EarthRoamer installs TripleLok

[Cummins Corvette]

I have a 91% DTT tc right now, and the temps in traffic are very bad. I remember the first time I pulled out into traffic just a few blocks from DTT. After about three or four minutes, I noticed the temp (in the out line) was at 220. My idle is not to high ~850 in neutral, and it still stalls every time I am not moving faster than walking speed and I let off the throttle fast. It is very hard to let off slow enough, especially when it is hot. It is very frustrating when trying to back in a trailer and have the engine stall every couple of seconds. Then, when sitting in traffic, I have to put it in neutral every time the car in front of me stops. It takes 3 minutes for the temp to go from 170 to 215 when sitting in heavy traffic, and the highest I have seen is 260 and going up fast. I don't hate it, but I am rather frustrated with it. It gets hot fast and stalls fairly often. Bill said to check my fuel pressure, which I did, and it is fine. This problem wouldn’t be as severe with the 89%, but then it would be even looser on the top end, which is another annoyance. I can't imagine having the 93%. IMO the 93% would be a nightmare for city driving, making it a race only tc.



These are only my experiences and opinions.



Chris (formerly CAnderson; boring name, eh?)

 

[Sky]

Hmm I have the DTT 91% and have never had a stall yet? I do alot of city driving also. Something doesnt sound right.

 

[redneckdr]

ATS plus

thanx for sharing the experience with us, bill. please keep us up to date as the break-in and the miles go by. there are a bunch of us who will be upgrading our autos in the next year or so. i know i will look forward to hearing about your experience, and i'm sure many others will also. enjoy, and be careful on your travels. !! God Bless... ... ...

 

[Bandit1]

i have the 89% and i love the tc, the highest temp i have seen in the out line was 210 in traffic. bill said that is nothing and not to worry about it, i am installing a 9" electric fan infront of the transmission cooler to blow some cooler air across it jsut when i am sitting in traffic. jsut wanted to try to get a feel for the differences in the ats tc and the dtt. thanks to all

 

[rrausch]

Like many here, I'm getting an excellent education in the inner workings of Automatics. Thanks to all who are trying to keep this civil.



So it looks to me like DTT's major contribution (And it is Major) was to come up with a strong fluid coupling component which is the tightest out there, and to design a strong stator. I've also come to the conclusion that there are some side-effects to tight fluid couplings like heat, higher line pressures etc. If I'm wrong somebody please correct me. It looks to me like the DTT tight fluid coupling doesn't need as strong a lock-up clutch, as a tight fluid coupling lets less engine RPM's slip through it. So far so good? A good question would be are high line pressures detrimental to the life of the transmission seals? Anybody know?



Now ATS seems to have taken a different approach. It looks to me like their approach doesn't need high line pressure or an extra-tight fluid coupling because of the nature of the Triple Lock. In other words, the ATS fluid coupling is tighter than stock, and their stator is better than stock of course, but the real bomb-proof part of the system is the triple lock-up TC itself and the system used to allow it to shift in lock-up if needed. To my way of thinking ATS gets around excessive heat AND excessive line pressure AND any question of the TC slipping. I like the idea and I like the logic behind it...

if I have understood it correctly.



Allow me to ask another question.

Lets say you are getting ready to drive over something like a curb. With DTT wouldn't the engine bog down, or does the DTT TC allow RPM's to build? I would think they can't build very much if the TC's are roughly 90% efficient. But is that enough? Maybe you don't drive over curbs, OK, how about at the lake, pulling a boat/trailer combo out of the water, up a steep ramp? Does the DTT allow the RPM's to come up enough to power the boat and truck up out of the water? Anybody know?



For the record, I do plan to go with ATS.

 

[Sky]

Good questions Im interested to hear the answers, Bill?

 

[EarthRoamer]

Originally posted by rrausch



Lets say you are getting ready to drive over something like a curb. With DTT wouldn't the engine bog down, or does the DTT TC allow RPM's to build? I would think they can't build very much if the TC's are roughly 90% efficient. But is that enough? Maybe you don't drive over curbs, OK, how about at the lake, pulling a boat/trailer combo out of the water, up a steep ramp? Does the DTT allow the RPM's to come up enough to power the boat and truck up out of the water? Anybody know?



For the record, I do plan to go with ATS.

rrausch, I think you've identified one of the biggest problems with the design of many aftermarket torque converters.



I can't speak for the DTT torque converter, but I can speak for the ATS TripleLok that's currently in my truck and the old design BD low stall torque converter that I took out of my truck.



The following paragraph is an excerpt from my transmission article that will be published in the next TDR:

I ran into this problem a couple of times with my original BD low stall speed torque converter. Once when I was on a loose gravel trail in Alaska, I was in four-wheel high range and I literally couldn’t get my truck to move. I had plenty of traction with none of the wheels spinning, but I couldn’t get moving. I couldn’t shift into low range since the truck wasn’t moving and I couldn’t get the truck to budge in high range. After a nervous twenty minutes, I finally managed to force a shift into four-wheel low range and get going again, but this was an unnerving event. It became my habit to shift into four-wheel low range anytime there was any possibility of coming across rough terrain–but something was clearly wrong. Another time I was pulling into a campground at Rocky Mountain National Park and I needed to back over a speed bump to let another truck pass. With the low stall speed torque converter, my truck made smoke but wouldn’t back over the small speed bump. Needless to say, I was extremely embarrassed that my 270 horsepower truck that develops over 500 foot pounds of torque couldn’t back over a 4 inch speed bump without shifting into four wheel low range! Too low of a stall speed can actually be worse than too high of a stall speed because with a big load, a “too low” stall speed converter can leave you unable to move.

