2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Disable ABS

[moon]

Can someone tell me exactly how to disable the ABS brake system without it showing codes,there was a discussion on it a while back but even tho it seemed some did it no one really said how to do it. 2001. 5 Cummins.

 

[illflem]

My feeling is that anyone who tells you how to disable a safety system on your vehicle is sticking their neck out and really shouldn't be posting it here. If you search for disable abs you will find someone who will tell you how via email.

 

[moon]

Got the fix to disable ABS,i have been driving for 50 yrs in all conditions and never had an accident but i darn near wiped out a small car in icy conditions with these stupid ABS. The screwball that developed these probably never seen ice or snow in his life, probably was born and lived around the equator,maybe even on the water,il bet he worked for the goverment,they would have the mentality or lack of it to come up with an idea as dumb as this.

 

[parcher]

ABS gives you control while braking true, stopping distance is increased, but you can steer around things rather than crash into them. The thing to remember is "stomp, stay, steer" Stomp on the brake, stay on the brake and steer. On some vehicles, imports mostly, applying the e-brake one click would turn off the abs. On most systems the abs will be turned off if the brake warning light is on, controller won't want to try an abs stop if it thinks there is a system problem. I personally like abs and would not advise tampering with it.

 

[illflem]

Seems to me that the insurance companies have a good handle on what prevents or reduces accident damage/injuries. They also give a discount if your vehicle has ABS. 'Nuff said?



If you learned how to drive and react in emergency situations without them, abs brakes are worse. You step on the brakes a tad bit hard, abs kicks in, feels like brake failure if you haven't had them before. Your normal reaction is then to take your foot off the brake and reapply. POW, you run into what you were trying to avoid in the first place because pumping the pedal increased the stopping distance. It's just something to relearn. Now that I'm used to abs, I like it. Plenty of ice in my parts and a 40 year old habit to brake.

 

[Wiredawg]

Brake Modifying...dangerous

All:



I read a post where a guy disabled his ABS on his 3500 and wiped out a car when he went sideways braking.



My own story on this: I didn't disable the ABS on my former 2500, but I did lengthen the load sensing valve to allow use of Airlift airbags when under a load. It tells the brakes system there's a load when the truck is still level. Anyway, I didn't shorten after pulling 5er. In wet conditions, truck started going sidways.



Morale of the story: Don't alter brake system other than standard pad/shoe/caliper upgrades.



Wiredawg

 

[fox]

A lot of opinions here, and that is good.

When I nearly hit a car one day I was going mayby 35-40 it was clear and dry. He came out intendind to cross 4 lanes and apeared to want to gey hit. I was nearest to him but had ample time to get stopped. One wheel apparently was on sand and slid/ the abs worked and kept the truck straight but there was NO option to steer around him. I could have stopped in a few lenghts 4-5 or so but the abs goy me stopped in about 10. That was with-in 5 ft of him.

So, I almost got to spend the insurance rebate.

I choose to operate my own vehicle not someone from far away.

 

[HC]

A direct quote: "Therefore, NHTSA wishes to, as rapidly as possible, determine why the real world performance for existing, production ABS is not producing the anticipated effectiveness that has been suggested under test track conditions. "



Stand by for a long post...



Some of you have ABS systems that are performing as envisioned, and I'm sure its a great thing. I agree there are legal issues involved with attempting to solve braking performance problems at the end-user level with "unauthorized" modifications. But this issue goes deep - just like the first-generation air bags that "saved" some people, while killing others. Not all ABS systems, and not every unit of "generally" good systems, is performing the way it should. And when DC can't fix your brakes, the customer is going to have to make a difficult decision - try to fix it, or just give up and sell the vehicle? The first choice is "probably" illegal, the second choice is almost certainly unethical, so what should a person do? Like I said, no easy answers.



I'm not blowing smoke when I say some ABS units or systems aren't working right. From the NHTSA web page, you'll find the full text of the article quoted here:



A number of statistical analyses of accident databases have been performed during the last three years. These analyses suggest that the introduction of ABS does not seem to have reduced the number of automobile accidents where they were expected to be effective. Kahane stated that involvements in multi-vehicle crashes on wet roads were significantly reduced by 24 percent, and nonfatal crashes by 14 percent (with ABS). However, these reductions were offset by a statistically significant increase in the frequency of single-vehicle, run-off-road crashes (rollovers or impacts with fixed objects), as compared to cars without ABS. Fatal run-off-road crashes were up by 28 percent and nonfatal crashes by 19 percent. It is unknown to what extent, if any, this increase is due to ABS or other causes. It is also unknown to what extent, if any, this increase is due to drivers incorrect usage of ABS or incorrect responses by drivers to their ABS.

