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dtt twins what's up with this
- Thread starter moolie
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LOL
Dave
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moolie said:
That would appear to be a "link". :-laf
Dave
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Moolie, slow down dude. Do you have full gauges to see what is going on with the 2 turbos? I mean, one total boost gauge that reads past 60, like a 0-100psi. This should be off the intake somewhere. Another to read the charge out of the Big turbo, to see how hard your driving it. A third in the exhaust manifold to see what drive pressures are doing.
With these 3 gauges, you can tune the twins. Maybe the wastegate is opening too soon, and the big turbo is being overspooled. A balance between them is key. Not sure what the turbos are, either.
Lastly, what kind of injectors are the ones you have from ATS?
Piers runs stock injectors with the TST, we all know big injectors don't play well with the TST, not sure about your box though, never used it.
I have a truck in Vegas that is pushing 590 with TST/EZ,100HP injectors, Twins(35/3TB) and Propane. We are going to pull the injectors and go with Flux injectors, when the guy is ready to move that direction. We spent a good amount of time tuning to get it just right, and it has run a 12. 8 at Vegas.
Water/Meth is also one of the next options we're going to add, real soon.
How much smoke do you get when running it hard, and the EGT's are pegged? Iif it smokes like crazy, I'd be looking back at the injector/box combo.
On this guys truck, he ran the best times and most HP with the TST on a lower setting, not a higher one, as most would expect. The injectors are hurting it there.
Food for thought.
With these 3 gauges, you can tune the twins. Maybe the wastegate is opening too soon, and the big turbo is being overspooled. A balance between them is key. Not sure what the turbos are, either.
Lastly, what kind of injectors are the ones you have from ATS?
Piers runs stock injectors with the TST, we all know big injectors don't play well with the TST, not sure about your box though, never used it.
I have a truck in Vegas that is pushing 590 with TST/EZ,100HP injectors, Twins(35/3TB) and Propane. We are going to pull the injectors and go with Flux injectors, when the guy is ready to move that direction. We spent a good amount of time tuning to get it just right, and it has run a 12. 8 at Vegas.
Water/Meth is also one of the next options we're going to add, real soon.
How much smoke do you get when running it hard, and the EGT's are pegged? Iif it smokes like crazy, I'd be looking back at the injector/box combo.
On this guys truck, he ran the best times and most HP with the TST on a lower setting, not a higher one, as most would expect. The injectors are hurting it there.
Food for thought.
I got through the first post but gave up on the other's myself. Rusty has a reasonable point. Their are peaple who are willing to help you out or try anyhow, don't snub them and maybe something will be figured out.
It sounds like a fuel issue to me, but I'm a 2nd Gen guy so good luck. I hope you get things figured out and some kind of resolution.
It sounds like a fuel issue to me, but I'm a 2nd Gen guy so good luck. I hope you get things figured out and some kind of resolution.
new update
just went for a spin and stopped by dodge to check out a yellow boy they had for 32K but it was a stick and i'm not ready to do that but i did find something upon showing these things to the guys at the dealership which may prove to be an issue. The tubing going to the top turbo actually has a hole in it and it's very strange i don't know exactly when it arrived. I was able to go out and hit 47 lbs boost is all. However this is an issue that could be hurting it in addittion to the leak on the housing itself i would say that i'm definitly losing something what i'm not sure. Now if this is the case i'm not trying to retract anything from what's stated earlier this thing shouldn't have a hole in the plumbing period but if it did at least then i would understand a bit about where the loss of power is. However i cannot say that the hole was there when we dyno'd. I am gonna let it cool off and then get down in there and really look and see if there is another leak. That is kind of good news in a way but also bad i mean this thing shouldn't have a hole in the plumbing this soon it's melting the battery case there on the side. However i think this is good news and although i'm not happy about another piece not holding I am happy that I may have found out some of the issues with the power. The hole is about the size almost of a popcorn kernal not quite but at least half that. Now i'm hoping that if this is the only leak then i will get it shut and then run again. I will look like i said for more underneath and then seal it what can i use to withstand that heat. Then i'll run it again. So this is hopefully the problem we are facing however that doesn't explain the other 2 trucks. However they aren't as high on my list as mine of course. I'll still need a new casting and the piping needs replaced and the boot that continued to blow off. It's strang but i'm actually happy i found this wrong. It can justify the claims of the designer to some degree if we are losing a ton of air there. The hole is right between the 2 turbo's so i'm happy that this could possibly a structural error and if that's the case i'll be sure to make that perfectly clear, however it still means that another part of the tubing needs to be replaced as with the housing and the boot. I can live with those kinds of malfunctions however. Then again to be fair i'm sure it wasn't there when we went rolling either. So i'll get it shut and then look and go for a ride and see if there is anything different by sop.
