Dieselgate lands on FCA and Cummins?

[RustyJC]

Some interesting spy photos of what's believed to be the next gen Ram.

http://www.trucktrend.com/future-tr...am-2500-3500-heavy-duty-with-updated-cummins/

To add a little more fuel to the fire, this is supposed to be the new 1500:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/auto...-at-dealer-meeting/ar-AAj9LnG?ocid=spartanntp

Rusty

 

[gtwitch]

If you think that Fiat is not waiting in Italy to put their own 6.7 liter I-6 into the RAM, you should go on Fiat's website and read about that engine. I think they are just waiting and looking for an excuse to do just that but I also think that the marketing folks are shuddering to think that buyers in the USA will not accept anything but Cummins. I know if I were to consider a new RAM without a Cummins and some other brand with a Cummins, duh, I would go with Cummins in whatever body/name!!
gtwitch in wyoming

 

[RustyJC]

If you think that Fiat is not waiting in Italy to put their own 6.7 liter I-6 into the RAM, you should go on Fiat's website and read about that engine. I think they are just waiting and looking for an excuse to do just that but I also think that the marketing folks are shuddering to think that buyers in the USA will not accept anything but Cummins. I know if I were to consider a new RAM without a Cummins and some other brand with a Cummins, duh, I would go with Cummins in whatever body/name!!
gtwitch in wyoming

And I believe the Ram brand management is fully aware of that and will push back against any FCA effort to get rid of the Cummins as hard as they can. You don't mess with the goose that's laying the golden eggs, and FCA's profitability right now is coming from 2 brands - Jeep and Ram.

Rusty

 

[Newsa]

I will wait for the NON-EGR engine, The Rumor Here In Fridley MN, The New NON-EGR motor would require Better oil filtration and Cut the service to 8-10K miles, Some think that keeping the EGR is essential for customers that want the 15K service, I would prefer to pay more for the NON-EGR engine and service more just not to look at that pesky device bolted to My exhaust and Intake. The NON-EGR engine treat the NOx in the cylinder, the process soot's up the oil ,so the need to filter better and change lube more often.

The engine still would Have SCR & DEF exhaust.

NOx is created by high pressure combustion. EGR could be in cylinder. I don't understand how they can treat NOx in cylinder...... They would need to reduce pressure.

 

[Wayne M.]

If you think that Fiat is not waiting in Italy to put their own 6.7 liter I-6 into the RAM, you should go on Fiat's website and read about that engine. I think they are just waiting and looking for an excuse to do just that but I also think that the marketing folks are shuddering to think that buyers in the USA will not accept anything but Cummins. I know if I were to consider a new RAM without a Cummins and some other brand with a Cummins, duh, I would go with Cummins in whatever body/name!!
gtwitch in wyoming

Ive been hawking this since Forever. I see what the parent has done with other established brands like Case/New Holland. If not for Case in Tenneco times, there wouldn't be a buzzing B anyway.

 

[Newsa]

Newsa you are correct the case is before the court in eastern Mich.EPA/CARB want all 2013-2015 RAM 2500/3500 SCR systems replaced.FCA and Cummins are in court to decide what is the best way to handle this. It seems that Cummins is OK with paying FCA the 40 million in labor and parts for the trucks it has already repaired. But also in the court doc's I read it seems that FCA want's a 3 party vendor for help in the replacement SCR tank,they both believe that there are not enough SCR in the system to repair all by spring not sure about the nozzle assembly.A emission system software up date as well will be included as part of the fix,Cummins states negiable loss of fuel mileage will occur.Cummins what all trucks completed by the spring of 2018.Not sure when they will reappear in court,it seems as though both sides what this fix fast.Opening statement by attorny for Cummin's stated it's reputation is on the line here.

Thanks for that info. The article says they will.start in 8 states (and start with 2500's). So it will likely take a year and a half to repair all the trucks

 

[dfb]

I would not count on them EVER repairing them... Look at the VW mess and the Airbag mess for 10 years now...Someone just died from another bag killer...Thanks Government for taking care of us.. Thanks companies for your great repairs.....

 

[TCDiesel]

NOx is created by high pressure combustion. EGR could be in cylinder. I don't understand how they can treat NOx in cylinder...... They would need to reduce pressure.

Lower the flame temp, You still will need DEF for the leftover NOx

 

[KCJackson1]

I would not count on them EVER repairing them... Look at the VW mess and the Airbag mess for 10 years now...Someone just died from another bag killer...Thanks Government for taking care of us.. Thanks companies for your great repairs.....

VW still has not developed a fix. What is likely to happen is, the cars that owners want to keep pending a repair will see greatly diminished power and fuel economy.

As for the Takata airbag mess, that's a two-fold problem. Takata using a known dangerous explosive formula for the airbags, and people not going in for the recalls. FCA had the problem with the older Jeeps that NHTSA wanted fuel tank protection for, even though they met standards in place at the time of manufacture. FCA can't make you bring it in for the repair - they can only notify you. There's been talk of holding registration renewals if a vehicle is behind in recall work, in order to get them to the dealers.

