Dieselgate lands on FCA and Cummins?

[promisedland]

Yes they did.... it's too bad they caught.........as I sit here filling out the paperwork for them to buy back our Jetta. Great little car that gets incredible mileage and actually built quite well......actually going miss it ..........and go back to a gasoline powered car that gets half the mileage.......

Sam

I want to buy an older VW TDI for a daily runner; = Did you have a choice ? [buy back]

 

[promisedland]

If you think that Fiat is not waiting in Italy to put their own 6.7 liter I-6 into the RAM, you should go on Fiat's website and read about that engine. I think they are just waiting and looking for an excuse to do just that but I also think that the marketing folks are shuddering to think that buyers in the USA will not accept anything but Cummins. I know if I were to consider a new RAM without a Cummins and some other brand with a Cummins, duh, I would go with Cummins in whatever body/name!!
gtwitch in wyoming

Do you have a link that we could check out??

I saw my 1st Nissan XD/Cummins btw....

 

[KCJackson1]

If you think that Fiat is not waiting in Italy to put their own 6.7 liter I-6 into the RAM, you should go on Fiat's website and read about that engine. I think they are just waiting and looking for an excuse to do just that but I also think that the marketing folks are shuddering to think that buyers in the USA will not accept anything but Cummins. I know if I were to consider a new RAM without a Cummins and some other brand with a Cummins, duh, I would go with Cummins in whatever body/name!!
gtwitch in wyoming

While FCA US (aka Chrysler) would never want to give up the Cummins B, they have a marketing problem that could force their hand.

Diesel engine option price for 2017:
Ford F-Series Super Duty: $8595
Chevy/GMC Silverado/Sierra HD: $8995
Ram 2500/3500: $9100

Cummins is the most expensive, but the bigger issue is this... Ford and GM give you the max hp/torque rating across the board (3/4 and 1 ton), with no extra charge for the transmission that can handle it. You pay nothing for the Ford 6R140 or the Allison 1000. Ram is a double whammy in that to get the top rating, you have to first pay for the (slightly) more expensive 3500, *and* you're charged the extra $2695 for the Aisin AS69RC.

So, Ram is charging $11,795 for 3rd place in torque, where GM charges $2800 less, and Ford $3200 less. The Powerstroke and the 6R140 are 100% Ford, and GM is the majority owner of DMAX Ltd, - so FCA NV may be thinking the Fiat/IVECO engine may be cheaper to price against the competition's in-house offerings. FCA NV may feel an in-house engine can be priced more competitively, but they'd still have to get a new transmission... either a 69RFE, or something that can be acquired where no extra charge needs to be passed on to the consumer.

So if you want the Cummins to stay beyond the current contract, tell FCA - both US and NV - you don't mind paying (notably) more for it. I won't be in the market for a new rig until the redesign (moved to a new place this year and have to pay those expenses off first), but if I had to buy a new truck in the next 12 months, cost effectiveness isn't quite with Ram right now - for me (your mileage may vary, of course).

 

[jhenderson]

I agree. And nobody will be able to ask me for a jump when their battery dies. However, i always make sure my truck is off if I jump another vehicle. I've heard stories of people blowing modules jumping other cars with the engine runnning. A friend who runs a small local company of Ram 4500 tow trucks advised me about this.

I never used to worry but when I bought my 15 I also bought a 600 amp jump box. Below 0 F and woods equipment can be aggravating.Can't be too careful.

 

[Newsa]

While FCA US (aka Chrysler) would never want to give up the Cummins B, they have a marketing problem that could force their hand.

Diesel engine option price for 2017:
Ford F-Series Super Duty: $8595
Chevy/GMC Silverado/Sierra HD: $8995
Ram 2500/3500: $9100

Cummins is the most expensive, but the bigger issue is this... Ford and GM give you the max hp/torque rating across the board (3/4 and 1 ton), with no extra charge for the transmission that can handle it. You pay nothing for the Ford 6R140 or the Allison 1000. Ram is a double whammy in that to get the top rating, you have to first pay for the (slightly) more expensive 3500, *and* you're charged the extra $2695 for the Aisin AS69RC.

So, Ram is charging $11,795 for 3rd place in torque, where GM charges $2800 less, and Ford $3200 less. The Powerstroke and the 6R140 are 100% Ford, and GM is the majority owner of DMAX Ltd, - so FCA NV may be thinking the Fiat/IVECO engine may be cheaper to price against the competition's in-house offerings. FCA NV may feel an in-house engine can be priced more competitively, but they'd still have to get a new transmission... either a 69RFE, or something that can be acquired where no extra charge needs to be passed on to the consumer.

So if you want the Cummins to stay beyond the current contract, tell FCA - both US and NV - you don't mind paying (notably) more for it. I won't be in the market for a new rig until the redesign (moved to a new place this year and have to pay those expenses off first), but if I had to buy a new truck in the next 12 months, cost effectiveness isn't quite with Ram right now - for me (your mileage may vary, of course).

