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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Damn Electronics!!!!!

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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission A/C leak

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I really dont care about creature comforts anyways, if I did I would have bought a luxury car..... I bought a truck knowing it is a truck and I dont expect anything more from it, except knowing that the 12 VALVE ENGINE under the hood wont break down because of the delicate little POS VP-44 controlled by a computer. :-laf
 
Rman said:
I like electronics, perhaps the 12 yrs as a tech and all the training might sway that. It's not nearly as complicated as you all make it out to be. The systems on the diesels are very simple. I work with F16 electronics, and even to me, those systems are somewhat simple. The newer things are becoming more complex, but that lies mostly with software integration, the electronic side of things is still not that complex.



Is it the lack of experience that makes you "hate" it. Because you certainly cannot question the design, atleast from my perspective you can't. There's several factors when designing a circuit. Face it, lifespan is one of them, they aren't going to pony up the money for that because they won't get the return on it. With people buying new vehicles every few years, why should they bother?



Put in some time in the repair/rebuilding of the electronics inside of failed VP-44's, THEN get back to us on how simple and reliable they are... ;) :-laf :-laf
 
Cummins360 said:
I really dont care about creature comforts anyways, if I did I would have bought a luxury car..... I bought a truck knowing it is a truck and I dont expect anything more from it, except knowing that the 12 VALVE ENGINE under the hood wont break down because of the delicate little POS VP-44 controlled by a computer. :-laf



You had better keep your '95 until you hang up your driver's license then. Electronics is the way it will be in the future for sure. The unreliable VP-44 mess is just because the manufacturers have not got it through their heads yet that reliable electronics are not much more expensive than doing it right in the first place. Probably cheaper. The P7100 pump is probably the last none electronic controlled injection pump you will ever find on a motor vehicle.
 
i dont get why there is so much hate for the 24v engines by the 12v guys. Come on men, we all have a passion for the Cummins engine, right? Why cant you 12v guys let this die. Who give a rats *** what injection pump you have, I dont, I am glad I have a Cummins engine, PERIOD. The Electronic pump is just as reliable... IF, you take care of it. I have killed one pump, but its my own fault, low fuel pressure, lead foot and a tapped wire, I HIGHLY do not blame the pump, its my own fault. There is plus' on both sides of the fence. Get over the petty rediculas differences, get along, blow some smoke and be happy we are not driving Duracraps and Powerjokes! :-laf
 
Not petty differences or hate at all. If the VP-44 fuel system was reliable there would not be nearly so many posts about failures and fixes to prevent future failures. Nor would there be any real need to monitor fuel pressure. Nor would the "VP-44 is reliable" statements always had an IF in them. This discussion is about electronic fuel systems. The VP-44 is the poster boy for an unreliable system. You can't reason from that that all electronic controlled fuel systems are bad.



A lot of the "hate" is just harrasment for the fun of it.
 
Joe G. said:
Not petty differences or hate at all. If the VP-44 fuel system was reliable there would not be nearly so many posts about failures and fixes to prevent future failures. Nor would there be any real need to monitor fuel pressure. Nor would the "VP-44 is reliable" statements always had an IF in them. This discussion is about electronic fuel systems. The VP-44 is the poster boy for an unreliable system. You can't reason from that that all electronic controlled fuel systems are bad.



A lot of the "hate" is just harrasment for the fun of it.



YUP - what Joe said! ;) :D



On the other hand, purely mechanical parts can often be inspected for quality and apparent weakest links in design and manufacture - some even "field engineered" to improve those weaknesses.



But in the case of "magic boxes", the user has NO way to verify design, or which of the internal 1 cent Taiwan resistors is going to make instant junk out of a $1000 assembly - at the worse possible time and situation... ;) :eek:
 
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Gary,



There are known ways to make an electronic system bullet proof so a 1 cent resistor won't kill it. Triple redundancie electronic systems for example will do that. Vehicle manufactures are not ready build their systems like that. For the prices they are asking for vehicles and as cheap as electroics are to build I don't see why they are not doing that. I think the VP-44 failures are not a failure of the electronics anyway. It's the cheap junk lift pump.
 
