Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Diesel fuel additive at the pump. The real story

[HEMI®Dart]

You totally disagree with what? Were talking about where and when the diesel fuel additives are installed in the fuel, not what YOU as a consumer put in after you buy the fuel. Re-read the first post.

I took it as we don't need to use additives since they are already in it.

 

[SnoKing]

I took it as we don't need to use additives since they are already in it.

Or are they? SNOKING

 

[Hitec.Redneck]

I can confirm that gasoline is blended with additives at the rack when the truck is being loaded. Ethanol is not allow in pipelines and its added when the truck is being loaded. It adds almost 10% more volume when it mixes with the gasoline. The gas that comes from our company's rack goes to several different stations and they add their own additives if any. If its going to a company station its all mixed as its going into the trucks at the rack. As far as Diesel, I don't know when the additives are added, but I will ask around and see what I can find out.

 

[Tractorat]

Ethanol that is supposed to be only 10% has been seen in the Seattle area as being as much as 25% in many stations. The person that I know personally who did testing told me that chevron tended to be the most consistent in getting at least close to 10%



So, I would imagine that any additives put into diesel would have the same issues.

 

[hpyman123]

NAPA 30w oil

I have for years added a quart of NAPA 30W oil to the tank when I fill it. Truck has always gotten 17-19 in town and 21-23 on the road when I'm not towing anything. Never had any issues with adding it.

 

[krtcummins]

Final answer

Okay. I just got off the phone with my informant. I will try to explain what he said, as we were on the phone for 30 minutes with this guy explaining so much stuff, that my head is swimming. Here we go.



He transfers fuel out of the Colton, California refinery, tank, or what ever the hell ya call it. He said they use ONE pipe to load all of the fuels into the trucks. He said they don't pump "Aviation" fuel at his facility.



He said there are two ways to do it now. If you have just pumped diesel fuel and the other guy wants to pump Jet A, the driver runs what they call a "PIG" through the pipe. He described this PIG as a rubber/foam type thing. He said it cleans all of the previous fuel out of the line.



Or you can run the new fuel product through the pipe to flush out the previous product until the previous product is cleaned out. How do you tell when the previous product is flushed out, you take samples. What do they do with the mixed product called "Trans-fuel" that comes out of the pipe while they are flushing, they refine it and make "Marine diesel" fuel out of it with red dye.



He told me a lot of other stuff, but quite frankly I have "CRS" and can't remember it all. But this should give you all an idea of how they do it at the Colton, California place. Now they might do it differently some place else, but that is how it's done there.



And now you have "The rest of the story!"Oo.

 

[krtcummins]

May I respectfully suggest you investigate the additives in 2-smoke oil? Once you learn that, you may not want to put 2-smoke oil in your fuel; more than a few of those additives are not compatible with diesel fuel injection systems.



Contact a few diesel injection service businesses in your area. If they've seen few pump failures due to inadequate lubricity, you probably don't need any additive. If they are seeing failures left and right, then there is a problem.



I would expect that, by now, retail fuel everywhere in the UASR has adequate lubricity.

Please inform me what these additives are. I did a study on two stroke oil vs regular engine oil for use in my diesel fuel several years ago. The one thing that was missing from the two stroke oil that made it better to use in diesel fuel was ASH. The ASH is hard on the pistons and bores in a diesel injection pump.

 

[krtcummins]

Over 5 years of MPG comparison, hand calculated I get a 1. 5-2. 0 MPG increase using Shell diesel over Sunoco.

YOU my friend, have WAY too much time on your hands!:-laf



Bottom line, I shop price. And if the cheapest place in town is less than . 20 per gallon less than Chevron, I will buy Chevron. Why you ask? Because I have a Chevron card and refuse to sit in long lines to save a couple of bucks. Even though I am retired, I have better things to do than drive around looking to save a couple of bucks. And really, that's about all you are saving.

 

[BIGNASTY]

YOU my friend, have WAY too much time on your hands!:-laf



Bottom line, I shop price. And if the cheapest place in town is less than . 20 per gallon less than Chevron, I will buy Chevron. Why you ask? Because I have a Chevron card and refuse to sit in long lines to save a couple of bucks. Even though I am retired, I have better things to do than drive around looking to save a couple of bucks. And really, that's about all you are saving.

