FATCAT: Did you personally get burned with marriage/divorce? If so... that's too bad, bro.
Matt
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Divorce
- Thread starter rfoust
- Start Date
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Having been involved in many hundreds of divorces both as an attorney and a Judge, all I can say is Fatcats view of the system is waaayyyy off base.
1. Most if not all states now have a 50/50 division rule which applies to all but extraordinary situation---such as a marriage of only a few months duration.
2. While there are more women Judges now, most are still men and untill a few years ago it was rare to see a woman on the bench; the idea that all these men were going way out of their way to favor women is silly. And, if a judge did unduly favor one side or the other, all lawyers know how to get the decision revied by an appeallate court where a disproportionate distribution will be promptly adjusted.
3. It is a simple fact that in most divorces BOTH sides think they got mistreated. A favorite pastime of some of my staff was to go out into the public hallway after a trial to listen to the things the litigants said. Staff members would now and then come back to see me laughing uproariously about the quarrell going on in the hall where husband and wife and lawyers are debating who got screwed; each side absolutly convinced I had favored the other side.
4. When a judge handles these cases by the hundreds, to claim that they do not pretty well know what they are doing---how to evaluate the need for restraining orders, how to devide assets etc. , is to suggest that one of you folks on installing your 50th set of injectors, is likely to screw it up because you don't have any idea how.
One morning two lawyers really made my YEAR; this happened to concern criminal cases, but the situation applies equally to civil cases.
That morning when I arrived for work, the senior deputy district attorney, who had been a classmate in law school was waiting to see me. Having been a classmate and friend for years, he felt at liberty to speak his mind; he sat down and said, "Vaugh, I was asked to speak to you on behalf the entire DA's staff. We feel you are so biased in favor of defendants that we cannot get a fair trial for the state"
I said I was sorry they felt that way, but did not agree with them. He went away a little disgruntled.
I spent the morning in trial and when I broke for lunch, an older defense attorney was waiting to see me. Being a guy who was about 20 years older than I, and a friend for 10 or more years, he felt he could speak his mind.
He followed me into my office and blurted out, "Dam it Vaughn, you have become nothing but a rubber stamp for the DA's office. A criminal defendant can't get a fair shake in your courtroom. "
I burst out laughing so hard I was nearly crying; he looked dumbfounded.
I said "Joel, before you say more, walk over to the DA's office and talk to Lee"
and sent him away. For months, they both did their best to avoid me, and I jabed them with it every time I saw them.
This sort of thing is played out for Judges OVER AND OVER -----ALL THE TIME. Comparing these experiences is one of the favorite things Judges talk about when they are together.
It is just the standard thing that both sides think they got shafted and the other side got everything. In over 30 years hearing cases, I would bet that not a single week went by that I did not get an irate letter from a husband or wife, or landlord or tenent, or what ever other kind of litigant, expressing outrage over the way I had given the other side way more than was fair.
That is a standard part of every Judges day.
Vaughn
1. Most if not all states now have a 50/50 division rule which applies to all but extraordinary situation---such as a marriage of only a few months duration.
2. While there are more women Judges now, most are still men and untill a few years ago it was rare to see a woman on the bench; the idea that all these men were going way out of their way to favor women is silly. And, if a judge did unduly favor one side or the other, all lawyers know how to get the decision revied by an appeallate court where a disproportionate distribution will be promptly adjusted.
3. It is a simple fact that in most divorces BOTH sides think they got mistreated. A favorite pastime of some of my staff was to go out into the public hallway after a trial to listen to the things the litigants said. Staff members would now and then come back to see me laughing uproariously about the quarrell going on in the hall where husband and wife and lawyers are debating who got screwed; each side absolutly convinced I had favored the other side.
4. When a judge handles these cases by the hundreds, to claim that they do not pretty well know what they are doing---how to evaluate the need for restraining orders, how to devide assets etc. , is to suggest that one of you folks on installing your 50th set of injectors, is likely to screw it up because you don't have any idea how.
One morning two lawyers really made my YEAR; this happened to concern criminal cases, but the situation applies equally to civil cases.
That morning when I arrived for work, the senior deputy district attorney, who had been a classmate in law school was waiting to see me. Having been a classmate and friend for years, he felt at liberty to speak his mind; he sat down and said, "Vaugh, I was asked to speak to you on behalf the entire DA's staff. We feel you are so biased in favor of defendants that we cannot get a fair trial for the state"
I said I was sorry they felt that way, but did not agree with them. He went away a little disgruntled.
I spent the morning in trial and when I broke for lunch, an older defense attorney was waiting to see me. Being a guy who was about 20 years older than I, and a friend for 10 or more years, he felt he could speak his mind.
He followed me into my office and blurted out, "Dam it Vaughn, you have become nothing but a rubber stamp for the DA's office. A criminal defendant can't get a fair shake in your courtroom. "
I burst out laughing so hard I was nearly crying; he looked dumbfounded.
I said "Joel, before you say more, walk over to the DA's office and talk to Lee"
and sent him away. For months, they both did their best to avoid me, and I jabed them with it every time I saw them.