Yep. I said the Cummins/Aisin combo was overpriced 3 years ago and made some enemies in the process.

 

[TCDiesel]

The window #s mean nothing, You still can buy The Cummins Aisin for same $. The New L5P needs to be proven for the #s to even be considered, O by the Way All Me personal Trucks are Ram Diesels, My pulling Trucks are D-Max I have 1 2500HP & 1700HP and as I type this we are building a New 3000HP+ motor V8 Diesel. Look to change the beatings Schieds and Hasiley's (Cummins) power plants have been handing us for years.

Fords new stuff is appealing, but the problem is the Blue Oval. and NO one builds Ford power plants in the professional world for a reason.

On Edit . The L5P Duramax is 100% GM own designed and produced.

 

[Ram4Sam]

I want to buy an older VW TDI for a daily runner; = Did you have a choice ? [buy back]

Yes, I could keep it, take the settlement dollars and live with the fix they come up with, which may reduce mileage and performance, which is unknown at this time. Or I can take the money and run......

Sam

 

[KCJackson1]

The window #s mean nothing, You still can buy The Cummins Aisin for same $.

And you can get Fords and GMs for just as much less, maintaining the price difference. I'm friends with the owners of a large nationally-known Ford dealership (the wife and I graduated high school together), and I know I can get lots of $$ off there that other customers may not. Next rig won't be a dually, and on their SRW, Ford not only offers 4 axle ratios but electronic rear lockers on all four... Ram is just the 3.42 limited-slip. Ford still has manual front hubs on XL and XLT. I compared how I'd equip a 2017 Ram 3500 Crew shortbox and an F-350 Crew shortbox, and came up with 20 advantages for the Ford to just 4 for the Ram. I've had Cummins Rams for over 20 years now, and would love to stay with them, but the 2019/2020 body (whenever they release it) has to really show me something - Cummins alone may not be enough.

Going with the Fiat-owned VM 3.0 in the 1500 over the Cummins ISV5.0 was the right choice... the V8 would have never gotten the desired fuel economy. Fiat is likely thinking they can make lightning strike twice if the larger engine can do the job of the B6.7. We obviously have no idea if that will happen. But I have to make the right buying/driving decision for my needs and wallet.

Not saying you're wrong... your points are valid. But everybody has to do what's best for themselves, and Ram can't just play catch-up or have a few dealers offer deep cuts in exchange for the sales volume.

 

[Wayne M.]

As a commercial rig, the CTD CnC as it is presently, is a killer combination. Seeing all the vocational class 4/5 new units out there like flatbeds and landscape rigs and hotshots, that always were defacto Ford says something. I believe Ram has market share despite Fords infiltration in the rental and municipal and specialty markets.
The reason is since now the robustness of the cab and chassis is on par, this allows the superior power train to really shine.
I started a thread here years ago about seeing 4gen work trucks popping up, but nowadays it would need to be a blog. It's common sight now.

 

[Newsa]

The window #s mean nothing, /QUOTE]


Except sticker numbers can drive half of your customers away before the price discussion begins. And many are not tuned in to the dealers who give the best deals to increase volume.


And there will be people that read gearhead articles like this : http://gearheads.org/king-diesel-cummins-duramax-or-power-stroke/#navigation

My personal preference is Cummins is best... followed closely by Duramax. Leaving Ford last. The biggest reason I picked the Ram (because the GM truck is much better on fit and finish) is the G56 transmission.

 

[Minnow101]

If they were to replace Cummins and the Aisin transmission, that would be the death knell for Ram. Let's face it, not many in this truck segment are buying the Ram because of the way the truck looks or the appeal of the interior. What sells these HD trucks is the stellar reputation of the Engine and transmission. You remove those and you've got little left to brag on.

 

[Wayne M.]

IMHO, the current Ram is the best looking of all the full size trucks out there. GM is getting close with some trims looking retro. I haven't sit in or drove any so I won't comment on interior other than hearing the new canyon/Colorado have real build issues.

 

[Newsa]

Questions:

1) Anyone heard any dealerships or customers have been given official notice of this recall?

2) Anyone know which 8 states (other than California) they are starting in?

3) Will the clock start all over on the federal emissions warranty for replaced parts?
Or is the emissions warranty still effective from original truck purchase date?

4) Will court proceedings delay this fix? Are the court proceedings finished?

I was hoping to see another article on this with more information. Have seen nothing yet.

 

[EDankievitch]

All my sources have turned up nothing other than the article shown at the start of this thread. I guess time will tell. My plan is to run my truck until I can't. Then roll the dice with what ever the market has to offer. If the Cummins engine is not in the RAM I will not buy another.