In comparison, some benefits were observed for light vehicles other than automobiles (pickup trucks, sport utility vehicles, and vans), equipped with two-wheel ABS instead of the four-wheel ABS used on most automobiles. Two-wheel ABS has been effective in reducing the risk of nonfatal run-off-road crashes for almost every type of light truck. Nonfatal rollovers were reduced by 30 to 40 percent. Side impacts with fixed objects were reduced by 15 to 30 percent. Frontal impacts with fixed objects were reduced by 5 to 20 percent.

In general, ABS appears to be a very promising safety device when evaluated on a test track. Under many pavement conditions, ABS allows the driver to stop a vehicle more rapidly while maintaining steering control, even during extreme panic braking. Therefore, NHTSA wishes to, as rapidly as possible, determine why the real world performance for existing, production ABS is not producing the anticipated effectiveness that has been suggested under test track conditions.

 

[illflem]

The key line from above;

''It is unknown to what extent, if any, this increase is due to ABS or other causes. It is also unknown to what extent, if any, this increase is due to drivers incorrect usage of ABS or incorrect responses by drivers to their ABS. ''

 

[moon]

Excellent post HC, just what i was referring to,the NHTSA dont even know the real world exsists,their living in fantasy land sitting there scratching their heads and wondering why is there so many more accidents since ABS was introduced, i wonder what color the sky is in their world?

 

[JR2]

I always thought that ABS was just a gimmick... . you know... my car has ABS. . yadda yadda... . Then I went to a company sponsored driving school/class. It this class we took a older worn out chevy caprice out onto a test track (read abandoned air port) and did a little test. We got the car up to 70 mph and then jammed on the brakes as hard as we could... . holy cow no sliding, no sideways no nothing, just a fun ride. This was down a simulated road made of cones. Then we tired the same test with a older ford pick up with out ABS (It has a full roll cage and 5 point harness for driver and passenger) and guess what..... no one made it out the end of the cones and no one got the truck stopped anywhere near where the caprice stopped. A couple of folks would not even try it after watching other do it.



Yelloweyes- may I suggest that you take your truck to a big parking lot somewhere and acquaint youreself with how it handles with ABS and ice/snow. It does not take much to get the hang of it and once you get used to it, you will find it really works. Rember to mash it to the floor and do not let up... exactly the opposite of how I leaned too.....





I bet the increase in accidents is caused by people pushing the limits of thre cars. Know what I mean... . well the car handles so much better and can stop on a dime, why not drive 130mph down this highway. .

 

[Shovelhead]

I think that the last paragraph of JR's post hit the nail on the head.

There are too many mediocre & untrained drivers depending on "Technology" to save their behinds when their lack of experience gets them in over their heads.

If there were no seatbelts, safety glass, ABS, front, rear, and side Airbags, Traction Control, Automatic 4X4, etc, these folks might have to slow down and drive within their abilities.

 

[moon]

JR2,first of all i dont need a big parking lot to practise on,i have been practiseing for 50 yrs on every kind of road imaginable and may i suggest(no offence intended) that if you would have done your testing using a little common sense you could have stopped in at least half the time and lenght without ABS as with it and furthermore if you know what your doing you can control the braking and direction ,not some idiotic computer applying the brakes off and on. There was a post on here awhile back that the guy said he got the ticket becouse some bystander said his attempt to stop was eratic before he hit the other car. Its a known and proven fact that it takes 40% more time and lenght to stop with ABS,by that time its to late to do anything,no wonder there has been more accidents since the introduction of the ABS and thats a proven fact. Again(no offence intended) if one cant control a vehicle unless he thinks he has to mash his brake pedal down as hard as he can on less than ideal road conditions hes in for a rude awakening becouse by the time ABS starts and stops your braking your way over the time it should have taken you to stop and you hit someone or your off the road. You can do a lot of stupid things on a parking lot where life or death dont matter,do it in the real world and see what happens. Nothing personal intended.

