Destroyed a Turbo - Questions for the experts

[electraglide101]

Good morning all. Hope everyone had a great weekend. I spent mine taking my 2004. 5 4x4 apart to see why it was blowing billowing clouds of smoke and losing oil level fast (like 2 quarts in 5 minutes).



I found that the turbo had totally come apart. The intake vacumn would actual suck the oil into the intake and the engine would race out of control when rev'd up to to about 2000 rpm. The exhaust side is managled and the shaft broke, so it looks totaled. The entire intake piping and intercooler is contaminated with oil.



I was in a hurry earlier this spring leaving on a 3 month assignment and I installed a Fram air filter. I found that the air filter was managled and sucked up into the inlet. The filter dp gauge showed zero, so there is no telling how long it ran like this before it cratered. I only drove the truck about 2500 miles after installing this filter. You can bet I'll be calling Fram about this.



About 1500 miles of the 2500 was pulling a 14K 5th wheel.



My truck is pretty much a daily driver with occasional 8K to 14K pulling. If this drought lasts much longer here in Texas, I won't be bothered with hauling cows to the auction anymore.....



After doing a lot of searching this weekend, I was able to finally get the turbo out. There is a lot of great info here, but I do have some questions for the gurus:



1. Does anyone have the Cummins PN's for the exhaust manifold gaskets and studs? Every Cummins dealer I go to looks at me like a cow looking at a new gate when I ask them for a DC part and has to have the Cummins PN.

2. I was going to call Garrett, HTT, and some rebuilders I found on the internet. I am looking for a low cost replacement. I've been happy with the performance of the stock turbo, but bigger is always better. Can anyone recommend a good turbo rebuilder that probably has one in stock?

3. Does anyone have a stock turbo laying around they want to get rid of?

4. Ok, its a long shot - There is a guy here locally that just upgraded his 2010 with a bigger turbo. Will a 2010 6. 7L turbo fit my 04,5 5. 9L. I really hate to ask this stupid question.



Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[FourBarR]

There is something else to be concerned about. There are reports on this site of fram filters coming apart and pieces clogging the piston cooling jets if that happens you will loose a piston and score the cylinder wall. Hope this is not the case with you.

 

[electraglide101]

Oh that is lovely. The filter appears to be in one piece, just distorted and sucked up into the intake. Shame on me for being in a hurry to service my truck before a big trip.



I had been running stock filters and then a 100K AMSOil filter that I was happy with. I noticed that my DP was dropping much after cleaning it, so I grabbed a Fram at the auto parts store to run until I could get another AMSOil one.



I have a feeling that this filter did this quickly after installation. I'll be getting an oil sample kit as soon as I can get over to the big city and I'll bet my silica is through the roof.

 

[GCroyle]

"Every Cummins dealer I go to looks at me like a cow looking at a new gate when I ask them for a DC part and has to have the Cummins PN. "



I'm sorry, I can't help, I was just got a kick out of the way you said that cow and the gate reference.



Good luck.

 

[BGlidewell]

I read something in the TDR magazine about cummins or dodge going after fram for their deficient oil filters. IIRC there was some compensation involved.

 

[mwilson]

Number 1,

Don't worry about the piston cooling nozzles, that would be a result of oil filter failure, not air filter failure.



Number 2,

Please provide the Engine Serial Number (Tag is on the valve cover, LH side, 8 digit number, no letters) and I will give you the Cummins Part Numbers for the gasket and studs, etc.



Number 3,

You must have the charge air cooler cleaned out by a radiator shop or you risk a runaway condition when you put it all back together due to the engine running on all that oil that is laying in there right now.



You have already experienced 2000 rpms from excess oil with an inactive turbo and loss of system integrity, just imagine a tight system, nice new turbo and some boost to go with it. Watch it take off then.....



Number 4,turbo experts please step up here, but if the wastegate stuck I think enough draw could have been created to suck any brand of filter up the pipe.

Not defending Fram, I'm just saying... .



Number 5,

Are you sure that the filter didn't get wet for some reason??? I have seen great big air filters collapse when they get soaked from rain or snow.

Again, I'm just saying...



Mike.

 

[Djmack]

my 04. 5 engine number is 57134713. i wouldnt doubt if its a generic number sole to that year engine.

 

[mwilson]

my 04. 5 engine number is 57134713. i wouldnt doubt if its a generic number sole to that year engine.

Thanks for providing your ESN. I will use it if he can't find his.



Just prefer to use the actual ESN if I can, then I know I am providing accurate information on here.

 

[HBarlow]

Fram filters strike again!

I learned to never use a Fram oil filter soon after buying my first Dodge-Cummins and joining TDR. Fortunately I learned by taking advice not from trial and error.