One of the first things I tried with my TripleLok was to back up against a six inch curb and stop. With the transfer case in 2wd (high range) I gunned the throttle. The engine revved to almost 2000 RPM (max torque range) and the truck backed right over the curb. My old low stall speed torque converter never would have done this. I repeated the test going forward in (2wd high again), and once again it climbed right up the curb.



I'm really excited to get on a trail with my new TripleLok. I won't have to always resort to 4wd low, and when I do drop into 4wd low I will have incredible pulling power. I'm now much more confident in my truck's abilities.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by Sky

Hmm I have the DTT 91% and have never had a stall yet? I do alot of city driving also. Something doesnt sound right.

It is a 12v thing. The mechanical governor on the p7100 does not compensate as fast as the 24v computer. This only happens when I am stopped (or moving very slow) and I blip the throttle with a fast on-off motion. It stalls every time becuase the converter grabs too much at the bottom end. This is frusterating because I think it doesn't grab enough at the top end.



Chris

 

[GLASMITHS]

Cummins what?

CAnderson, did you have to select a Chebby name to go with it?



EarthRoamer, I just never had the same problem with power at any time. Maybe it was because my t/c was slipping so much



I was not having any specific problems. It was a feeling that it wasn't as powerful as before or something like that. So I did not want to break down in Baja (we are considering a trip there in the fall) and have to put the same thing back in, at a higher price than by DTT set up.



rrausch: I don't know what you deem excessive pressures; what the exact pressures in DTT and ATS valvebodys; however CCannon said in one of his posts back during the "wars" that the pressures "were turned up". It seems reasonable or you could not use the exhaust brake.



I checked my unlock to lock to unlock rpm on the old BD t/c and it was 350 rpm. On my new 89% it is 125 rpm. One mark on the tach. Others said 75 rpm with the 89. However I have the livestock valvebody and that may be the difference. But I love it, cuz it gives me another gear at the top, that gently increases the power Old people don't like a l ot of jerking around

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Re: Cummins what?

Originally posted by GLASMITHS

CAnderson, did you have to select a Chebby name to go with it?

Um, well, I didn't want to go with Cummins Viper because no matter what I do, my truck will never be that fast. Cummins Neon R/T? mmmmmmmmmmmm, no. lol

Chris

 

[GLASMITHS]

Caught between a Cummins and a hard plece

 

[JHansen]

Charger maybe-'Cuda perhaps-Challenger even... ... . but not Corvette man! Come on-we have real steel in our bodies!



JK-you gotta go with what works for ya... ...



coming from the guy who named his truck after a Rolls Royce.....

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Whatever, eh? It is better than CAnderson right?

 

[JHansen]

I'd change mine-but nobody would be able to figure out who I was... ... . hmmm... . would that be a bad thing?

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Can I jump in here a sec. ?

I just had my truck changed over to the 91%TC/Towing VB/New trans. by Bill.

I'm seeing at least 100*-150*F lower temps around town with lots of "light to light" driving. Right now the average running temp is about 150*F (approx. ) were as previously with the A518 (116,000Km serviced every 20K) I saw about 170*F.

So far the most I've been able to load it too is about 190*F and thats on a long pull (empty) in OD starting at around 50MPH with 8%-9% grade, and WOT working up to about 2500 RPM (ran out of hill at 85 Mph). ( EGT's are higher though)

My old trans/TC would have had me hit 235*+ on that same hill under same conditions/fueling/timing.

I haven't tried the "climb the curb" test yet, but I will, if it's of interest.

Since I don't have lock-up I don't have clutch pacs to cook/slip.

MY WOT shifts happen about 2850 RPM at this time and are solid as a rock.

I need to load it down with 2 or 3K on the back and try it out as well, since the TC does "draw down the engine".

Apologies if I've butted in.

FWIW.



Happy camper with my stuff. Bob

 

[Reddog1]

BushWakr,



I am interested. I would hope this thread would make as many comparisons as possible.



Theory is great, but until applied, it is only a bit better than an opinion.



EarthRoamer is obviously sharing his experience with early BD and current ATS. I appreciate his post.



When someone has a real application to share, please post it. I think opinions, theory and practical application each have value.





Wayne

 

[Strick-9]

Earthroamer,



The reason your BD tc wouldn't climb a curb was because the stock stator had been cut down to make it appear to have a lower stall speed. This manuver reduces torque multiplication. Thus no low end power.



There is a difference between a low stall converter and low torque mulitiplication.



You CAN have a low stall converter with HIGH torque mulitiplication.



Here's an example. My broke some part on my truck and needed to be trailered to the shop. I brought our gooseneck trailer w/ dovetail to load it up. I dropped the t-case in 4 low and rode the brakes as the truck climbed the 14° ramps up onto the trailer at idle. At idle!



This was a DTT 91%.



-Chris

 

[azgearpro]

Formely known as canderson, the reason your truck stalls is not the convertors fault but your gov springs that you have installed. I know you have pointed this out. They are adjusted to tight, you need to adjust them out aleast one click, and make sure each side reads the same reading when check by calipers.

 

[GLASMITHS]

These kind of posts is the main reason I joined the TDR



Thank you EarthRomer for your experiences. Also I have to agree with your assessment of the poor quality of some of the equipment placed on the Dodge. My DTT was about the same price as the old BD; hope it lasts a whole lot longer



Someone asked about the high pressures in DTT trannys. I believe this is addressed with the valvebody and uprate kit.

Some one correct me if that is wrong--------

 

[TKilgore]

Curb Test

OK, would someone with a DTT 89% and someone with a 91% please do the test and report the results. I really need to know.



Please do the test in forward gear using regular 2wd and also using 4H.



I would appreciate your doing this test and letting us know.



Thanks