cummins parts cd please read

[rrausch]

This sort of small-thinking crud is so annoying!

Here is something which would benefit thousands of Cummins costomers at a cost of one CD and some programming. It is something which would sell more Cummins parts. Foster a stronger relationship between customer and Cummins. Create Goodwill. And Mr. James Ford won't even come back on the board and say, "Gee guys, maybe this will work. I'll ask around on Monday and get back to you. " Instead we get the heavy-handed treatment.



Mr. Ford, will you come back in here and address some of our ideas?

 

[eGarwood]

Hey guys ..... Just My . 02 but I don't think Mr. Ford is an official member of TDR, I think he's just some pencil pusher for Cummins lookin' for a quick way to move up the company ladder by spying on us. #@$%! #@$%! #@$%! #@$%!

He doesn't care about helping us or Cummins, he will get his paycheck either way! If he catches one of us doing something that isn't 100% 'legal' ..... however it may benefit customers and Cummins he'll RAT to his superiors and they'll reward him. Haven't we already been shown that Cummins is no longer a "Customer Oriented Company" and is now being run by a bunch of money grubbing 'Blue Suits'? I mean if they were monitoring this forum to be more in touch with their clientel, they would be PMing all of us to come it to get our KDP's fixed... . or at least posting threads on inside info on helpful hints..... but all Mr. Jimmy Ford is worried about are Copyright Infringements. It does't take a Cummins Engineer to figure out where their priorities lie... . $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Ed3

 

[TxDieselKid]

my favorite line....

Originally posted by eGarwood

He doesn't care about helping us or Cummins, he will get his paycheck either way!



'legal' ..... however it may benefit customers and Cummins



Haven't we already been shown that Cummins is no longer a "Customer Oriented Company" and is now being run by a bunch of money grubbing 'Blue Suits'?



I mean if they were monitoring this forum to be more in touch with their clientel, they would be PMing all of us to come it to get our KDP's fixed... . or at least posting threads on inside info on helpful hints..... but all Mr. Jimmy Ford is worried about are Copyright Infringements.

We are huge market for Cummins to sell to if they ever opened up their eyes. I don't understand why they are so unwilling to help some of us hop up our power if we are willing to have our warrenties voided.



Along the lines of the KDP for us 24v'ers is the lift pump. Your telling me it is a great working pump that needs no recall? Give me a break.



I love my engine, but I hate the company that makes it because they seem to stick us out on a limb when it gets out of their doors. Just don't let them see Fritz site, they would have a ruptured spleen at all the great info.





My unadultrated $. 02,

Andrew

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

This is an interesting exchange to say the least. Looking at the post with James Ford's letter in it, he did contact George off-line - George posted his letter on here. I also see that James is with Cummins Northwest, which isn't affiliated with Cummins corporate other than they are a parts and service distributor for them. The way I read his letter was that he was trying to warn George of a potential legal liability and was being sarcastic with the "where should I send the bill" part.



You can get a customized parts manual specific for your exact engine (by that I mean your serial #) through Cummins. Back in issue #28 on page 108 there was an editor's note mentioning it:

The editor went out-on-a-limb for the TDR audience and ordered a customized parts catalog (CPC). This "net novice" found the web site extremely easy to use. The CPC took about a week to arrive. I had seen CPC-type catalogs before. I was impressed that the parts in the book were engine serial number specific. This book is a must if you have a need for a Cummins engine part. With the catalog you'll have the same access to the information as the Cummins parts representative. From a valve tappet, oil pan sealing washer, oil pressure sensor, crankshaft, camshaft, etc. , the CPC will help you identify the necessary parts for your engine. And, you'll find parts through Cummins are about two-thirds or less than the price from the OEM channel. Nice book, nice web site, check 'em out.

You can order the manual through the Cummins Powerstore at http://www.powerstore.cummins.com/c...ized_Parts_Catalogs&template=customized_parts - the cost is currently $55.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Steve,

Thanks for the link, but $55 is WAY over priced. I think if they sold it for $15 because of a TDR discount, that would be fair.



One other thing to point out is Mr. Ford signs it with Cummins Northwest, but also as "CEPC Coordinator".



Andrew

 

[eGarwood]

Way Overpriced????????????

