EarthRoamer installs TripleLok

[JTBMC]

Count me in with ATS,

After speaking with Don Ramer, Kevin Goode, and Briar Hopper I've decided to go with the ATS transmission and will have the stage IV installed in 2 to 3 weeks as I to am breaking in to my Piggy Bank too.

TJ

 

[HomerDog]

YOU GO BILL!!!



A lot of people appreciate what you are doing and what you are about. Everyone will have their opinions about everything. Keep up the reporting and good luck on your journeys... ... Although I don't live there now, I grew close to you (Thornton)...





Dave

 

[GLASMITHS]

Lock-up=cooler temps?

Mr Earth Roamer-



Comparing what to what. I "had" an older BD t/c that stayed locked-up until almost wot in 3rd. Temps went up to 180-190

on long hills. Now I have an 89% t/c that unlocks at 80% throttle, and just back from a run to Phoenix (3000 miles) max temp 160



If you have high hp, I would have to agree that locked up is better. . Most owners are under 300rwhp, so we need some help near the top.

 

[StakeMan]

I have about 300 RWHP and my transmission never goes above 150 degrees on a hard pull.

 

[EarthRoamer]

Re: Lock-up=cooler temps?

Originally posted by GLASMITHS

I "had" an older BD t/c that stayed locked-up until almost wot in 3rd. Temps went up to 180-190

on long hills.

Here's my guess: If you were hitting ATF temps of 180-190, your lockup clutch was slipping. I had an older BD TC also (bought it in early 1999), and it generated LOTS of heat, especially when pulling a grade. I had to install an aux transmission cooler and a Mag-Hytec deep pan to keep the ATF temps down with the BD TC.



I'm seeing the same thing as Stakeman with my TripleLok. When I'm locked up with the TripleLok, my ATF temp never goes above 150 degrees.



I used to think I was locked up with my BD TC. Now that I've really experienced lockup with the TripleLok, I'm sure my old BD TC was doing a lot of slipping when I thought it was locked up.

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

bill



i have a new bd transmission, and when in lock up with my gcvw at 22k my out put line temp has never hit 140. now stop and go traffic is a different story. but once i'm on the highway in lock up my transmission guage won't move. it only goes down to 140. at one of my fill ups i checked it by holding my hand on the pan and it was warm to the touch but i could have held my hand on it all day. i just thought i would give you a comparison.



i am sponsored by bd.



jim

 

[Diesel Freak]

Interesting thread!



Keep us posted!









-Sponsored by BOC Edwards





AKA my wallet!

 

[NVR FNSH]

First of all I sure am glad I drive a 6spd. All this automatic/torque converter talk makes my head hurt



Second, I wish I had cajones to do what Bill is doing with the Earthroamer. Looks like a blast. I've followed the build-up of the Earthroamer from way back and I for one and thoroughly impressed by how the truck is set-up. I've been following the Turtle Expedition in FourWheeler since they were driving a Chevy and would love to see a side by comparsion of the the Turtle & Earthroamer. Different approaches to similar goals.



As far as the comment about not really 'using' the truck in Baja? I call BS on author of that post. I've done pit support for quads & buggies racing the Baja 500 & 1000 and driven all the way to La Paz on the highway and that was sketchy enough. I've also ridden dirt bikes in Baja a couple of times and the 'roads' turn to crap in a very short distance once off the main highways.



Keep up the great articles Bill.



Brian

 

[EarthRoamer]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

I've followed the build-up of the Earthroamer from way back and I for one and thoroughly impressed by how the truck is set-up. I've been following the Turtle Expedition in FourWheeler since they were driving a Chevy and would love to see a side by comparsion of the the Turtle & Earthroamer.

side by comparsion of a Cummins powered Ram and a Ford! That wouldn't even be fair!

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

As far as the comment about not really 'using' the truck in Baja? I call BS on author of that post. I've done pit support for quads & buggies racing the Baja 500 & 1000 and driven all the way to La Paz on the highway and that was sketchy enough. I've also ridden dirt bikes in Baja a couple of times and the 'roads' turn to crap in a very short distance once off the main highways.

Thanks Brian. I think it's easy to underestimate the challenges of Baja. It sure looks easy on the map!

 

[NVR FNSH]

OK, so don't 'compare' the engines as that's a black hole of opinion. I don't really mean a comparison per se - I just think it's interesting to read/hear the why's/how's of the decisions that were made on how to outfit the particular rigs. I really like both of the trucks and would love to have either one of them



Brian

 

[Pat@BD]

Now this post isnt to try to start anything, but I think we should try to compare apples to apples. The convertor Earthroamer tried was the early generation convertor. Its design has changed since then. By the way I enjoy reading your adventures. I would love to do that kind of thing.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Kantdrive55

I also just removed an early '99 BD t/c. It served me well for 70k.

I am also told that because the transmission temp went up to 180 on a long grade (6% or better, it was slipping)



IMHO, that all the Baja and mountain climbing he puts his vehicle thru is rough on everything. However, having said that, is it a reasonable test for equipment that 99. 99 % of the time is not used in that manner?



The previous posts by EarthRoamer and CUMINNTSRKN regarding temps got me to thinking. I have a spare AUTOMETER, so. I drove around in city traffic and never got over 125. So maybe I have been getting a high reading. That is in the cooler line, not pan or return line.

