kinda rare.



A chip/box will increase hp/Tq by 25/35... . and really wakes 'em up nicely. I have been driving mine bone stock (with the exception of the straight-pipe and a free air intake modification) for almost two months (I've only had it two months... ) and it gets up and moves out of its own way just fine.



I could write more... but let's just say that my vote is a resounding YES!! get one! You won't be sorry..... the Ram will feel like a Oshkosh cement mixer by comparison. Yeah, I still have my Ram, but putting 40,000 miles a year on it this past year made me realize that I needed something more economical.



Feel free to contact me for any TDI problems/questions... . I'd love to spread around what I've learned.



Matt

 

[Jeff H]

Ive been pondering over getting one of these too.

Can a guy change timing belts him self?

 

[FATCAT]

Is the timing belt that super hard to change ... $700 ouch, my wifes Subaru isn't even half that much to replace. What do you have to do on the VW ... tear have the engine apart to get at it.



How about used TDI's in the 2 or 3 year old range? Is it better to go new then used in the VW diesel world? I would figure that if you buy used, first thing would be to replace the timing belt because who knows if the previous owner ever changed it ... add $700 on the the price of the used car from the start.



Now just gotta get the wife's buy in on this. My old 1990 Crown Vic is just wearing out (even though I bought it for $1 ... thats right $1), and am getting sick of the leaking windshield, locks that don't work, adding 2 qts of oil between changes and about a gallon of anti-freeze every 1000 miles or so.



Thanks for the info.

 

[Todd T]

a lady i work with has one. she is from an ALL DIESEL family



a few problems i know of that she has had are the window regulators go out and the windows get stuck (usually in the down position) it has happened twice now. she also had a problem with it jelling up on her in the winter. they found the only additive that would work is the stuff from the VW dealers. she has had a few problems with the sunroof too.



my impression of the car is they are great. awsome build quality, very detailed fitment, to inlude spring loaded grap handles with little hinged screw caps over the screw holes. (check your 34K Dodge grab handle next time you get in) it rides nice and quiet and gets 52mpg out on the highway.



for the love of God, she goes a month between fillups!

 

[HoleshotHolset]

As far as buying a used one... just make sure that you can get good service records with it. Mine was a 1-METICULOUS owner car... . all dealer maintained.



I can almost guarantee that there will be an issue with the EGR/intake being clogged up... . I got lucky... . mine wasn't all that nasty.



My TDI is a '98... and it had 91k miles on it. Nearly two months later it has 96k miles on it.



It starts/runs/drives just fine, and is worlds ahead of the Dodge as far as handling, ride, fit-`n-finish.....



The parts to change timing belts are about $200. This includes the timing belt, the tensioner... and a new serpentine belt. I have not personally done one... but I'm about to do two in one weekend pretty soon. I can't say for sure if you need special tools... . but I think you do need 'em. Because the injection pump is driven by the timing belt... it introduces a new issue to regular old timing belt swaps, you now have to 'time' the pump with everything else.



The good part is that you only have to do 'em every 40-60k miles... . and it's a small price to pay for all the other good reasons to own a TDI.



Matt

 

[FATCAT]

Well, not everyone likes VW's

On another board (non-truck or car related), I asked this same question about VW reliablility/quality and WOW, it was like asking if people Osama was a good guy.



Over some 20 responses said to keep far far away from VW due to electrical problems, expensive and hard to find parts, **** poor maintenance at dealerships, just to name a few.



I think there were 2 posivitive responses ... now I'm not saying that 25+ responses to a question makes for a good cross section of owners, but when over 90% come back with nothing good to say about their experiences ... I think I had better avoid these

VW's like the plague ... am I wrong?

 

[Wheaties]

One man's poison is another man's passion. And contrary to popular belief , anecdotal evidence isn't scientific proof.



Get yourself over to consumerreports.com if you want hard numbers on reliability. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels finding folks that will tell you what you want to hear. Don't go by what anyone says, make up your own mind for yourself!