just went for a spin and stopped by dodge to check out a yellow boy they had for 32K but it was a stick and i'm not ready to do that but i did find something upon showing these things to the guys at the dealership which may prove to be an issue. The tubing going to the top turbo actually has a hole in it and it's very strange i don't know exactly when it arrived. I was able to go out and hit 47 lbs boost is all. However this is an issue that could be hurting it in addittion to the leak on the housing itself i would say that i'm definitly losing something what i'm not sure. Now if this is the case i'm not trying to retract anything from what's stated earlier this thing shouldn't have a hole in the plumbing period but if it did at least then i would understand a bit about where the loss of power is. However i cannot say that the hole was there when we dyno'd. I am gonna let it cool off and then get down in there and really look and see if there is another leak. That is kind of good news in a way but also bad i mean this thing shouldn't have a hole in the plumbing this soon it's melting the battery case there on the side. However i think this is good news and although i'm not happy about another piece not holding I am happy that I may have found out some of the issues with the power. The hole is about the size almost of a popcorn kernal not quite but at least half that. Now i'm hoping that if this is the only leak then i will get it shut and then run again. I will look like i said for more underneath and then seal it what can i use to withstand that heat. Then i'll run it again. So this is hopefully the problem we are facing however that doesn't explain the other 2 trucks. However they aren't as high on my list as mine of course. I'll still need a new casting and the piping needs replaced and the boot that continued to blow off. It's strang but i'm actually happy i found this wrong. It can justify the claims of the designer to some degree if we are losing a ton of air there. The hole is right between the 2 turbo's so i'm happy that this could possibly a structural error and if that's the case i'll be sure to make that perfectly clear, however it still means that another part of the tubing needs to be replaced as with the housing and the boot. I can live with those kinds of malfunctions however. Then again to be fair i'm sure it wasn't there when we went rolling either. So i'll get it shut and then look and go for a ride and see if there is anything different by sop.
Wow that hurts my eyes, but I got through it.
I will share my experience with ya moolie...
When I put on twins I saw an increase of 93. 2 RWHP on a M250. I had a pretty steady stream of the coal @ WOT in OD when I was running a single. The big turbo just helped make that smoke into power.
Did you have a steady stream of smoke at full boost when you were running the single?
I see 60 psi of total boost with 34 psi coming out of the big turbo. (Cold pipe pressure)
Do you have a second boost gauge? I will send you a bung to weld on the cold pipe if you give me your address. (Too attach a 1/8" boost gauge fitting)
The little hole you see??? Is it in a seam where they welded the pipe together?
When I first welded mine I capped both ends and pressurized the pipe using the 1/8" boost npt bung. I had leaks everywhere!!! Not big ones, but they were leaks.
I also had leaks in my drain tube from the big turbo to the block. Not a big leak, just a drop or two a night. Pulled it, re-welded, back in business.
RDLeader just got rid of his HX40/35 - BHT3B combo. I had a "like" SP66 made up for the top and a BB for the bottom. He is building them as we speak. Might want to watch for his results.
But of course these are both 24v second gen trucks.
I might be able to help you. Not a genius at these twins, but I have built a few sets. PM me your #.
I will share my experience with ya moolie...
When I put on twins I saw an increase of 93. 2 RWHP on a M250. I had a pretty steady stream of the coal @ WOT in OD when I was running a single. The big turbo just helped make that smoke into power.
Did you have a steady stream of smoke at full boost when you were running the single?