 

[EarthRoamer]

ATF Temps should stay low when locked up

Originally posted by CUMINNTSTRKN

bill



i have a new bd transmission, and when in lock up with my gcvw at 22k my out put line temp has never hit 140.

Jim,



It looks like we are in total agreement. If a torque converter is really locked up and not slipping, ATF temps will stay low. Clearly if you are seeing temps of 140 degrees with 22k loads, you are locked up.



GLASMITHS states in his post:

Originally posted by GLASMITHS



I "had" an older BD t/c that stayed locked-up until almost wot in 3rd. Temps went up to 180-190 on long hills.

Clearly something was generating this heat. Either the torque converter was in lockup but was still slipping, or it was in fluid coupling generating heat.



The old design BD torque converter that I took out of my truck generated lots of heat when in fluid coupling, and the lockup clutch slipped even with my 10,000 pound load. I've had no experience with BD's latest torque converter design.

 

[EarthRoamer]

Originally posted by kantdrive55

Now this post isnt to try to start anything, but I think we should try to compare apples to apples. The convertor Earthroamer tried was the early generation convertor. Its design has changed since then.

Pat,



The BD Torque converter I bought in 1999 and used for about 50,000 miles was one of BD's early designs with welded tabs, and a milled stator.



There are photos of the actual BD torque converter removed from my truck posted here:



Photo of old BD TC milled stator:

http://www.atsdiesel.com/atsu/atsu-stator.html



Photo of lockup clutch lining on my old BD TC:

http://www.atsdiesel.com/atsu/atsu-lockupclutch.html



Photo of old BD TC with welded covers:

http://www.atsdiesel.com/atsu/atsu-cover.html



I need to be very clear:

These are photos of the BD Torque Converter I bought and installed in the EarthRoamer in 1999. This is NOT BD's current TC design. The early torque converter designs from many companies simply weren't very good.



My suggestion for anyone who is running an old design low stall torque converter is to find out exactly what is in your truck. If I had known what I know now, I would have NEVER left for Baja with an old design torque converter in my truck. I got lucky this time.

Originally posted by kantdrive55

By the way I enjoy reading your adventures. I would love to do that kind of thing.

Thanks! It's a tough life, but someones gotta do it... Tell the gang at BD hello, you have a lot of good people there.

 

[EarthRoamer]

Originally posted by GLASMITHS

I also just removed an early '99 BD t/c. It served me well for 70k.

We expect 300,000 miles out of our Cummins engines. Shouldn't we expect more than 70k (or in my case 50k) miles out of our torque converters?

Originally posted by GLASMITHS



I am also told that because the transmission temp went up to 180 on a long grade (6% or better, it was slipping)

I still believe it was either slipping or was not in lockup. That heat has to be generated somewhere.

Originally posted by GLASMITHS

IMHO, that all the Baja and mountain climbing he puts his vehicle thru is rough on everything. However, having said that, is it a reasonable test for equipment that 99. 99 % of the time is not used in that manner?

I think the reason most of us buy a turbo diesel Ram is to pull or haul heavy loads. Yes, the expeditions I go on are rough, but not really any worse than someone pulling a 20,000 pound trailer over the mountains or across a desert. Once again, our Cummins engines handle our loads with ease, shouldn't we expect the same from our torque converters and transmissions?

 

[Bandit1]

with all this talk about locked transmission temps. to all of you ATS equiped trucks. what does your temp get to sitting in traffic while in drive on a warm day? jw

 

[StakeMan]

Mine has never been over 160 deg. with the probe in the pan. I was seeing 190 deg. with the factory TC. I do a lot of stop and go driving. I did 50,000 miles of it last year.

 

[EarthRoamer]

Originally posted by Bandit1

with all this talk about locked transmission temps. to all of you ATS equiped trucks. what does your temp get to sitting in traffic while in drive on a warm day? jw

That's a really good question, but unfortunately I don't have an answer yet. I've only had my TripleLok for a couple of months, and we haven't seen many warm days in Denver yet. I'll be heading out to May madness in a couple of weeks, so I'll have a chance to check the temps at idle in drive and will post my results.



Stakeman's ATF temps make sense to me given the design of the TripleLok stator. The TripleLok stator is optimized for acceleration off the line and getting the truck up to speed until the lockup clutch takes over.



Other torque converter designs rely on the stator through the entire speed range. One of the problems with this approach is that a tight coupling at idle results in high ATF temperatures if the truck is sitting stopped while in drive.



ATS discusses this on their web site at this link:

http://www.atsdiesel.com/atsu/atsu-select.html

 

[EarthRoamer]

Thanks

I just want to take a minute to thank everyone who has posted on this thread for keeping the conversation civil and informative. I believe we all benefit from threads with honest and fair discussions. We won't always agree, but by sharing our different viewpoints in a rational manner, and treating each other with respect we can all learn and make better decisions when we upgrade our trucks.

 

[azgearpro]

I have a 91% tc, and live in weather that can reach 120 deg in the summer. Temps dont get much more extreme than here in Arizona, and in bumper to bumper traffic the worse I have seen is 175 deg temps from the transmission. I really do enjoy the tight convertor, especially pulling 14k plus around.