 

[electraglide101]

My esn is 57144203

The filter was dry. The filterminder showed no dp.


Thanks for the help.

 

[electraglide101]

Please include the turbo to exh manifold gasket too. Think I sourced a low mileage 06 turbo nearby.

 

[jhenderson]

What does a run of bad oil filters 6 or 8 years ago have to do with a lunched turbo today?

 

[electraglide101]

I just saved some pics off of my phone. Like I said, the filter had "sucked up" into the inlet pipe going to the turbo. This blocked the filter-minder, so I suspect it happened soon after I installed it.



One thing I noticed is that the Fram Filter is about half of the thickness of the other filter I had on hand. I have contacted Fram regarding this, and probably won't say much more about it until I find out where this is going with them.



I've used Fram filters in all my vehicles over the years except this one. My truck has always had fleetguard/OEM filters, except for the one 100K AMSOil air filter I ran for about 100K.

 

[AH64ID]

Either the filter failed or it was improperly installed. I would contact Fram and tell them their filter failed and destroyed your turbo and see what they say.



As far as a replacement a used HE351 will be the cheapest at 300-500, but they are used. I have seen reman's for $800.



HTT, Garrett, etc will all run you $1700-2200. I personally vote for the Garrett if you plan to go with an upgrade.

Number 4,turbo experts please step up here, but if the wastegate stuck I think enough draw could have been created to suck any brand of filter up the pipe.

Not defending Fram, I'm just saying... .

I highly doubt this is the case. There just isn't enough fuel in the stock tune to make enough boost to pull a filter up if its installed properly. Tuners like the Smarty Jr will disable the OEM wastegate, and this isn't a problem and I have seen 37 psi of boost with my stocker and some have seen over 40. There are also plenty of people running aftermarket turbos on a stock intake with well over 40 psi.

 

[mwilson]

Manifold bolts and gaskets... .



#1 3944593 Screw, Flange Head Qty 7

#2 3944655 Screw, Flange Head Qty 5

#3 3945252 Spacer, Mounting Qty 12

#4 3955339 Gasket, Manifold Qty 6

#6 3990120 Lockplate Qty 2

 

[mwilson]

Turbo Mounting Accessories...



#1 4089797RX Turbo, ReCon Qty 1

#2 3928624 O-Rings, Feed Qty 2

#3 3949499 Gasket, Oil Drain Qty 1

#4 3949530 Gasket, Turbo Mounting Qty 1

#5 3971421 Turbo Mtg Stud Qty 4

#6 3818824 Turbo Mtg Nut Qty 4

 

[rscurtis]

AFAIK, you shouldn't have to change the bolts. If you're going to keep the truck, I would highly recommend BD's "Killer B" turbo and manifold. It is a direct bolt-on, and does not require the adapter that the "Super B" required on my signature truck. It is sized for the stock fueling on the 325 engine. If you don't want to spend the $, a used HE351 would be the best option, but they're rare on ebay. The turbo used on the 6. 7, while readily available, will require you to re-invent the wheel in order to use it. I wouldn't move down to a 341 if you had that thought.

 

[mwilson]

Either the filter failed or it was improperly installed. I would contact Fram and tell them their filter failed and destroyed your turbo and see what they say.







I highly doubt this is the case. There just isn't enough fuel in the stock tune to make enough boost to pull a filter up if its installed properly. Tuners like the Smarty Jr will disable the OEM wastegate, and this isn't a problem and I have seen 37 psi of boost with my stocker and some have seen over 40. There are also plenty of people running aftermarket turbos on a stock intake with well over 40 psi.

You can do with this what you want, but we sell a boatload of Fram Filters at work in addition to Fleetguard, Detroit Diesel, Davco, Alliance, etc.

The Frams rarely give trouble, equal to the other above mentioned brands.

I run Fleetguard on my stuff, I like them better, that is my personal preference.



If the Frams gave my customers any trouble believe me I would hear about it.

 

[mwilson]

ElectraGlide,

I gotta' ask...



Did you put the filter in with the pleats facing up or facing down????



You keep saying it blocked the filter minder, that would indicate that you had it upside down or it would have had to suck the pleats up through the wire mesh screen.



Correct me if I am wrong.



Mike.

 

[AH64ID]

You can do with this what you want, but we sell a boatload of Fram Filters at work in addition to Fleetguard, Detroit Diesel, Davco, Alliance, etc.

The Frams rarely give trouble, equal to the other above mentioned brands.

I run Fleetguard on my stuff, I like them better, that is my personal preference.



If the Frams gave my customers any trouble believe me I would hear about it.

My personal preference also keeps me with higher dollar filters, but honestly straight up failures are rare, at least a lot more rare than installation error. (I am not insinuating, just making an observation). I did recently read where Amsoil bought a turbo after a air filer failure.