That's right BUY THAT CHEVRON Diesel ( I still have stock in Chevron) it's the best diesel on the market. I too dont care about the price of Chevron diesel ( because I have a I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER load of fuel card's when I worked there) and will continue to use Chevron diesel and gas (until my cards are gone) Its Chevron in Yucca Valley I dont want to burst your bubble its community rack diesel. I used to haul it to you :-laf:-laf Its picked up at the tank farm on I 10 and Riverside Ave. Bloomington second rack on the left or if the load has gas and diesel on the same truck it's from the rack on Santa Ana and Riverside ave Bloomington. :-laf What store do you shop the one on 29 palms hwy and I think the cross is Avalon or the one in Morongo Valley there is another one or two but to many barley pops has blurred my mind such as it is :-laf

 

[krtcummins]

I shop both, depending on where I am when I need fuel. Both the Chevron and the Shell directly across the street in Yucca are owned by G&M. I live in Pioneertown, so Yucca is closest.



Yes, I know Chevron comes out of the community rack. I get a kick out of the guy who swears he gets better mileage out of Shell, vs Sunoco. I'm sure they both come out of a common rack like they all do.



Now when it comes to gas for my Harley, I still buy Chevron. Their additive package is better than Thrifty or ARCO, Etc. My Harley bagger will ping on cheap gas in the summer heat. That could be because I built the motor and it runs soooo nice.



Where are you in Montana? My son was stationed in Great falls for five years. Way too cold there in the winter for me. I'm a So Cal boy. Born and raised. Never left. I grew up in the East L. A. area before you needed to carry a shotgun with you!



My wife and I left Great Falls in December, 2007, right smack in the middle of a snow storm. I had to use 4X4 from Great Falls to Butte. No thanks! I could only go about 30 MPH. It was a white out. Amazing. By the time we hit Butte I was saying how much I wanted to get back home!

 

[The patriot]

Some times I wonder if the better mpg's people are getting are due to the settings on the auto shutoffs, angle the truck is on, etc etc.

Even if another nozzle is running it can effect the amount that you shut off at.

You cant get a true/accurate MPG reading with one or two fillups. It needs to be averaged over a prolong time. The longer the better.



I know if I try I can squeeze sometimes another 4-5 gals in my tank if I get her on the angle she likes. :-laf

 

[BIGNASTY]

I live in a little town Seeley Lake North East of Missoula about 50 road miles. I have always used Chevron just to help out the company so to speak. But when I had to buy it I went for Mobil ( gas) because there is no diff in diesel. I had a VW 67 I pumped up the motor to smoke some of the kids that had rice rockets it would not run on anything ARCO but would do just fine on any thing else. But of course it always helped if I threw in a oz. or two of I think its spelled Twallamine spell check wont even look at it . But it was the booster that is used to up the octane in gas It ran JUST FINE ON THAT :-laf My Dad was stationed at Los Alomitos NAS in 61 I went into Air Farce and when discharged I Hated Orange County Im sure you can figure out why. I bought a Big truck and started driving married the wife she wanted Calif I hated Cal but made VERY good money for a truck driver so we stayed untill retirement in Oct. of last year. I wouldnt go back to live if the paid me to MT is so peacefull and the people are just nice to talk to in Cal you just never knew about anyone.

 

[krtcummins]

Yea that is why I live in Pioneertown. 250 full time folks, 4500 feet, snow in the winter, just a little and I can go to the Palm Springs area to shop if I need to. Although once I retired it's hard to get me off the hill so to speak. If I can't find it in Yucca, I will order and UPS it.



Mostly I go down to the PS area for doctor appointments and such. I would not live in the OC or the LA areas for anything!!! To drive down there epitomizes the old saying, "Rat race!" They kill a bunch down there every day. Shootings, stabbings, Etc. I was watching the news this afternoon. Three guys tried to rob a jewelry store in OC. The owner shot and killed two, one is on the run. It never ends!