Steve, Thanks for the link man. This is exactly the kind of thing I've been searching for!!!!!!!!!! I guess it's a little pricey,but then again, this will be a 'Customized' catalog . With ALL the info for MY engine serial # specific to MEEEEEE. 55 bucks for a Big conglomerate like Cummins to look up the info for my motor , and then print it out and bind it into a catalog for ME. Heck it's normally hard enough to get someone to look up one part # on the phone, which after being on hold..... etc. etc. could very well take the better portion of an hour. I don't know about the rest of the TDR members but I would think that if they can afford to purchase a CTD then they must be making upwards of 20 bucks an hour,at thier respective daytime jobs. Well it does't take a RS to figure out that 2 calls to Mr. Cummins could save you the 55 bucks in just time wasted on the phone!!!!!!! JMHO Ed3

 

[Briar Hopper]

Neat catalog, but how does that help me get my buddy's truck fixed, when it's a different year/model? Obviously, Cummins wants to play their cards close to the vest, ensuring they get a lot more business , in terms of service. In other words, don't try to fix it yourself, take it to them.

It's outrageous at the lack of tech help we get from Cummins or Dodge on this site. The most support we get is a few PowerStore T-shirts at events, along with a wild-eyed:--) Dodge representative displaying damaged VP44's and preaching his "thou shalt not BOMB" message...

The Chevy guys got a lot of support from members that actually work for GM... .

 

[LAnthony]

Just my 2 cents

For those of you that are bagging on Mr. Ford perhaps you should cut him some slack. He is just doing his job. I am sorry if some of you can't get good, timley parts help from your local Cummins dist. but that has nothing to do with the fact that this thread is talking about stealing copyrighted cd's. I feel your frustration about wanting more information, but it is out there. I feel the point you are making is that you don't want to pay for it. If that is the case, just make a call to your local Cummins Distributer and get the info... for free... over the phone. If you feel that you need more info than that, it is also available, for a price. If Cummins paid to put together this info, they have every right to be compensated for it.

 

[TxDieselKid]

^^^^

^ ^



Anyways, Yes I do think that $55 is high when all they do is copy and paste from a master list of engines. Think about it, a 99 is a 99 is a 99. Just click, and burn.



Andrew

 

[redneckdr]

.02 more

i don't want to be understood to be advocating violating copyrights... ... ... BUT , if i had a parts CD, it would decrease the stress getting parts.

Cummins would WIN. i would WIN. win/win situations are just that. now, if i took the info and somehow used it to compete with cummins and take business from them, i could understand the objection from them. if i use the info to buy more parts from them... ... ... ... ... . oh well, this discussion is getting nowhere, i guess. apparently it ain't gonna happen... ... ... .

 

[Don M]

Not sure why Cummins wont let part number CD's be copied.

I ended up buying the parts specific manual for my CPL number.

It sure makes it nice to just flip it open and call the Cummins guys with the part number I need. The exploded views give me good idea how stuff looks or goes back together.

Mine cost me about 40 bucks. Wish I had done it earlier.

The book has saved me tons of time in getting parts ready to install. Prolly already paid for itself.



Don~

 

[LAnthony]

one more thing

I understand your objections to $55 dollars for a parts manual, but it is not as easy as click and burn. Cummins is not a book publisher, they are an engine manufacturer. All there "books" are printed by a third party. Do you really want Cummins wasting there time figuring out how to print cheaper books?

 

[redneckdr]

my last thoughts

i'll probably ante up for the catalog. i anted up for the parts catalog for my 2650 John Deere. it cost me more than that. it sure makes parts searching simple. i find the part i need, call the dealer, and if they don't have it, it is ordered. they appreciate my knowing the specific part number i need. it still would have benefitted both of us, if they had furnished it. i guess my paying for it benefitted them. i can't believe Cummins would not make money in the long run, if they furnished each new owner a parts catalog. paper for those who don't like computers. cd for those of us who would like it on CD-ROM... .

I'M DONE. :{

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Cummins need put figure out how to make cheaper books if they'd sell the cds at a reasonable price. A stamped CD is by far the cheapest method to publish material other than FTP from a web site.



I'd buy the cds only at $5 ea from cummins and at that rate they'd sell enough to cover costs of publication and duplication because they'd sell them by the pallet.



Giving the info to customers would do nothing but make loyal consumers happier with thier suppliers. . an win-win proposition.