 

[Bill Lins]

As for the Takata airbag mess, that's a two-fold problem. Takata using a known dangerous explosive formula for the airbags, and people not going in for the recalls.

From what I'm told, the biggest problem is that dealers are having to wait for the replacement inflators. The local dealers are waiting until they receive the parts before contacting the car owners, because neither the dealer nor the owner wants their car sitting on a lot, torn apart, until the new parts arrive.

 

[Newsa]

If you think that Fiat is not waiting in Italy to put their own 6.7 liter I-6 into the RAM, you should go on Fiat's website and read about that engine. I think they are just waiting and looking for an excuse to do just that but I also think that the marketing folks are shuddering to think that buyers in the USA will not accept anything but Cummins. I know if I were to consider a new RAM without a Cummins and some other brand with a Cummins, duh, I would go with Cummins in whatever body/name!!
gtwitch in wyoming

If they do..... i mean if FCA switches Fiat 6.7 for the Cummins, our used trucks will get an immediate (small) bump in blue book value. New truck buyers will likely abandon Ram for the other brands. And it will be a long time before Ram can celebrate any anniversaries & offer anniversary edition trucks. They still have to fix the SCR by federal order. If they don't, the feds will order them to buy back more trucks.

 

[Newsa]

Lower the flame temp, You still will need DEF for the leftover NOx

That would cause more likely incomplete combustion.... No? That sounds like the old excessive EGR. Which caused sootier exhaust due to incomplete combustion. And a resulting reduced power. Part of the improvement in the 2013+ was reduced EGR. Sounds like they are going backwards to me

 

[RustyJC]

The whole point of DEF/SCR was to allow the engines to be tuned for maximum power and efficiency (high NOx with high combustion temperatures) and then clean up the higher NOx levels in the exhaust stream. More reliance on EGR sounds like my 2011 350/650 truck.....

Rusty

 

[Newsa]

If you think that Fiat is not waiting in Italy to put their own 6.7 liter I-6 into the RAM, you should go on Fiat's website and read about that engine. I think they are just waiting and looking for an excuse to do just that but I also think that the marketing folks are shuddering to think that buyers in the USA will not accept anything but Cummins. I know if I were to consider a new RAM without a Cummins and some other brand with a Cummins, duh, I would go with Cummins in whatever body/name!!
gtwitch in wyoming

The Fiat 6.7 weighs about the same as the Cummins ISB 6.7. However, it would take some re-engineering to put it in a ram as all their electronics on the FPT fiat 6.7 run on 24 V. I see 4 versions of their 6.7. I guess if you have 24 V alternators, you can use fewer amps. But it's not a direct fit. Since all the trailers are running 12 V systems, they would need to carefully re-engineer the electronics.

Do the cummins medium duty applications also run 24 V electronics?

 

[JR]

We have a brand new 8.3L Cummins in an RT9150 that is a 24 volt system. I've been meaning to ask our crane and shovel mechanic why, as we have a 9130 that is 2 years old that is a 12 volt system. Same engine, gear box, chassis. Just a little more stick and counterweight. I believe the difference is in the RCL which is euro based on the 9150.

 

[Wayne M.]

I wish Ozy from across the pond could weigh in on that FPT 6.7. A while ago I saw a Case backhoe and we all were scratching our heads about the engine- supposed to be a 4B, but it wasn't. Then we spotted Iveco on a casting, then it all clicked.

 

[jhenderson]

24 volt is to12 what 12 was to 6. Much more efficient with more reserve capacity.

 

[Newsa]

24 volt is to12 what 12 was to 6. Much more efficient with more reserve capacity.

I agree. And nobody will be able to ask me for a jump when their battery dies. However, i always make sure my truck is off if I jump another vehicle. I've heard stories of people blowing modules jumping other cars with the engine runnning. A friend who runs a small local company of Ram 4500 tow trucks advised me about this.

 

[RustyJC]

24 volt is to12 what 12 was to 6. Much more efficient with more reserve capacity.

Yes, there's been trade magazine scuttlebutt about vehicles moving to 24vdc (or even 48vdc) electrical systems to handle the increase in electronics. As one might speculate, the manufacturers could also save weight and money as wiring gauge can be reduced (for a given load, as voltage is doubled, current is halved). To this point, no one has been brave enough to step off the cliff, at least in the conventional automotive market. I'm not sure what Tesla's using.

Rusty

 

[Wayne M.]

You'll see a big change in operating voltage once auto stop/start becomes commonplace, from what I've read.

I'm not versed in Tesla but I'd wager to say the 12VDC system is similar to hybrids out there now like the Prius and older Escape. Those have a liquid cooled inverter that knocks down the HV ~230 VDC, so there's no alternator, and newer Priui (plural Prius) have no belt at all.