2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Damn Electronics!!!!!

[Joe G.]

My point exacty Gary. Eventually the manufacturers will get it right. The all mechanical injection pump will be like the spark advance lever on a car's steering wheel. A thing of the past that most drivers have never heard of. But right now it's hard to beat a P7100 pump for reliability.

 

[K5IP]

Are you having trouble with something. Perhaps someone can help if we know what's wrong.

Rog

 

[nps]

Are you having trouble with something. Perhaps someone can help if we know what's wrong.

Rog

Naw - C360 is just blowing off steam and stirring the pot. You see, he has a terminal case of valve envy - he only got 12 and really wants 24. So he figures that if he makes enough noise someone will give him their 24V motor to shut him up.

 

[RustyJC]

You see, he has a terminal case of valve envy - he only got 12 and really wants 24.

Like Stroker McGurk used to say in the Hot Rod magazine cartoons back in the 1950s - "If some's good, more's better and too much is just right. " :-laf



Rusty

 

[Cummins360]

Naw - C360 is just blowing off steam and stirring the pot. You see, he has a terminal case of valve envy - he only got 12 and really wants 24. So he figures that if he makes enough noise someone will give him their 24V motor to shut him up.

At least I dont have to worry about check engine lights, or VP-44's!!!! Hell if we got nuked I could still drive my truck around..... and you?!? Ummmmm... ... well you see the computer controlling the other computer on the injection pump..... well they got fryed. Oh wait you mean a 12 valve can still run without a computer???? Who would have gussed??? LMAO!!!!

Im just playin around, computers may offer more performance and adjustability on the fly but I still like having my non electronic engine for long term reliability and dependability.

 

[nps]

... computers may offer more performance and adjustability on the fly...

Like I posted on another thread - just run without the hood and have your girlfriend steer while you turn the smoke screw! :-laf

 

[RustyJC]

Hell if we got nuked I could still drive my truck around..... and you?!?

If Houston gets nuked, that will be the least of my worries. :-laf



Rusty

 

[Rman]

At least I dont have to worry about check engine lights, or VP-44's!!!! Hell if we got nuked I could still drive my truck around..... and you?!? Ummmmm... ... well you see the computer controlling the other computer on the injection pump..... well they got fryed. Oh wait you mean a 12 valve can still run without a computer???? Who would have gussed??? LMAO!!!!

Im just playin around, computers may offer more performance and adjustability on the fly but I still like having my non electronic engine for long term reliability and dependability.

I can't believe toting that being able to drive after a nuclear explosion is a good thing.

 

[georgej]

Well... . you could be the first to the lake and screw the limit!!

 

[Wiredawg]

Electronics is part of life today

I have a 1st, 2d and 3d Gen trucks and like all of them. The 1st Gen is fairly basic and fun to drive; the 2d Gen has the most power/tq and has had the most problems (failed VP-44, LP, xfer case, AAPS) and the 3d Gen hasn't had any problems.



I could get po'd about the problems w/ my 2d gen, but the trade off in power and performance is worth it. Plus, my BOMBing might have played a part in the some of my failures too. I know lots of 2d and 3d Gen owners who haven't had any problems with their electronics. None of their trucks are BOMBed either.



Bottom line: Electronics are here to stay and are what will carry us thru the increasing cost of fuel ahead. they will get more reliable, but we will still figure out how to screw them up.



Wiredawg

 

[Joe G.]

Another comment before this thread dies. Those of us who have mechanical vehicles will need to be expert in fixing them because the supply of mechanics who can fix all mechanical vehicles is becoming smaller and smaller all the time. If they can't connect a scan tool and have it tell them what is wrong you are out of luck. Our 12 valve trucks may be the last of the mechanically controlled engines in motor vehicles. A friend of mine is the parts manager for the local Dodge dealer. The shop could not figure out what was wrong with his '97. He told me the symptoms. It was the AFC. The guys working there are actually pretty good, but the 12 valve Cummins is the ONLY vehicle the goes in their shop without electronics controlling the engine.

 

[Rman]

Joe I'd have to agree with you there. Technology has taken the technician out of the picture. I troubleshoot electronics daily, and am a very hands on kind of troubleshooter. The software integration is what makes it complex, I like to physically watch signals and see what happens and why certain things don't happen, plugging in a reader that detects a fault is not troubleshooting. It's led us to a swap-tronics kind of repair, just keep plugging things in until it works.