Why not just post the parts cd image on the web to download. Then we get it for free and they need not worry about copywrite infringement.



we don't want the services just the parts and/or service manuals. God forbid the consumer get better at serviceing their Cummins vehicles and improve the average mean time to overhaul. It might just make thier great reputation even better.



A consumer freindly manufacturer that produces an excellent product... what a concept.

 

[BK]

I came into this late...

I understand the copyright issues and Cummins has a leg to stand on, it sucks but they do. I understand George was trying todo the friendly thing and help fellow members along, from what he was charging, he just covered the disks and mailing. So it's not like he was trying to make money on this deal.



But in my industry, electronics. The manufacturers of IC's, semiconductors, and any other part you could think of are not in the business of publishing either, (like was mentioned earlier in another post about cummins), but made their money on the parts. But these companies threw their books (back before there was CD's) at us. These manufacturers of parts paid reps to visit our design labs to see if we needed any updates. . all free...

Sure there was competition between them, and the goal was to get designed... it was something they needed to do and it was a risk, just because they gave us their catalog like every other manufacturer did, didnt mean we designed in their part... . there was also all sorts of free technical support if there were any questions with the use or application for their part. Once CD came into being, it's so much cheaper to publish to CD than paper. My inbox would be filled with CD. Reps started loosing some business, the reps were the gate keepers of the paper books since publishing them was so expensive and there was a limited run, the reps had to make sure they got to the right people. CD's are so cheap and it's easy to publish more when needed. . Now they just mail them out to anyone with EE credentials.

A New version of their CD... , new mailing... less reps disturbing my day. My office no longer needs to look like a public library.

And the Web. . great if you didnt get a CD yet...

I love CD's and the web for research.

(All this books and CD's were copyright protected as well, lots of warnings. . but ment for the competition, not the engineers)



Anway Free or token costed CD's are freekin do-able... ...



So I agree with all the other posts about Cummins being short sighted on supplying these CD's to those who laid out the extra hard earned cash to buy a Dodge cause there is a Cummins under the hood.



Cummins is just looking at this as another income producer... but they should wake up and take some lessons about customer support and how to develop loyalty among us little folks. Us little folks account for 2/3'rds of the economic spending.

Get more flys with sugar that @#$.



I'm sure mopar, chevy and ford will hand out their performance parts catalogs with crosses. . to sell those parts. If they charge, probably a nominal fee like the truck shops around here do. 10 bucks for a 3-4 inch thick book and the smaller make / model specific books are free. They do it to sell aftermarket parts.



When Dewalt got into the cordless tool market, they were the 1st to produce a high voltage drill (think it was 18v at the time) about 12 years ago or so, but to help sell the expensive drill and break into the contractors market (where AC is usually hard to come by to plug chargers into) they developed a good charger that ran off of the cig lighter in the trucks. . was real expensive to manufacture. . they sold it for about 15 bucks cheaper than it cost for them to make (sold it for 40 bucks, price target from their market research)... why. . to sell the drills that they made like 60-80% profit on at the time. They were the 1st out with a quick 12vdc charger for an 18v drill, they did damn well with it, smart marketing.



George, we all know your heart was in the right place. . but corporate america doesn't like that if it may hurt their bottom line. Which it aint in this case cause none of us are gonna give Cummins $900 for the damn things, thats what makes this even more idiotic.



All right, I've blown off my steam.

Regards all,

Bob

 

[LAnthony]

A post for James Ford Cummins Northwest

TDR members,

Reply by James Ford, Cummins Northwest, Inc.



I am replying and responding as per requested by the members of this site.



In my defense, George has chosen to post my email in regards to making copies of the CEPC CD's. To start with I am making a public apology to George for the lack of professionalism in my email to him.



George, please except my apology!



I was blasted by several of you and well deserved.



On the subject of coping the CD's, it is copyrighted material and can not be copied for distribution even if it is for free.



Now, to answer some of your responses.



I can not answer all of the response to the CD's, but I will give it a good try.



As far as Cummins monitoring the site, I'm not sure as to how much or how close it is watched. I do believe that it should be watched more closely. Not to catch some one coping software, but to find out about you, the customer. This is a wealth of knowledge; it can be a great place to gather information about how well we are doing and your needs as a customer. The posting of CD's for distribution was brought to my attention by one of our sales associates.



I would like to thank those that supported my effort to stop the coping of copyrighted software. These take time and money to compile, program and support. I'm sure that we can all understand the value of receiving a paycheck for our labor.