This sort of thing is played out for Judges OVER AND OVER -----ALL THE TIME. Comparing these experiences is one of the favorite things Judges talk about when they are together.
It is just the standard thing that both sides think they got shafted and the other side got everything. In over 30 years hearing cases, I would bet that not a single week went by that I did not get an irate letter from a husband or wife, or landlord or tenent, or what ever other kind of litigant, expressing outrage over the way I had given the other side way more than was fair.
That is a standard part of every Judges day.
Vaughn
Thanks for the insight, Vaughn.
I waited until I was 27 to get married. She was 27, too, and had no previous serious relationships before. I was her first "boyfriend", I guess you could say.
I've only known her now for 5 years, and we've been married since June '02. I can hardly remember my life before her.
Our first baby is on the way in March.
It's well known that when Cortez arrived in the New World, he burned his ships, and as a result, his men were FORCED to make it in the new land.
I take a similar view of marriage. Yes, we have had some absolultely horrible fights (one required drywall repair after I lost my temper). Yes, there are sometimes I feel STUCK in my marriage.
All this is normal, though. Truth is, I *AM* stuck. But she's stuck with ME, too, hehe.
See, when I married her, I put to death all other options. I guess I may have sentenced myself to a lifetime of misery. She may have done the same. Our ships are burned, so to speak.
We both brought a lot of baggage into the marriage. I'm the son of a minister that divorced his wife. She's the daughter of a man that committed suicide when his only daughter was nine. Needless to say, we had a lot to work through before we could even THINK of having a decent relationship. We dated for a while, and were apart for most of the time. It was good for us.
I'm very happy that I married her; she's the second-best thing that's ever happened to me.
We constantly have to guard against thinking that we deserve better than what the other is giving us. We also have to constantly strive to give each other the our best. If we don't, we could easily be the next sad divorce statistic.
I don't believe in divorce, but I'm not here to critique those who have had to endure such a horrible thing. I'm so sorry that ANYONE would have to endure such a horrible thing as divorce.
Every divorce story I hear makes me more happy I married who I did.
Justin
I waited until I was 27 to get married. She was 27, too, and had no previous serious relationships before. I was her first "boyfriend", I guess you could say.
I've only known her now for 5 years, and we've been married since June '02. I can hardly remember my life before her.
Our first baby is on the way in March.
It's well known that when Cortez arrived in the New World, he burned his ships, and as a result, his men were FORCED to make it in the new land.
I take a similar view of marriage. Yes, we have had some absolultely horrible fights (one required drywall repair after I lost my temper). Yes, there are sometimes I feel STUCK in my marriage.
All this is normal, though. Truth is, I *AM* stuck. But she's stuck with ME, too, hehe.
See, when I married her, I put to death all other options. I guess I may have sentenced myself to a lifetime of misery. She may have done the same. Our ships are burned, so to speak.
We both brought a lot of baggage into the marriage. I'm the son of a minister that divorced his wife. She's the daughter of a man that committed suicide when his only daughter was nine. Needless to say, we had a lot to work through before we could even THINK of having a decent relationship. We dated for a while, and were apart for most of the time. It was good for us.
I'm very happy that I married her; she's the second-best thing that's ever happened to me.
We constantly have to guard against thinking that we deserve better than what the other is giving us. We also have to constantly strive to give each other the our best. If we don't, we could easily be the next sad divorce statistic.
I don't believe in divorce, but I'm not here to critique those who have had to endure such a horrible thing. I'm so sorry that ANYONE would have to endure such a horrible thing as divorce.
Every divorce story I hear makes me more happy I married who I did.
Justin
Last edited:
I have to reply to Vaughn..... not all judges are created equal.
This thread is turning out to be some darn good reading, folks! Now we can say we've heard it from darn near every angle. Well done, TDR members!
Matt
Matt
Although there are many horror stories, most divorces are pretty run of the mill. When I got divorced 16 years ago, my attorney said "If you both feel like you got screwed, then the settlement was probably fair. " He walked out on me and our 2 year old son. I didn't touch his company in the settlement - only asked that he help me get my college degree so I could teach school. He was so blown away that I didn't dismantle his company that he has been supportive of us both all these years. We exchange Christmas cards and call on birthdays. He remarried and has more children.
I have not. But I just finished by PhD, my son is a senior in High School, we have our farm and our horses, and I BOUGHT MYSELF A CUMMINS! My life is wonderful.
Though this isn't the way I planned my life - it has worked out for the best!
Remember "Living Well is the Best Revenge. " Go on with life and decide to be happy.
Dr. Phil, here we come...
Valarie
I have not. But I just finished by PhD, my son is a senior in High School, we have our farm and our horses, and I BOUGHT MYSELF A CUMMINS! My life is wonderful.
Though this isn't the way I planned my life - it has worked out for the best!
Remember "Living Well is the Best Revenge. " Go on with life and decide to be happy.
Dr. Phil, here we come...
