Custom ladder bars are in - pics

[JDerbedrossian]

What the heck does that mean. You've never seen my truck in person, nor do you know what I do with it.

He does know who you are and what you have done with the truck and what you use it for. Common dude just cause he hasnt seen your truck doesnt mean he knows nothing about it. Your a cool kat keep it that way. See you at the next dyno day.



Jake

 

[Nate]

I have no idea why you all think welding that is the end of the truck, blah blah blah.



What I would have done is make an L shaped bracket to go up on the side of the frame as well, for more strengh though.



Even if it does crack. . big deal! Weld it up, brace it and carry on. You guys are making it sound like the frame is a one of a kind diamond or something so precious. Sheez!

 

[JimB1]

Nice to see mastercraftman GHarman lend his expertise on the technical aspects of weld quality. Set aside issue of what for and where the weld is, GHarman "gets it" regarding the craftwork of welding.

 

[GHarman]

JimB1, Thanks. GregH

 

[BigDan]

I'm also not so sure on the front mount as well. I've see lots of stronger fab work and that frame mount could of been built alot beefier with some square tubing. Why dont you go post this on pirate4x4.com in the genral section and get some real feedback from some real fabracators.



I do like that fact that they use heims instead of taking the cheaper way out with poly bushings like GDP went. I just cant justify spending $900 on the GDP ladder bars that dont use heims but $10 poly bushings instead even though they are a nice set. I think $500 would be a much better price for the GDP bars.



Yeah I know there isnt as much shock put on these bars as lets say 4 link bars, these are mainly an addition to the leafs.



I hope more companies start to put out more competitive products to bring down the retail prices

 

[RobertP]

I'm also not so sure on the front mount as well. I've see lots of stronger fab work and that frame mount could of been built alot beefier with some square tubing. Why dont you go post this on pirate4x4.com in the genral section and get some real feedback from some real fabracators.



I do like that fact that they use heims instead of taking the cheaper way out with poly bushings like GDP went. I just cant justify spending $900 on the GDP ladder bars that dont use heims but $10 poly bushings instead even though they are a nice set. I think $500 would be a much better price for the GDP bars.



Yeah I know there isnt as much shock put on these bars as lets say 4 link bars, these are mainly an addition to the leafs.



I hope more companies start to put out more competitive products to bring down the retail prices

i agree 100%

 

[NPloysa]

I am designing 4-link for my truck and it is beefy! Unfortunately (maybe not?) I draw all my stuff by hand and can't get pictures up. I am done drawing and am fabbing up the front.



driverno8, how thick is the frame mount triangle and how wide? It looks about 4" by 3" by 3" or so?

 

[driverno8]

6" Long X 3" Tall. 1/4" thick.

 

[GHarman]

pirate4X4 an excellent resource for this subject. GregH

 

[ohnoitsyu]

I think Bob's point isn't really the weld quality. The welds are fine. It's the design of the bracket and where and how it's attached to the frame that's the concern. It's simply welded the the middle of a flat area of frame - there's no strength in that design, no matter how perfect the welding is.



However, if the truck isn't really used offroad or driven aggressively, it may never be a problem. Those bars will hopefully flex enough to absorb the energy, anyway.

 

[NPloysa]

If and when he is/gets worried about them, he could gusset them on each side with smaller triangles. There are more options but that's one.

 

[WVanHemert]

No offence meant here but you have welded that in the weakest way possible, it would have been much stronger to have welded to one side or the other of the frame tube. Using the sidewall strength of the tube rather than the center flex. Those frames aren't that thick and will flex.

The center of a tube, lengthwise is very prone to compression, extension, flexing in general and once that happens cracking is sure to follow.

No one knows the forces that will be exerted by these bars under hard conditions but my thinking is they will be pulling and pushing on that mount causing the far and near side to be lifted or tourqued.

Long term I would fix it by adding wings that weld to outside of the tubes and then weld to the suspension mount.

 

[RobertP]

the frame on these trucks are hydroformed 1/4 inch thick steel, more or less a rectangular tube. this is one of the strongest frames ever made, while the middle part of the frame is the most flex prone it is not going to flex that much, the rolled edge of the frame is only 1. 25 inches( or less) away from the welded bracket. the force that is on this bracket is an upward push on the frame itself, only under acceleration, after that there is no real pressure. i think driverno8 gets the point of what he could have done better, but he is happy with it the way it is. dont bash on his bracket and weld jobs, just say good job or looks good and move on.

 

[ohnoitsyu]

the frame on these trucks are hydroformed 1/4 inch thick steel, more or less a rectangular tube. QUOTE]



BTW, you may want to check where you get your measurements from. It's a bit less than that.

 

[Bob4x4]

WELD PROCESS

CAUTION: All welds should conform to DaimlerChrysler vehicle engineering process standard “ps 9472”.



WELDING PARAMETERS WELDING PROCESS FLUX CORED ARC GAS METAL ARC (MIG)* SHIELDED METAL ARC (STICK)

Material Thickness 3. 7 mm to 4. 2 mm 3. 7 mm to 4. 2 mm 3. 7 mm to 4. 2 mm

Electrode Type Lincoln Electrical Co. Product #: NR-211 MP (Do Not Substitute) AWS ER70S-3 (Do Not Substitute) ** AWS E 7018

Electrodes Size Inches . 045 Tubular . 035 Solid 3/32"

A little info from the fsm



Bob

 

[Bob4x4]

continuation.



Electrode Stick Out 3/8" - 1/2" 1/2" - 5/8" N/A

Polarity Electrode "-" Work Piece "+" Electrode "+" Work Piece "-" Electrode "+" Work Piece "-"

Shielding Gas Self Shielded 75% Ar 25% CO2 Self Shielded

Gas Flow Rate N/A 25 - 35 CFM N/A

Wire Feed Speed (inches per minute) 110 - 130 Vertical Down 70 - 90 Flat & Overhead 245 - 250 Vertical Down 210 - 225 Flat & Overhead N/A

Approximate Amperage

Vertical 110 - 130 175 85 (3/32" Diameter)

Flat & Overhead 70 - 90 155 90 (3/32" Diameter)

Voltage 15 - 18 19 - 20 N/A

Direction of Welding

Vertical Vertical Down Hill (only) Vertical Down Hill (only) Vertical - Up Hill (only)

Flat & Overhead Flat - Push or Drag Flat - Push or Drag Flat - Drag