Some questioned the free distribution of the CD's could increase sales. This information is free if you call your local Cummins Distributor. We will be more than glad to look up any part you need and will supply you with the part number if requested. Our parts counter employees are trained professionals, with the knowledge to help you get the correct parts for your application. I believe that the employees at our location are among the top professional in the field, with many years of experience.



One posting suggested having a site to support the Cummins ISB owners, great idea! We currently have a Cummins Booster Club Membership that allows a member to have special purchase privileges. This could possibly be something to incorporate in this membership in the future. This is the kind of information that we need to better support you. I truly believe in putting together programs designed by the customer and not cooperate sponsored program that gets pushed into action just to get ignored. Even the negative replies help; it serves as a message to change the way we do business. I look at them as corrective criticism.



Another posting suggested, "probably a benefit rather than a harm. " The harm could be, and is, old data and technical information. These part numbers change on a regular basis, if someone uses a number from the copied disk, which is good and still in service but has no knowledge of a current service topic, the repair can do more damage then good. Some old part can be used providing special instructions are followed. If the instructions are not then maybe the newer part was needed. This is just one area of many to be concerned about. Of course Cummins gets the blame in these cases. We have many customers that call in a place an order by the part number only and it is sold. In most cases these are dealers that are supported and trained to use the correct data.



I keep reading information about support and a site to support. This could be possible but it would cost. I did like the idea of a member site to access information for Cummins ISB engine owners. This and all of the ideas will definitely be passed along.



One posting mentions a CPC, another great idea. These are catalogs that are serial number specific. The engine serial number specific catalog will cover your needs only. However I suggest that you still bring in your serial number when ordering parts, this way the parts person can make sure you are receiving the correct part and any applicable service topics available.



Cummins Power Store:

http://www.powerstore.cummins.com/



Cummins Power Store CPC:

http://www.powerstore.cummins.com/c...ized_Parts_Catalogs&template=customized_parts



I challenge you to return to your Cummins Distributor or Dealer for parts and service. Demand a parts professional when ordering parts and settle for nothing less. Because you have chosen a Cummins engine, which is the best in it's class and you should receive the same in return from your Cummins Distributors.



I commend all of for your involvement in this forum and any other Cummins site that you place your feedback on. If you have a problem with your local Cummins Distributor treating you unfair, complain. Believe me, they are listening and bad customer service is not the policy.



James Ford

Cummins Northwest, Inc.

CEPC Coordinator

(One of many hats)

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by BK









Anway Free or token costed CD's are freekin do-able... ...



So I agree with all the other posts about Cummins being short sighted on supplying these CD's to those who laid out the extra hard earned cash to buy a Dodge cause there is a Cummins under the hood.



Cummins is just looking at this as another income producer... but they should wake up and take some lessons about customer support and how to develop loyalty among us little folks. Us little folks account for 2/3'rds of the economic spending.

Get more flys with sugar that @#$.



I'm sure mopar, chevy and ford will hand out their performance parts catalogs with crosses. . to sell those parts. If they charge, probably a nominal fee like the truck shops around here do. 10 bucks for a 3-4 inch thick book and the smaller make / model specific books are free. They do it to sell aftermarket parts.



When Dewalt got into the cordless tool market, they were the 1st to produce a high voltage drill (think it was 18v at the time) about 12 years ago or so, but to help sell the expensive drill and break into the contractors market (where AC is usually hard to come by to plug chargers into) they developed a good charger that ran off of the cig lighter in the trucks. . was real expensive to manufacture. . they sold it for about 15 bucks cheaper than it cost for them to make (sold it for 40 bucks, price target from their market research)... why. . to sell the drills that they made like 60-80% profit on at the time. They were the 1st out with a quick 12vdc charger for an 18v drill, they did damn well with it, smart marketing.



George, we all know your heart was in the right place. . but corporate america doesn't like that if it may hurt their bottom line. Which it aint in this case cause none of us are gonna give Cummins $900 for the damn things, thats what makes this even more idiotic.



All right, I've blown off my steam.

Regards all,

Bob

The issue is not books, it's a cd, and it is just click and burn. I have a burner and it works like this... ..... (music example with subsitutions)



1)Open burner program.

2)click and drag the song(engine model) you want on cd

3)click "Start" to burn



I have bought CDs for the price of about $0. 10 apiece, and that was only for 50.