 

[BIGNASTY]

same here it's a DIFFERENT world was in the Market looking for some ice cream and some kid said something to an older couple in the store. I didnt really hear what they said but they asked me if I had a problem. I said no but you two A holes are about to have a BIG problem out of nowhere their mom came and snatched them up and was beating their butt as they were going out to the car. In Calif that mom would be behind bars. And the BIGGEST surprise of all is no graffiti some kids tagged the steel bridge at grad. they got caught and the Parents had to remove the graffiti not the kids. Ill bet that some hide's got tanned at home.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

So the 3 blends of BP Diesel are probably blended with additives at the rack when the truck is being loaded?



BP Diesel, Reliable Diesel, Clean Diesel | My BP Station



Premier Diesel, BP Diesel, Performance Diesel | My BP Station



Diesel Supreme, BP Diesel, Performance Diesel | My BP Station

 

[macdaddy]

How come no one talked about EPA, and CARB Cetane index?



I got allot of chuckles reading all this.



Making Diesel Fuel for a living (not saying which So Ca refinery im at) has it's advantages. I will say this though.....



*Additives for any 3rd gen trucks or newer running CARB ULSD only increases operating costs, and is not necessary. Do NOT run Mobil in so cal as they are blending their diesel with ethanol, which further lowers the lubricity of ULSD. Jury's out on this one as this is normally for marine blends only.



*Additives for 1st Gen trucks without newer inj pumps should be used if running ULSD.



*Additives for 2nd gen trucks with B9 (12V) engines should look into using some sort of additive. Not sure when they came with the newer sealing surfaces on their fuel systems to accommodate the old sulfur spec (500 ppm).



*Additives for ISB 24V motors?, you make the call. ULSD (15ppm) sulfur was being fazed in as far back as early as 05. If there are no leaks my now on these trucks your probably good to go. I have two co workers one has a 96 B9, the other 00 24V neither use any additives of any kind and have had no problems.



By the way all of you 2nd Gen 24V guys, try some CARB in you truck. You will be amazed at the difference at how smooth they idle. (51 Cetane index) at the pump. EPA (45 Cetane index) if your lucky. I travel between So Cal and Wa St regularly, HUGE diff when I had the 99. EPA in Oregon, and Washington.



As far as brand loyality. If your buying Arco or Chevron diesel thats where it came from. Other brands such as Pilot,Walmart,Costco or Thrifty's?. They are bought on spot market basis from one of the area refiners. And with the exception of Mobil (ethanol) meet the same CARB spec.



Mac

 

[HBarlow]

mac,

Fuel additives is the oldest argument in dieseldom and will probably continue as long as private citizens are "allowed" by dictators to own and drive them.

Most of the devotees to the fuel additive religion already have selected their own "facts" and don't want to read or hear any additional information.

We have to ignore it and move on.

 

[macdaddy]

Oh hey harv.....



Your right.



Mac

 

[Regcabguy]

Mac,



When we in southern Utah last May and before,it seemed that the fuel there would foam up at the filler neck. I also noticed my overhead reading increase. Our Ca fuel never foams. Any thoughts on that? Are they burning a different blend or am I hallucinating?

 

[macdaddy]

Mac,



When we in southern Utah last May and before,it seemed that the fuel there would foam up at the filler neck. I also noticed my overhead reading increase. Our Ca fuel never foams. Any thoughts on that? Are they burning a different blend or am I hallucinating?

Ah!!!!!



No your not hallucinating. Arizona,New Mexico,and Utah all are EPA. However slight the EPA's emulsion properties are known for slightly higher than CARB.



I could argue if it could ever be noticed at all, as both grades are very similar (EPA&CARB). Their only real difference is the aromatics content of the CARB, which is Benzene, this pisses the EPA off and wants it (CARB) spec to become a nationwide spec.



Right now the only states that require CARB spec diesel are Ca, Mass, Maine, and New Jersey, at last check. This is the reason for the jump in price the minute you cross into the liberal nerve center of america (Ca). #@$%!



If the EPA has their way and becomes nationwide you will all see an increase in the price of diesel. This is due to the higher pressures and energy required to the units in the refinery to make it, which include the "Hydrocracker" which is what I am usually operating, as well as our "Mid Barrel Hydrotreater" in the plant.



Here's the funny part. Most if not all are voting measures that you and I vote on. Law makers insert these measures into the ballots disguised as clean air solutions without ever telling you that you the voter will be paying for it. The Dems are always the ones behind it. Just like all other climate laws like "Cap and Trade".



Mac