Good luck to you!



Matt

 

[FATCAT]

Well Wheaties,

I know what you mean, but hearing real life stories from people who own/owned these cars has to have some validity.



I really would love for the VW Jetta TDI to be a great car, but since I last posted there have been 8 more people on the other site I asked the question, that have bashed the VW warning to stay away.



I found a site in England where people can post there reviews and a majority of them seem to be OK, but a few really blasted the car.



I'm sure it can be said about any car, but I need to really have a reliable car that, if something goes wrong, gets fixed right the first time ... and it seems that the VW dealers have horrible reputations for their service departments.



We'll see ... I'm still gathering data and opinions (yeah I know about opinions ... everyone's got one).

 

[TPCDrafting]

Interesting thread

What are you owners thoughts on owning one a TDI as a daily short distance driver? My wife drives a Saturn now and when it wears out, (it'll be a while it only has 122k on it) we are considering looking into a VW. We both had Bugs as first cars and really still like them. We still have hers, it's in my Dad's barn awaiting restoration. Anyway, her drive is only about 20 mins. of highway, but typically we use her car for all the runnin around town making all the stops. Typically diesels dont' like the short trips, is this the same for the TDI? Could this be part of the negative feedback as stated above? Are these owners using them as soccer mom / grocery-go-getters and getting poor results? Are they secretly in love with their car and trying to play them down to keep demand/price down?

 

[Peter Campbell]

About the timing belt. To do it all the normal PITA stuff plus new bolts for the injection pump. A computer program and a laptop with communication cord ( program and cord =200$ tool ) or a scan tool with the VW program in it. The program for the laptop is available from http://www.ross-tech.com The bolts are for the toothed wheel to hub connection on the injection pump drive. If the wrong bolt is loosened the pump is just a rebuildable core. Can be done in about two-three hours by someone with the tools and the knowledge/experience. Or at least that is what I hear. Other than that defeating the EGR and crancase ventilation to prevent sooting the intake is it as far as issues I know of. Cruise the tdiclub.com not as much technical as here but they are informative. -if you dig through the threads.

 

[BCFAST]

The Passat is the last VW we can buy here that's made in Germany. The rest are all Mexican except the Golf... I think its made in Brazil now (anyone remember our last Brazilian car? A: Merkur XR4Ti). The Passat is superior to be sure, but the Jetta, NB and Golf are superior, IMHO, to any Honda or Toyota or Nissan. If you pull down the headliner or yank off a door panel, you'll find fully-painted and clearcoated surfaces in the VW, and bare metal in the Jap stuff. Yes, I too have heard of a few cars with electrical woes, and yes the front window glass clasps fail on the Jetta... but overall, I'd choose the VW. By the way, VW will replace your broken plastic window clip and replace it with a new metal one. If your car is out of warranty, the clasps are about $18 for the pair. Enjoy the 50+mpg!!



Brian

 

[JKing]

If you want good information from people driving late model VW TDI's, go to the TDIClub forums that Riflesmith posted the link for. I did a lot of research before buying my 2003 Bug and learned alot from that site.



VW has offered an extension on the warranty for window regulators for 7 years due to the problems. The clips in 2003 models are now metal and solve the problem. http://forums.tdiclub.com/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=002287



Jetta TDI wagons are still made only in Germany.



My wife is really enjoying the Bug and I'm considering getting another one for my daily commute.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I do know that the TDI's like to have the occasional "Italian Tuneup". One tdiclub.com forum member stated that he drove it like a wuss and his EGR was REALLY clogged.



Mine wasn't clogged at all, but had some oily mess in there... BEFORE I did the CCV modification. This either means that the previous owner drove it like a race car, or it was cleaned out.....



There has been no info on short trips... . but the effects on the diesel are just like the gassers. You gotta get 'em up to full temperature every once and a while... . burns off all the nasties in the crankcase, etc.



Matt