Failing to see the point,

Andrew

 

[BK]

Andrew,



"Failing to see the point,

Andrew"









My point or Cummins point?

Or which point... not sure what you ment... ?



I agree with you, CDs are real cheap... and that there should be away for Cummins to offer the CD's at a price other than at a level of 900 bucks or even 90 bucks.



Cummins is saying it's more... it's also a subscribtion service and telephone support service thats being paid for by the selling price of the CD set. Ok it is... that's their "business plan" for the 900 bucks. . but thats not what we need.



But. .



My point is that the electronics parts industry offered the equivalent for years in paper and telephone support for free. . The paper was even more expensive than CD's... now it's 99% CD. hard to find catalogs published in paper. It was all done to sell their parts.



Even the issue of old numbers and specs and replacement part numbers, the parts industry in the world of electronics handles that very well. You may have an old number, try to order it, a slightly newer number will come up to alert to a change. The new Spec sheets are always availible for faxing for review. Sorry, I don't agree with Cummins' reasoning. . I just see it as an excuss ( really a business model / plan) to sell a subscriptions and subscription service and keep it as a profit center. They can do it, doesn't mean we have to like it. It works for the repair shops, again not what we need.

Even the milspecs. . sure you can pay big dollars to a service to keep your CD's and or micro film (older days) updated (subscription service). Or you got them at a reasonable token price from the government printer as you needed them for those of us that couldn't afford the third party subscribtion service for the mil specs.



My example with Dewalt was to show that if Cummins want to sell more engines in Dodges. . maybe offering the CD's, even at a slight loss has it's merits as a business model (customer support, another gimmic to brag about with Dodge, let the marketers have fun with it). I could be wrong in their case, but it worked for Dewalt and many other consumer items. . just like the price of CD's as you pointed out... all those rebates and sales so you can buy them for next to nothing, was to sell more CD burners. The CD's became the designated loss leader to push the biggest profit center, the CD burner.



Understand that someone is being paid at or by Cummins to author the info on the CD's and someone is being paid to make them and distribute them. So it aint as cheap as me or you burning our own CD to backup our data... . but 900 bucks for us little people, just for what we need, na. We don't want the subscription service a repair shop wants. When we call to order a part, the latest data should be at the tips of their fingers, the CD's should be our guide to help us move in the right direction.

From living in another industry with parralles to this, I see otherways than what Cummins is doing with their subscription service (CD's), which is not targeted at us little people. . with 2/3rd of the total economic buying power.



There has been many good suggestions and from reading James Ford's email, I think he sees the light.





Geez another long winded, finger flying post. . sorry.



Bob

 

[redneckdr]

old numbers

alright, alright, i didn't lie. i didn't intend to say any thing else. sorry, mr. ford/anthony, i don't buy the outdated part number argument. i get told often when i call for a JD part, that my number has been superceded by a newer part number. if the support from Cummins is as good as it should be for $875-900/year, the software should alert any parts man that the number put in is outdated, and has been superceded. i'm going to stand firm, that both JD and i are benefitted by my having the parts catalog. and yes, , i'll prolly order the catalog for my truck using the serial no and CPL. point is, WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO BUY THE D____ THING, WHEN IT WOULD BENEFIT ME AND CUMMINS. AFTER ALL, I'M RUNNING A VERY EXPENSIVE ENGINE THAT THEY MADE A SIGNIFICANT PROFIT ON. RAISE THE PRICE OF THE ENGINE WHATEVER IT COSTS FOR THE CATALOG, FOR GOODNESS SAKE!!

 

[LAnthony]

agree to disagree

redneckdr, I do understand where you are coming from. Not only do I work for Cummins, but I am a consumer. It is your opinion that Cummins should "give" you the information you want, not only free of charge, but in the format the is best suited for you. Well I would like things to be that way as well, but as it is, Cummins already offers this information for free, via the phone. If that is not acceptable to you they offer the option of purchacing a parts book. Either by serial # for about $50 or by year of truck for about $35. I guess I am having a hard time understanding why you think Cummins owes you this? The long and short of it is that I don't think that we are going to agree on this issue. I do however think that the open discusion of such things can only lead to good things. If you ever have any questions please don't be afraid to ask. I'm sure there is a reason for the way Cummins does every thing. Even if it is hard to understand at times. -Lane-