Dealer Rant

[TFucili]

It depends on what they purchased. You can spend a little to get the basics, or a lot to get much more data. The tool is the same, just buying the data. The newer Snap-On tool can even see all the other modules, and has access to diagnostic data as well.

Even if an independent can access more data, if the vehicle needs an update, or re-flash, I assume only a franchised dealer can log into the "mother ship" for that, right?

 

[Doubleclutch]

There used to be a basic go-no go rule that I followed when the Check Engine Light came on.. is it blinking or on steady. Steady was a warning, blinking was "things are about to get worse". does that still hold true?

 

[sag2]

Very true on a gas engine. Not sure I have seen a blinking on a diesel.

 

[mwilson]

Not sure on the newer Rams, big trucks in many cases have the amber "Check Engine" light and a red "Stop Engine" light in addition to the "Malfunction Indicator Light".

The red light means that you have just about 90 seconds to land it somewhere. Low coolant, low oil pressure, excessive coolant temp, failure to regen, etc. will trip the red light in an effort to avoid engine damage.

From a driver's card in a Freightliner Cascadia.......http://www.accessfreightliner.com/toolsservices/epa07/Detroit Diesel Driver Information Sheet.pdf

Curious now to see what the newest Rams have. I'll have to surf some owner's manuals.

 

[TCDiesel]

WItech and Tech-authority Account= Dealer.Snap on electronics work for everything Great at nothing..and are WaaYYYYYYY over priced for what you get. Any EVO Genesis tool at 1/2 the cost, More user friendly Plus support form OTC and others,ETC.

 

[LarryM]

These are all great posts, thought provoking and educational, at least for me. Bob 4X4 and Sag2 gave an insight into the expense and technical expertise required to be a diesel tech which not many after market shops have or are willing to spend. Cummins made the engine, but from what I gather cannot communicate to the truck and it's systems. My thoughts are that the dealership must expend whatever necessary to field a competent technician in diesel service because they sell a lot of trucks, the trucks cost orders of magnitude more than most of their auto inventory and, by the nature of the beast are more complex. Besides the fact that the truck owners are more particular about their vehicle and are generally more discerning about the service. The diesel tech in a dealership if he is good is worth his weight in gold and represents the very reputation of the dealership to this truck customer base who will get the word out, good or bad. In this light, why do most dealerships have only one diesel guy? If he gets sick or has a tragedy such as the guy in the original post or for that matter just wants to go on vacation what will the dealer do then with no other tech on staff? I know that in this day and age, they are no longer called mechanics, as that doesn't come close to what they must know, it's no longer wrench turning per se. These guys go to work with a tool box in one hand and a brief case with laptop in the other and must be smart enough to know what the computer is telling him, they deserve much more compensation. With that said, Don Fitzwater hit it when he said that savy techs are hard to come by. In my travels I have come across techs that when you looked into their eyes, nothing looked back and their work was quite amateurish. I'm sure that the guy cross threaded the cap on his toothpaste tube each day. Interesting........

 

[Bob4x4]

In my mind it still boils down to money. Most techs make the same in real dollars as twenty years ago. How do you attract new talent??

 

[LarryM]

Bob4X4, I spent too much of my life submerged, so I am naïve in some things. Correct me if I am wrong on this, I totally agree with you in your last post. Service work today is way more expensive than it was 20 years ago, yet the tech doesn't benefit from this. But, don't the dealerships push the techs to work according to some manual for labor rates? This causes the tech to work to some obscure timeline for a specific repair, and if he runs into problems or exceeds the time he loses that time, but the dealership gets the bottom line anyway. It seems to me that the dealership has the responsibility to its customers to give them the service support that all this new technology demands and should compensate their techs accordingly, both in the training required, tools and salary commensurate with their position. The dealer will benefit from a better work environment for the employee and a better customer relationship that will bring more business plus the techs will reap better pay and benefit packages as well as recurring training to keep up with the ever changing technical world. I know that this is all fantasy land, but the auto service industry is really behind in this which will not necessarily attract new talent, I understand that a lot of techs leave the dealerships for the after market for better employment packages and upward mobility. From a pure business perspective, I think that the dealerships in general can do much better.

 

[Bob4x4]

The training is available.The rest you pretty much nailed it

 

[surfbeetle]

Also, the tech may not always do what's best. Case in point, my 2014 Challenger went into the dealer for a problem with the Uconnect. I am an IT admin so I had done some research and found that the Uconnect module needed a firmware upgrade. Which I could have obtained online and done myself, but the IT guy in me decided that if something when awry, I could be stuck with broken unit not covered. So armed with this info, I went to the dealer. Rather than do a 30 minute firmware update, the dealer tech decided to replace the entire Uconnect unit. The end result was the same as the new unit came preloaded with the latest version of the firmware. But what I later found out on a Challenger forum was that the tech can bill more straight time for the replacement rather than the update. Also replacing it causes a warranty charge back to the Uconnect vendor for $700.00. You know what they say, it's often hard to get good help.