Valarie
I don't believe in divorce either and I definitely would not have married had I thought things would have drifted the way they did. I got married to start a family and she just kept putting it aside. I burrned all of my "ships" and sacrificed my butt off but the other side decided that she didn't want to give up what she had and did before marriage. I was offended when she attended vet school and they told her at orientation that if a couple is married at the start of school that 75% of those marriages would fail. To top that off, they went on to say that if a student abuses drugs or slips some euthanasia solution into their pepsi to calm them down that the school would help to provide support and help but no such "help" would be provided for troubled marriages. They just shrugged off the stress on marriages.
I know that God disapproves of divorce other than certain circumstances but I also don't believe God wants us to suffer in bad marriages where things can't be worked out.
We signed all of the paperwork today and laughed and joked the whole time---this is a strange time. As of yet there are no hard feelings and we are proving that we are better friends than husband and wife.
I know that God disapproves of divorce other than certain circumstances but I also don't believe God wants us to suffer in bad marriages where things can't be worked out.
We signed all of the paperwork today and laughed and joked the whole time---this is a strange time. As of yet there are no hard feelings and we are proving that we are better friends than husband and wife.
GIT R DONE is of course correct; no group is without differences, some are better, more industrious, more honest, etc, etc. I could tell of a few judges for whom I had no respect. This fact does not alter the basic principles we were discussing.
There is one factor related to judges (and to an extent lawyers) that few others must face. Virtually everything a judge does is recorded, and scruntinized by someone(the lawyer on the losing side) itching to find any error or any sort of misconduct. Oo. There is near zero oportunity to screw up and then hide it or pretend it did not happen, or quickly redo it, and there is allways an appealate court the losing side can go to if they can find error or misconduct.
How many other people work in such a fishbowl??
Vaughn
There is one factor related to judges (and to an extent lawyers) that few others must face. Virtually everything a judge does is recorded, and scruntinized by someone(the lawyer on the losing side) itching to find any error or any sort of misconduct. Oo. There is near zero oportunity to screw up and then hide it or pretend it did not happen, or quickly redo it, and there is allways an appealate court the losing side can go to if they can find error or misconduct.
How many other people work in such a fishbowl??
Vaughn
Rfoust,
Brethren, I just stumbled across this thread, figured I'd chime in. I myself went through a divorce about a year ago. In fact I filed on the 29th days after Thanksgiving (ironically). My “X” and I were amiable. We could discuss things and reach some resolution. At the end it was easy to discuss issues that at any other time would have started days of bickering and fighting, go figure. We too, didn’t have any kids or any large debt, just a house and a couple of dogs. Guess what we argued about, yep the fury mutts.
Any how, we downloaded the all the divorce papers from the county web site. Filled them out went down to the court house, and filed. It was kind of a pain, they ask for a lot of information and make you document the heck out things. But in the long run it makes it hard for the other party to haunt you later. We did it without lawyers but they do have there place, they sure make it easier, and by that I mean they do all the leg work, complying all the necessary stuff. You just have to sit back and take the banter from the “X”.
You’re a local too, perhaps I see you at the RMTDR Christmas gathering.
Good luck!
Brethren, I just stumbled across this thread, figured I'd chime in. I myself went through a divorce about a year ago. In fact I filed on the 29th days after Thanksgiving (ironically). My “X” and I were amiable. We could discuss things and reach some resolution. At the end it was easy to discuss issues that at any other time would have started days of bickering and fighting, go figure. We too, didn’t have any kids or any large debt, just a house and a couple of dogs. Guess what we argued about, yep the fury mutts.
Any how, we downloaded the all the divorce papers from the county web site. Filled them out went down to the court house, and filed. It was kind of a pain, they ask for a lot of information and make you document the heck out things. But in the long run it makes it hard for the other party to haunt you later. We did it without lawyers but they do have there place, they sure make it easier, and by that I mean they do all the leg work, complying all the necessary stuff. You just have to sit back and take the banter from the “X”.
You’re a local too, perhaps I see you at the RMTDR Christmas gathering.
Good luck!
I will be at the Christmas party. We aren't argueing over the dogs for some reason----she is more than happy to let me have them.
We have officially filed and 90 days from Nov. 23rd I will officially be running solo!! Pretty happy about it too. Feels like a huge weight has been lifted. Under contract on a new(to me) house on a couple of acres---same kind of place we always looked for together but was never available in our price range(ironic). To top that off the mortgage payment is less than the current place!!??
Did one stupid thing though----went out and bought a 50" LCD big screen TV for some unknown reason(got to be something subconcious)
We have officially filed and 90 days from Nov. 23rd I will officially be running solo!! Pretty happy about it too. Feels like a huge weight has been lifted. Under contract on a new(to me) house on a couple of acres---same kind of place we always looked for together but was never available in our price range(ironic). To top that off the mortgage payment is less than the current place!!??
Did one stupid thing though----went out and bought a 50" LCD big screen TV for some unknown reason(got to be something subconcious)
rfoust said:
Yeah, its called being a man again! haha
I had a very similar experience too, but my friendly situation turned ugly, very ugly. I do understand about the huge weight being lifted off. Good for you.
And remember, its ok to look back and laugh at the good times. Just dont worry about the bad ones. Its over and time to move on.
Now, when can we come over to see the game on the new tube?
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