I'm still searching for a good used 12v to play with, I like them too, but respect what modern technology has to offer. I'm going to keep my 2002 for a while, because I'm not going to take a bath for 36k again (ok new ones are like 50k now!)

 

[Cummins360]

Another comment before this thread dies. Those of us who have mechanical vehicles will need to be expert in fixing them because the supply of mechanics who can fix all mechanical vehicles is becoming smaller and smaller all the time. If they can't connect a scan tool and have it tell them what is wrong you are out of luck. Our 12 valve trucks may be the last of the mechanically controlled engines in motor vehicles. A friend of mine is the parts manager for the local Dodge dealer. The shop could not figure out what was wrong with his '97. He told me the symptoms. It was the AFC. The guys working there are actually pretty good, but the 12 valve Cummins is the ONLY vehicle the goes in their shop without electronics controlling the engine.

Which is EXACTALLY why I bought it... I HATE OTHER PEOPLE WORKING ON MY TRUCK!!!! I am my own repair facitity when it comes to engine work, this 12 valve is so simple I cant see why people would have a hard time working on it anyway. All you have to do is read a service manual and understand how the injection pump and governor works and thats basically that. So heres the bottom line: 12 valve trucks are reliable, dependable, and easy to service... . DONT BUY ONE IF U CANT WORK ON IT. And I had a 24 valve and sold the POS because of its VP-44 and the effing computer controlling it. Yea it had amazing amounts of torque and HP but that was at the expense of dealing with computers and when they decided to take a crap, you either had to buy a scan tool or bring it to the dealer which is not going to happen. If I cant fix it I'll buy a tool so that I can.

-Travis

 

[Cummins360]

And YES I did have a problem, the 24 valve I had, was ridden with electronic problems, the ECM, PCM, ABS computer, ect... ... Oh and that funny stupid thing they hung on the side of the engine..... I think they call it a VP-44 or something like that.

-Travis

 

[RustyJC]

And YES I did have a problem, the 24 valve I had, was ridden with electronic problems, the ECM, PCM, ABS computer, ect... ... Oh and that funny stupid thing they hung on the side of the engine..... I think they call it a VP-44 or something like that.

-Travis

Yet my 2002 (delivered on 8/15/01) has never been back to the dealer. Hmmmm... ...



Rusty

 

[Joe G.]

Travis,



Can you fix a P7100 if it quits? That takes special tools and machines to do right. They are very reliable, but not immortal.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I have a 1st, 2d and 3d Gen trucks and like all of them. The 1st Gen is fairly basic and fun to drive; the 2d Gen has the most power/tq and has had the most problems (failed VP-44, LP, xfer case, AAPS) and the 3d Gen hasn't had any problems.



I could get po'd about the problems w/ my 2d gen, but the trade off in power and performance is worth it. Plus, my BOMBing might have played a part in the some of my failures too. I know lots of 2d and 3d Gen owners who haven't had any problems with their electronics. None of their trucks are BOMBed either.



Bottom line: Electronics are here to stay and are what will carry us thru the increasing cost of fuel ahead. they will get more reliable, but we will still figure out how to screw them up.



Wiredawg

There ya have it - the most rounded and best synopsis of the differences in generations so far!

 

[Rman]

And YES I did have a problem, the 24 valve I had, was ridden with electronic problems, the ECM, PCM, ABS computer, ect... ... Oh and that funny stupid thing they hung on the side of the engine..... I think they call it a VP-44 or something like that.

-Travis

The truth comes out! We all can see your hatred and anger now, have fun with the 12v.

 

[MCummings]

And YES I did have a problem, the 24 valve I had, was ridden with electronic problems, the ECM, PCM, ABS computer, ect... ... Oh and that funny stupid thing they hung on the side of the engine..... I think they call it a VP-44 or something like that.

-Travis

Yah, Me too, but, I bet my 24V makes more power, and smokes less than your 12V.



Merrick.

 

[Cummins360]

Yes I'm shure it does but I still like not worrieing that 500 miles away from home in the boonies my truck is gonna quit because of a damn 1 cent resistor or transistor that was made in taiwan. At least my 12 valve wont suddenly die like that and chances are if it does its something simple that can be fixed on the side of the road.

-Travis