 

[Ramafid]

I Think ABS is good depending on what system is installed. I have been in sports cars where the ABS has worked great. I can tell you the ABS in my truck doesn't even come close. The test between the chevy caprice with ABS and the ford pickup with no ABS is not a fair test. They are two different vehicles. Everyone knows a pickup has very little weight in the rear and thus will slide the back around much more easily than a big heavy rear wheel drive car. Let's compare the same vehicle if you want to see what the real difference would be. To everyone that thinks you can stop quicker with ABS I suggest a little test for you. Go find a gravel road and measure the distance it takes for you to stop from 30-40 mph with the ABS. Next pull the fuse ( no ABS) and try the same test. I think you will be very surprised. It's no contest. The NO ABS wins hands down by a big margin. The same is true on pavement if only one tire hits sand, snow, water, etc. you have very little braking effort which translates to much longer stopping distances. While coming to a stop I have hit some ripples in the road surface which activated the ABS and I nearly rear-ended the car in front of me. This had nothing to do with going too fast and slamming on the brakes. It was a normal stop in dry conditions with plenty of distance to stop. The ABS was the problem. I also drive for a living ( 125- 150 k miles per year) so I get plenty of on road time. If you like your ABS and it works fine, then great. For some of us that the ABS doesn't work as intended, it's just that, it doesn't work. We need a good solution to fix our problem.

 

[fox]

Anyone who wants to know how to correct this abs can feel free to PM me.

Ramafid you pm box is full. Delete some of them and I'll send it to you.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I'm one of those people that had an accident BECAUSE of ABS. My last truck was a GMC Sonoma and I had complained many times about the ABS system (to my dealer, GM, NHTSA - and my dad who was a GM exec). Unforetunately, the system was working as designed. As said above there are vast differences between ABS systems out there. I've driven Corvettes with ABS and there's NO WAY you could outbrake the ABS system on those cars - after a stop you have to scrape your brain off the windshield because it stops so hard and fast it comes right out of your skull. With trucks on the other hand it's far different. With my Sonoma as said above just coming up to a stop sign if there were stutter bumps the brakes would release (and yes I would continue depressing the brake pedal - HARD) for what was probably 1/4 second - maybe less but it sure seemed like more. In one case I was in a panic stop because a car ahead of me had panic stopped - I was going to be stopped about 5 feet short of her car when I had the brakes on just a bit too much and locked a tire, the ABS released and I hit her car with no brakes at all (timing was just right). After that I figured out how to disable the ABS (put a switch on it to turn it on or off because the cruise control was on the same circuit and I didn't want to lose it).



My dad didn't believe me when I told him I could beat the ABS system so I took him out a number of times in different conditions - dry pavement, wet pavement, loose dirt, snow, ice - and EVERY time I was able to beat the ABS system - the minimum was on dry pavement by about 20%, on ice I beat it by well over 100%! He was shocked. His results were different by the way but worst case he was beat by 20% by the ABS and best case he beat it by 50%. Keep in mind that I have raced bikes and have driven a number of cars on racetracks so I am very familiar with threshold braking. IMO we have many pieces of technology that are being thrown at us because of a SEVERE lack of driver training. If we spent the money that has been spent on ABS and airbag systems on driver training (REAL driver training - driving in severe conditions, skids, etc) we would save a ton more lives. Driver training in this country flat out sucks. When my daughter is of driving age she'll be going to a performance driving school like Bondurant, etc - so that she will have the skills to avoid an accident herself.



I'll climb off my soapbox now.

 

[HC]

The facts are emerging that ABS is simply not providing the promised reduction in accidents. I believe I've read that some insurance companies are even dropping the "ABS credits" now that the statistics aren't backing up the "benefits" of ABS.



I find the argument that folks "don't know how to use the ABS" interesting. Wasn't one of the biggest selling points supposed to be that ABS was "better" for those "untrained" drivers, in "panic" situations? If you read the posts of those who have had bad experiences here, it's not from someone who used the ABS incorrectly by "pumping" the brakes. Its from folks who knew with ABS "jam it", and the ABS simply did not perform it's job effectively.



Again, I repeat my earlier thought: I'm happy for those of you who have a good unit that is fuctioning the way it should. When you've driven one of the "bad" ones, you'll know what the rest of us are talking about and will quit suggesting it is lack of driver skill or knowledge that is causing these problems. I would love to have a good ABS system, like some above said they had driven. But I think some of the companies, including DC, are still working out the bugs.



(A foot note on the longer article - rear wheel anti-lock was generally a big winner for light trucks - it is the four wheel antilock systems that seem to be problematic on some models. )

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

BTW, when I bought my Dodge I specifically looked for and bought a truck with rear wheel only ABS. 4 wheel ABS was a deal buster for me.

 

[HC]

Originally posted by Steve St. Laurent

BTW, when I bought my Dodge I specifically looked for and bought a truck with rear wheel only ABS. 4 wheel ABS was a deal buster for me.

Me too! (Baaaad experiences with Chevy's system... )

 

[Ramafid]

I wish I would have got just the rear wheel ABS but spent the extra dollars on four wheel ABS. What a mistake!!