I see 60 psi of total boost with 34 psi coming out of the big turbo. (Cold pipe pressure)
Do you have a second boost gauge? I will send you a bung to weld on the cold pipe if you give me your address. (Too attach a 1/8" boost gauge fitting)
The little hole you see??? Is it in a seam where they welded the pipe together?
When I first welded mine I capped both ends and pressurized the pipe using the 1/8" boost npt bung. I had leaks everywhere!!! Not big ones, but they were leaks.
I also had leaks in my drain tube from the big turbo to the block. Not a big leak, just a drop or two a night. Pulled it, re-welded, back in business.
RDLeader just got rid of his HX40/35 - BHT3B combo. I had a "like" SP66 made up for the top and a BB for the bottom. He is building them as we speak. Might want to watch for his results.
But of course these are both 24v second gen trucks.
I might be able to help you. Not a genius at these twins, but I have built a few sets. PM me your #.
nah i don't have 2 gauges i will have them on tuesday and a fuel pressure now i looked at that hole in the powder coating by the battery there it's melting the damn battery lol. I am hoping this will fix some of the issues at hand if i fix this hole, i had some quick fix crap i put over it, not really sure how it'll hold up to heat though. Anyway i saw 47 psi today max and i hope that with this leak now we will increase that however, i'm not crazy about the hole in the powder coat i mean now that's another piece that i'm gonna have to replace. Rather soon i'm guessing i may just go get like a 3 1/2 or whatever band clamp for a couple days maybe. I can't even imagine how long it's gonna take to get this part replaced. Don't even really think it'll be addressed so i'll just try and get her done with some moolie engineering lol. I'm gonna take it out in a bit and see what if any boost increase also if there is any sort of melting of the battery then i'll make sure that junk i put over the hole keeps it shut and if not then i'll get something that will. Maybe i can get 55 i haven't ever gotten that much yet not even close but one never can tell ahead of time.
yeah i got a connection for that gauge and it's ordered it's a 34 lbs maximum i was told so i just got a 35 and the in cab fuel pressure which if i'm not mistaken would be tapped in the line or does it go straight to the fass i know there is a spot for one there right i just wanna make sure it's in the right spot is all before i go posting pressures. that's not until tuesday, but i do really have a hole in the powder coat lol not the gauge hookup but a hole that is shooting hot air and melting the damn battery lol.
This may be way off. I admit i didn't read the entire thread, especially your posts moolie (although i did attempt to read them). They literally hurt my eyes.
Twins are not rocket science anymore. If you have a gauge for total boost, one between the chargers and a backpressure gauge you should get a clear picture of what's going on with the turbos.
My guess (and i don't know anything about 3rd gens) is that it's something to do with the injectors. I have seen 2nd gens that make tons of heat and no power with certain injectors, but tons of power and less heat with other injectors. I think someone even mentioned the tst not liking certain bigger injectors.
If you really want to figure out whats going on you should consider all the possibilites, and not just slam the turbos.
Only my opinion.
Chris
Twins are not rocket science anymore. If you have a gauge for total boost, one between the chargers and a backpressure gauge you should get a clear picture of what's going on with the turbos.
My guess (and i don't know anything about 3rd gens) is that it's something to do with the injectors. I have seen 2nd gens that make tons of heat and no power with certain injectors, but tons of power and less heat with other injectors. I think someone even mentioned the tst not liking certain bigger injectors.
If you really want to figure out whats going on you should consider all the possibilites, and not just slam the turbos.
Only my opinion.
Chris
you guys have to give moolie a break, dont forget 6000 dollors should equal good product and espesially good customer service, i dont think he was going to post any of this until the service went in to the crapper. if he got the help from the installer this would have never been an issue.
and as quick as his old turbo was sold and installed on another truck tells me its all about the money nothing else, i may be wrong but this is what i see.
FLAME SUIT ON AND FLACK JACKET.
JAKE.
and as quick as his old turbo was sold and installed on another truck tells me its all about the money nothing else, i may be wrong but this is what i see.
FLAME SUIT ON AND FLACK JACKET.
