Disengaging front wheel drive in lo-range

[JHenry]

So, how much fuel are you saving by ADDING weight and how many miles are you gonna have to drive to recover the cost of the kit?



As far as wear goes, everything is still turning just like it was with only a minor reduction in tension.



Don't get me wrong its a great addition, but, fuel and parts savings is a unsupportable reason for doing this. Slow down 5mph and don't run the wheels to the locks would give a much better return without a huge investment.

What weight? The only additional significant weight is the Warn hubs. If they weigh more than 10 pounds together I'd be surprised.

And as you later acknowledged, everything is NOT still turning. That is the point of the free-wheelilng hubs. I am convinced there will be positive returns in the long run, both in mileage and in reduced wear. We'll see.

 

[steved]

So, how much fuel are you saving by ADDING weight and how many miles are you gonna have to drive to recover the cost of the kit?



As far as wear goes, everything is still turning just like it was with only a minor reduction in tension.



Don't get me wrong its a great addition, but, fuel and parts savings is a unsupportable reason for doing this. Slow down 5mph and don't run the wheels to the locks would give a much better return without a huge investment.

Adding weight? What?



As for mileage, while slowing down does often increase mileage, the DT kit increased my mileage by about 1. 5mpg by itself, at the same speed... while it might not be cost effective, it didn't cost me fuel mileage like, let's say changing to bigger tires... and the DT kit would eventually pay for itself before it wears out.



As for the parts savings... I fully expect to get at least 200k before needing to change the front bearings... this saves me the cost of a unit bearing, it also reduces the wear on the axle joints, tcase, and differential... so how does this NOT save you money??



And not turning to the locks?? You are still putting everything in a bind...



Don't get me wrong either, both unit bearings ann the DT kit have their pro's/con's... I mean it's not like I can pull into 4wd with the hubs unlocked... but it sure beats laying under the truck in the slop reinstalling the driveshaft!



steved

 

[cerberusiam]

I've used 4-low for years in my tow vehicles. Never disconnected the front and had zero problems (knock on wood). Usually on hard surfaces I don't need low; usually it is in a gravel campground road, grass or dirt, so slippage happens easily.



After hurricanes last year I did run 4-low on dry pavement and spun all four pulling trees out with no ill effect, so these are pretty stout axles.



Gary

That has been my experience also, even with the dana's. The only issues I have had is when it becomes neccessary to chain the front tires and even then a little care will negate the problems.



Steved, I will take your word on the mpg. I have never seen more than . 5 but that could be use and different vehicle. All I have experienced and heard tells me a cost savings is way down the road so basing the decision on that seems a bit optimistic.

 

[steved]

That has been my experience also, even with the dana's. The only issues I have had is when it becomes neccessary to chain the front tires and even then a little care will negate the problems.



Steved, I will take your word on the mpg. I have never seen more than . 5 but that could be use and different vehicle. All I have experienced and heard tells me a cost savings is way down the road so basing the decision on that seems a bit optimistic.

My only concern is while the dana's and AAM's might be "stout axles", the chain still stretches in the tcase.



And as with every "add-on", if you plan on it paying for itself, you bought it for the wrong reason. I personally bought the DT kit to get rid of the 70 mph 3rd gen vibs, which it did quite nicely... the added benefit of fuel mileage was just an added bonus. The same with the FASS, while it theoretically should pay for itself with MPG savings, I bought it for the added filtration, not the fuel savings.



steved

 

[JohnCooper]

So how much is the Dyna-Trac kit?

From what I remember it is somewhere around $1800, can't remember if this is the installed price or just the cost of the kit.



I'm just going to wait until my front wheel bearings go out (from what I have heard, this won't be to long from now, I have 40K miles so far). I'm also waiting for the EMS Offroad kit, pricing looks better than the Dynatrac kit.

 

[steved]

From what I remember it is somewhere around $1800, can't remember if this is the installed price or just the cost of the kit.



I'm just going to wait until my front wheel bearings go out (from what I have heard, this won't be to long from now, I have 40K miles so far). I'm also waiting for the EMS Offroad kit, pricing looks better than the Dynatrac kit.

$1800 is the cost of the kit.



The EMS kit isn't available for the 3rd gens as of yet...



steved

 

[GLuttmer]

The only thing I don't see being discussed is the long-term disadvantage of letting those front u-joints remain static ... if you don't use them for long periods of time and just drive in 2-wheel drive, some people have mentioned they thought that's what caused u-joint bearing failure. This, of course, may or may not be true ... but they felt it was important to give the front axles some exercise periodically in order to get the needle bearings repositioned.