Gary - K7GLD said:
Put in some time in the repair/rebuilding of the electronics inside of failed VP-44's, THEN get back to us on how simple and reliable they are... ;) :-laf :-laf



If bosch would let me have some "proprietary" info I think I'd take you guys up on the offer. Would you be willing to spend about 500 bucks for a reliable PSG? I could work up some magic for sure. I just need the rights and the circuit parameters to follow on. Maybe I could hack into a couple old ones and play around. I still need test parameters to check operation. I have a ton of test equipment though, maybe this could be my money maker!
 
geez settle, weve all got the 5. 9 so be happy!



24 valves are better than 12 anyways, plus the cup holders are ALOT better :-laf



my DTT is better than you ATS anyways :-laf Oo. haha just messing aroung fellas (havent driven the truck yet since its on the 'lsfarm's hoist waiting on TQ, input, smart conroller to arrive Oo.



Ian
 
OK yes that would be the best of both worlds, for me I would love having 24 valves, its just I dont want the stupid electronics that come with them... ... p-pumped 24 valve sounds like the way to go.
 
From what I've read from the few folks that have them is they aren't very streetable. Maybe for sled pulling and draggin. I really don't have much experience with it, perhaps it's just a matter of tuning with proper injectors and injector tubes.
 
Nobody has mentioned that the VP44's Fail 90% of the time because of worn internal MECHANICALS? (P0216)



The only difference is, you can get to the Shut Down solenoid on a 12V...



Merrick
 
Nobody has mentioned that the VP44's Fail 90% of the time because of worn internal MECHANICALS? (P0216)



That's a very bold claim - and one I seriously doubt - do you have a pointer or source to back it up?
 
What does the P0216 Dodge OBDII code stand for?



Maybe I made up the 90% figure, but, I'm going to say that well over half ov VP44 failures are from timing ring galling from Low Fuel pressure, which is no fault of the electronics.





That's like your p-pump failing from no oil pressure... .







Merrick
 
Having spent a good amount of time searching for information on the actual control module located on the VP44 I've found limited at best information.



I don't see the pumps on a daily basis and couldn't say whether the electronics is what cause the failure. Mine failed and still ran, it ran poorly but it worked. To me, if the electronics were "bad", it sure wouldn't be running, but I don't really know for sure. After seeing the test benches for these units, I highly doubt I'd be able to magically improve anything. I'd have to become a bosch repair facility, and dabble with the electronics on the side. Diesel injection just isn't my bag, neat though!



Having read article after article on diesel injection and the new designs and parameters, I just can't see the mechanical side of the arguement... at all. Those old pumps don't hold a candle to what the new ones can do.



I didn't know this, but the VP style pump is on all kinds of different vehicles. A little reading sure doesn't hurt every now and then huh.
 
Maybe I made up the 90% figure,



I thought that might be the case... ;)



And as far as significant and consistent internal galling of VP-44's is concerned, the only reference I have ever seen mentioned or printed by Bosch, was directly related to fuel lubricity and impurities - not low supply pressure.



I'd suspect injection pump piston/bore scoring and seizures from low fuel pressure LONG before the timing rings showed evident wear - but I'm only guessing too... :D :-laf
 
Having read article after article on diesel injection and the new designs and parameters, I just can't see the mechanical side of the argument... at all. Those old pumps don't hold a candle to what the new ones can do.



The technology of the new computer controlled stuff sure is impressive!



Imagine the instantaneous ability to adjust fuel injection timing and volume to suit rapidly changing environmental and operating conditions, from a low speed crawl lightly loaded, up to full throttle full load situations, all with smooth power and excellent economy.



A far cry from the relatively limited capabilities of the previous purely mechanical pumps, no doubt about it!



But the issue isn't the technology - it's the design and application - as well as reliability and quality of the computers we must rely upon to accomplish all that over a decent lifespan - say, similar to a VE or P pump - THAT certainly isn't happening in the percentages of units most of us would expect to see...
 
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