JAKE.
mlockner said:
cool thanks for the correction
jake
mlockner are you having the problems that moolie is describing for you ?
moolie it's obvious you're not going to get help from the installer, since money is no object to you, buy the guages and listen to what people are trying to tell you.
I've only seen a set of twins 2 times, i've rode in a truck with twins (just last weeknd) i know nothing about them, other than common sense.
Sit back relax, think things through, install pressure guages here and there, and ask questions according to your guage readings. Adjust, ReAdjust, and maybe change injectors. Who knows.
O and please shorten your sentences, alot of people want to help, nobody wants to put on their waders after a hard day at work. Catch my drift?
Curtis
moolie it's obvious you're not going to get help from the installer, since money is no object to you, buy the guages and listen to what people are trying to tell you.
I've only seen a set of twins 2 times, i've rode in a truck with twins (just last weeknd) i know nothing about them, other than common sense.
Sit back relax, think things through, install pressure guages here and there, and ask questions according to your guage readings. Adjust, ReAdjust, and maybe change injectors. Who knows.
O and please shorten your sentences, alot of people want to help, nobody wants to put on their waders after a hard day at work. Catch my drift?
Curtis
Will your installer weld in the hole for you?
A hole that size (kernel size) will not affect boost that much.
Why would it be melting the battery if the hole is on your cold pipe??? After a hard run I can touch my cold pipe and it is warm, but hot NO.
^^^^Couldn't agree more with that statement. One should seek CFM.
You have to remember that boost psi is just a measurement of restriction.
A hole that size (kernel size) will not affect boost that much.
Why would it be melting the battery if the hole is on your cold pipe??? After a hard run I can touch my cold pipe and it is warm, but hot NO.
^^^^Couldn't agree more with that statement. One should seek CFM.
You have to remember that boost psi is just a measurement of restriction.
I was just looking at your mods-
I still consider myself a newbie and info sponge when it comes to Diesels so have to ask- is your downloader and or Banks providing enough timing like a TST would for all the fuel you are stuffing in there? Could be a source for the high EGT's
I would be upset too on the 4hp increase but you may have reached the max of your fueling combination and that combo may not be the ticket at those levels.
You have the good basics- injectors & Fass so maybe its time to try a TST by itself keeping an eye on rail pressures and add a pressure only box if needed. Just some thoughts. .
BTW what Turbos are used in the DTT kit and what are they designed for?
I still consider myself a newbie and info sponge when it comes to Diesels so have to ask- is your downloader and or Banks providing enough timing like a TST would for all the fuel you are stuffing in there? Could be a source for the high EGT's
I would be upset too on the 4hp increase but you may have reached the max of your fueling combination and that combo may not be the ticket at those levels.
You have the good basics- injectors & Fass so maybe its time to try a TST by itself keeping an eye on rail pressures and add a pressure only box if needed. Just some thoughts. .
BTW what Turbos are used in the DTT kit and what are they designed for?
Moolie,
I would be upset if I spent $6,000 on twins and received the customer service you have gotten. I would expect a shop selling $6000 twins to have addressed the potential lack of fuel issue before accepting your money. They are professionals and you turned to them with an end result in mind.
With that being said, you have now turned to an excellent resource, the TDR members. They are trying to help. Let them. Take a deep breath and relax. Everyone is aware that you are upset. Now try to fix the problem. Focus on the end result. Keep your post short and to the point. There is alot of emotion in your posts. It is understandable but, try to set that aside for now. It will make it a little easier on the TDR members.
I hope everything works out for you.
I would be upset if I spent $6,000 on twins and received the customer service you have gotten. I would expect a shop selling $6000 twins to have addressed the potential lack of fuel issue before accepting your money. They are professionals and you turned to them with an end result in mind.
With that being said, you have now turned to an excellent resource, the TDR members. They are trying to help. Let them. Take a deep breath and relax. Everyone is aware that you are upset. Now try to fix the problem. Focus on the end result. Keep your post short and to the point. There is alot of emotion in your posts. It is understandable but, try to set that aside for now. It will make it a little easier on the TDR members.
I hope everything works out for you.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
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What Makes Us Tick?
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