 

[DMcGalliard]

Hello Sid325,

I am interested in the Dynatrac for my 2005 3500 but it was my understanding that it only worked on the 2500? Do they have a kit for the 3500? I have tried to contact them several times with no luck. What is the deal. Let me know if yours is for the 3500 and what is the price.



Thanks, Dave Mc

 

[sid325]

Dave Mc,



I've never heard that before. When I ordered the kit DT ask what truck the kit was going on and they didn't say anything. My kit is installed and works great. It is a little pricey, but what the heck. I have no desire to own one of the newer Dodge's, 6. 7l, so I guess I'll be keeping this truck for many years to come.



Sid.



PS, Anyone w/the kit installed notice a much improved turning radius?

 

[klenger]

There is an issue with the 3500 DRW only. Something about the wheel spacers.

 

[Lips]

The only thing I don't see being discussed is the long-term disadvantage of letting those front u-joints remain static ... if you don't use them for long periods of time and just drive in 2-wheel drive, some people have mentioned they thought that's what caused u-joint bearing failure. This, of course, may or may not be true ... but they felt it was important to give the front axles some exercise periodically in order to get the needle bearings repositioned.

I don't see how a properly greased ujoint is going to have any problems from sitting around static for a very long time. I think it's a great kit, but I don't buy for one second that it will pay for itself over the long run. The MPG increase is very slight, as is the reduction in wear and tear on parts.



It's like a lot of mods we do in the sense that it's "worth it" to us, but it's not really "worth it" financially... ... ... ... . know what I mean?

 

[steved]

I don't see how a properly greased ujoint is going to have any problems from sitting around static for a very long time. I think it's a great kit, but I don't buy for one second that it will pay for itself over the long run. The MPG increase is very slight, as is the reduction in wear and tear on parts.



It's like a lot of mods we do in the sense that it's "worth it" to us, but it's not really "worth it" financially... ... ... ... . know what I mean?

I too find it hard to take that ujoints not under any load (and properly greased) would fail faster than those POS joints that came from factory. Even though I don't use 4wd, I still grease the front axle joints at every oil change. And DT does state to run in 4wd (with the hubs unlocked) for a couple miles each month to ensure the front diff stays lubed... I feel it is more to ensure the internals don't start to rust from not being covered in oil...



And again, if you buy it to pay for itself, then you are buying it for the wrong reason... if you have a use for it, then the money you shell out doesn't hurt as bad nor are you looking for a return on your investment...



But it also DOES depend on how long you intend to keep your truck... as the DT kit (and some other mods) will pay for itself, eventually.



steved

 

[JHenry]

Hello Sid325,

I am interested in the Dynatrac for my 2005 3500 but it was my understanding that it only worked on the 2500? Do they have a kit for the 3500? I have tried to contact them several times with no luck. What is the deal. Let me know if yours is for the 3500 and what is the price.



Thanks, Dave Mc

My kit took about 6 weeks from time of ordering to arrival. I dealt primarily with Robert Marburger (rmarburger@dynatrac.com). Have you checked their website? www.dynatrac.com

My motive for buying this kit was essentially the same as steved. I was primarily interested in reducing the wear and the vibration. Fuel economy increase is definitely there.

My son has my old '03 and at 80k he had to have the front spindle bearings and u-joints replaced. It took 4 hours just to remove each spindle. There is a poor design issue with the factory spindle connection. If you install the Dyna Tracs, be sure to use some form of sealant around the perimeter to keep water out of that connection. It's a very well engineered kit and you will be satisfied with it. JH

 

[steved]

My kit took about 6 weeks from time of ordering to arrival. I dealt primarily with Robert Marburger...



If you install the Dyna Tracs, be sure to use some form of sealant around the perimeter to keep water out of that connection.

I will only add that it took about the same amount of time for myself to receive the kit that was promised in two weeks... every time I called, there was something new that held up delivery. Make sure you are NOT in a hurry as DT isn't very quick to deliver these kits (I actually was under the impression they were made to order and they don't stock them ahead for some very dumb reason).



As for sealant... I would use, and do use, a high quality antisieze compound. I have never had one seize on after I coated the surfaces with antisieze and it is a whole lot nicer to work with after the fact than a sealant.



steved

 

[Plowboy]

Well I feel it will be worth it. My bearings seem to go out every 100 000 km, like clockwork. Once one went out when I was out in the bush working. I was about 10 km from a camp where I could leave it and wait for a tow truck. I couldn't just leave it overnight because I doubt any tools or glass would be left in the truck by morning. By the time I got to the camp, my wheel was at about a 25 deg. angle. My repair bill was close to $3000 (axel shaft, bearings, brake parts). My best price on a wheel bearing up here is just under $500. So thus far I have over $4000 in wheel bearings on the 03, not to mention the downtime, and labor. If the dynatrac will give me a better duty cycle, and servicability it's worth the $1800 to me! If I save a little fuel, it will be an added bonus.