 

[RVTRKN]

I don't care what profession your in, white collar, blue collar, even loafers, the technology is changing faster then we can keep up with. I have to deal with AC units now that have electronics/software and the need for special devises to upload/download info and parameters needed to save the customer energy they expected to save after spending big bucks to get it. 8 years ago, a Doctor replaced an aging system that was ineffient, and with the need for constant repairs that I convinced to replace to save money in the long run. The installing contractor that we were associated with installed a Carrier unit with highly sofistacated electronics that I was not familiar with. After the install and factory authorized startup of the unit, the Doctor complained about the fact his electricity bill increased. I tinkered with the system and he still complained about it, so we brought back the authorized Carrier tech to check it and perform startup all over again. Again he complained, I talked to the tech over the phone and he repeated the same BS. After the labor costs and customer satisfaction we all lost money, it turned out to be a conflict in programing that I found the hard way by READING the large instruction book that took me days of reading to find the reason.

And now the gotcha moment, the so called authorized tech failed to set the program correctly by allowing the time clock to confict with continuous operation mode. FACTORY AUTHORIZED PERSONEL working on the new products doesn't mean it will be right. I lost bunches of hours working for free to try to satisfy customer that the OEM tech failed to be to perform his job properly, by not programing it properly in the first and second attempt.

 

[Newsa]

First time I went to the dealer for service, they told me their diesel tech quit. They recommended a different dealer. I get the impression they weren't giving their employees a reason to stay

 

[Bill Lins]

That's it. After reading about all this electronic malevolence, I'm keepin' my 12-valve!

 

[surfbeetle]

That's it. After reading about all this electronic malevolence, I'm keepin' my 12-valve!

And that's why I kept my 12 valve, retired it from daily duty and got a Challenger with the lifetime warranty. So far it's been pretty good, no worse than my 12 valve was when I bought it new.

 

[AlFischer]

Reading this post has been quite interesting. I am retired from 37 years with IBM. Field Service and networking specilist and then management. Same story! Only now they have outsourced much of the service and I was in the process of laying off most of my employees many with 30 years experience and not ready for retirement. My son is now doing the same thing (against my advice) and it is getting worse. He is in school some place about 2 months a year and not seeing any increases and cuts in benefits every day.

The problem is NOT computers The problem is GREED at the corporate level. Does not matter what company. The bigger the worse. I have no solution. Just observations!
It's also the US public. We want EVERYTHING cheaper and better. Just try to buy a US made TV or Stereo or Laptop. It's hitting the agriculture folks too. MEXCIAN and CHINEESE foods are cheaper. So to hell with our farmers?

 

[EGroeneveld]

Many reasons:
Shortage of skilled people willing to do the trades....shortages all over for welders, plumbers, electricians, etc...
Caused by too much push to get people to go to college for a degree in Art so they can be waiters at Applebees.

And dealerships keep trying really hard to keep salaries low so the don't help anything either....the good techs end up going on there own or to bigger dealerships or jumping into other places like Cat or John Deere stores...

 

[LarryM]

As Alficher said, "It's not the computers". True enough, the computers are really a good thing in the sense that they can make the engine run more efficiently and better given the emissions requirements and performance numbers for the engine to be competitive, and they do it instantly correcting many different parameters. The trouble is, let something go wrong, either a sensor, wiring, vehicle mechanical/electrical hardware or the computer itself and the vast majority of the customer base is helpless and dependent on the dealership for a fix. Now, the computer and software are for the most part proprietary so that even the aftermarket shops willing to spend the money for the machine and software will not get the whole package. As a result, they may not be able to help. The dealership, depending on the skill of the tech, will fix it and charge the proverbial arm and leg. The tech will get his salary but the lions share goes to the dealer. If the dealer made the tech's salary reasonable and competitive, the dealer still profits and the tech will be happy to stay and because he is skilled will bring more to that dealer. As was said before, the good ones end up at Ring Power, Cat and in some cases open their own shops, but are still at the mercy of the proprietary software/hardware issue. I guess this is corporate greed?????

 

[AlFischer]

If the dealer paig GOOD wages for GOOD work and was able to ignore the union scale it would take care of itself the dealer profits would increase primarily because they would have happy and repeat customers. Toyota ****** me off so last year when I wanted a new car I bought a VW. So far the dealer has been great. MERIT PAY is what is needed.

Also, from experience it is difficult to take a good mechanic and train him to be a computer tech. Different worlds.

 

[Doubleclutch]

If the dealer paig GOOD wages for GOOD work and was able to ignore the union scale it would take care of itself the dealer profits would increase primarily because they would have happy and repeat customers.

All that said and done... WE, as in the general public, don't want to pay for it, and the union keeps the wages up, as you suggest, so isn't the bad guy here. From my experiences, MERIT PAY is another word for "Bucks for Buddies". Not always, but discouragingly often. Complex issue that boils down to "how much is the public willing to pay for the complexities required by outside agencies?" Just my thoughts. Greg