Carl

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

correct me if I am wrong arn't the hubs being talked about the kind that require getting out of the truck and turning the selector on each wheel??? if so I can't believe people get so excited about them, who wants to get out of the truck to turn the darn things on?? I don't, where I live we get ice and snow, usually the residential areas are the worst and the main roads are fine, its sure nice to just yank the 4x4 shifter while leaving the neighborhood and shift out on the main roads, or getting caught in a snow squall, and shifting into 4x4 while moving. I personally think the manual hubs are a joke, All my buddies that have mid 90's fords had to replace those manual hubs shortly after hitting 100k, once I had a buddy that his where bad without us knowing it, we found out the hardway on a road in the middle of no where stuck in the snow. that has been my experinece with manual hubs, They suck, and are inferior to the modern setup on our rams, not only for convience sake but having to replace the darn things after 100k miles

 

[steved]

correct me if I am wrong arn't the hubs being talked about the kind that require getting out of the truck and turning the selector on each wheel??? if so I can't believe people get so excited about them, who wants to get out of the truck to turn the darn things on?? I don't, where I live we get ice and snow, usually the residential areas are the worst and the main roads are fine, its sure nice to just yank the 4x4 shifter while leaving the neighborhood and shift out on the main roads, or getting caught in a snow squall, and shifting into 4x4 while moving. I personally think the manual hubs are a joke, All my buddies that have mid 90's fords had to replace those manual hubs shortly after hitting 100k, once I had a buddy that his where bad without us knowing it, we found out the hardway on a road in the middle of no where stuck in the snow. that has been my experinece with manual hubs, They suck, and are inferior to the modern setup on our rams, not only for convience sake but having to replace the darn things after 100k miles

First, IMO they are by far superior to the non-replaceable unit bearings we currently are offered... I want something serviceable, not throw away.



Would you rather spend $250 on a unit bearing or $50 on replaceable bearings? Would you like to replace components (tcase chain, axle joints, diff bearings) you hardly use because they wear out since they are always spinning??



As for winter driving... if I know it will be bad (or potentially be bad), I simply lock them in and forget about them. No fuss, no problems... when locked in they are the same as your "great" unit bearing hubs.



I also live where they get snow for about 4-5 months of the year... but how often do you actually need 4wd? I can count on 1 hand how many times I actually used 4wd last winter. And no, I wasn't pushing it to see just how far I could go, I had the hubs locked in, but if I don't need 4wd, why engage it??



I personally have never seen a quality locking hub have any issues... I ran them for many years. Ford hubs are junk to begin with... I won't even go there...



The few people who feel like you about locking hubs are the reason the rest of us are stuck with the lazy-man's unitbearing hub. It is this modern "throw away" or "disposable" society we live in that has driven the cost of stuff up...



And it is a personal choice, I prefer to be able to choose when I need the front axle engaged, so I can get better mileage, longer life from those components... if you choose to replace unit bearings about every 100k and pay more for fuel because you like to have the option to pull 4wd anytime (including when the roads are completely bare and dry), so be it... wish I had your money to burn.



steved

 

[brods]

... . All my buddies that have mid 90's fords had to replace those manual hubs shortly after hitting 100k, once I had a buddy that his where bad without us knowing it, we found out the hardway on a road in the middle of no where stuck in the snow.

Why did they have to replace them? Did they ever repack the wheel bearings and check the hub orings during those 100k miles? I guess maintenance is a dirty word now a days. Maybe its just a ford thing?



I with Steved on this one. Give me a locking hubs or at least make it an option. If its too inconvenient

to get out and turn them, just leave em locked all the time, problem solved.

 

[Hercules130]

I don't understand what people have against these lockout hubs. Once EMS off road gets there kit ready, it will cost about the same to put there kit on as it would be to replace the factory unit bearing.

 

[rbattelle]

Amidst all the argument against the crappy OEM hub/bearing assemblies, I will say that I think they are actually a good design. I think their only flaw is a lack of anti-seize compound between the steering knuckle and the bearing. Other than that, I think they're a strong, convenient solution. And I like the low part count.



That said, the lockouts are great too. I agree they're pretty strong, and it's not that inconvenient to get out and lock them when necessary. I think their only flaw is the price.



It all comes down to personal preference. No one will ever "win" the "which is better" argument.



Ryan