EarthRoamer installs TripleLok

[Power Wagon]

There is precisely the same rpm drop between the gears, whether you have 4. 10 or 2. 43 or any other ratio.





The shorter the gears, the more rpm change per MPH.

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Todd,



Just remember that with DTT's systems we encourage our customers to update the transmission, not just slap in a TC. The way I look at it is you have a transmission that is half way out the door why put in an expensive TC. Yeah the TC might not failed but you need a transmission to make your truck go. There is alot more to doing a valve body than making a TC hold, you need the clutches in the transmission to hold, as well as the 2nd gear band. Believe me as a sales person I could make a lot more sales just telling everyone that all you need is a TC, then when the transmission fails, all I would have to say is "sorry sir you only have one of our TC's not transmissions, and the TC didn't fail so just send it back and I'll freshen it up and give you a deal on a transmission. " Look at the signatures of the members think how many transmissions we would have sold if I were to do that. Unfortunately I would be unemployed, and probably have several pi$$ed off TDR members hunting me.



I realize that one could claim that you don't need a VB if you have low HP or don't tow much, but then why would you buy upgrades because they wouldn't be necessary. I see that you aren't going to go over 450hp (Todd T), but say you have 400hp or even 300hp are the clutches going to hold? Is second gear going to hold? Are you willing to take the chance with your money, I wouldn't be. When driving down the road you wouldn't be thinking I just upgraded this, you'd be thinking I didn't upgrade the trans, and is it going to hold. Trust me I do it every day with my lift pump, everytime I hit the throttle I'm just waiting for the truck do die and take out the injection pump. It's not fun. I run Drug Pusher injectors, Comp, HX-40 and alot of Nitrous. , to make a long story short the lift pump is an easy fix going back into the transmission isn't and cost more when you are doing it for the second time. I know it may sound better to skip some steps, but are they the ones you really want to be skipping? You can always add power as money allows, I know that's what I do. Chrysler doesn't build your transmissions to hold 400hp or even less, they build it for the HP they come with. I know that it might sound like more money doing a DTT upgrade, but keep in mind what you are doing, upgrading what Chrysler built to handle less than 250hp.

 

[Fred Swanson]

Todd T, how long do you think your stock transmission will last behind 450 HP? Even 300 or 400 HP. Seriously, I hope you're not thinking the TC and a controller that forces lock-to-lock shifts is going to be good for a stock transmission.



Canderson stated on page 3 of this thread that the strain of lock-to-lock shifts is handled by the dampner springs and clutch packs.



What do you think is happening to the clutch packs. If the shifts feel smoother, guess what, your clutches are slipping, and they aren't going to like it for very long.



That's why the transmission has to be addressed as a unit.



Remember, Dodge didn't engineer these trannies to handle more than the Cummins is already making. Throwing in an expensive TC and forcing lockup is only transerring more power that the stock transmission was never built for. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what will die first. It more than likely won't be that expensive TC, but the original transmission.



Do you think you have a warranty on your transmission when you buy just a TC?



C-mon guys, alot of you have been down this path before, and it wasn't that long ago. Have you forgotten the results of FORCING Lockup?



EarthRoamer, I hope your still out there. Hopefully I'll see you in Vegas for MM02. Gotta check out that truck.

 

[Todd T]

Originally posted by Todd T

at this piont i"m thinking ATS converter and controller(couldnt find the price for DTT's). DTT trans kit and VB.

Fred read this again, "DTT trans Kit". that is the master rebuild kit for our trannies. goto their site and read what it comes with, then come back and address me.



I do plan a total rebuild, just not all from the same vendor and the labor is on me and my DC tech friend. having been a street racer in my younger years, i know the way to the back of an automatic.



thanks Stefan, it looks like you missed the same thing though. yours and ATS's VB's both do the same thing from the way i'm reading things. and i knew i have to rebuild the transmission. like i said I'm just layin in the grass watching at this point. no need to get defensive. if that converter lowers heat and holds up, I want it. we'll just have to wait and see



but your Dad's words from a few weeks ago are still haunting me that's why I'm just window shopping at this point.

 

[hammersley]

ATS Page all Black

I can't read anything on the ATS page -- it's all black! Anybody else experiencing that?

 

[Fred Swanson]

Todd T, I don't think I'm being defensive. I saw your post, and missed the end statement about using DTT's trans kit and VB. If you did the whole DTT setup, you'd have even more to give to Piers, he'd probably like ya for it, too. I can PM you the DTT controller price, too, if you'd like.

Just didn't want to see you make a big mistake. I know what is in their kits. Good luck on your decision, though.

There seems to be an awful lot of attention about how much heat is supposedly being generated by DTT's TC's.



Come down to Phoenix anytime in the summer, and I'll be happy to show you how they do in traffic in the heat. The temps here get very extreme.

 

[rrausch]

Fred, when you write about forced lockup shifts are you describing ATS?

Because my understanding is that the ATS trans is quaranteed for 65,000 miles irregardless of whether or not you shift locked to locked. To my way of thinking that must mean the ATS system has addressed the major problems associated with shifting locked, and they have solved them.



Now having said that, I am sure that shifting locked ALL the time WILL cause more wear on the trans, but its nice to know the ATS trans WILL handle the job if it is needed.



Personally, I think the ATS trans is going to be the next Allison!

 

[Jim Fulmer]

I have to concur what Stefan and Fred are talking about, I had a #8 plate in mine, 3K's then a lock switch and abused it even did some lock to lock shifts and when my transmission was torn down the 2nd gear band was fine but direct clutches were slipping, O/D clutches were blue and O/D enguagement spring was very weak, and who know what the converter was like, I'm sure glad I spent the extra money for a full rebuild.



Jim

 

[Strick-9]

Cummins Corvette,



Since you are now our resident expert on TC's, I have a question for you. You make some interesting statements about vortex vs. rotary flow.



What attribute of a converter, more specifically the stator, dictates when torque multiplication is over?



Can that attribute be modified with a stock stator? Can it be modified more with a custom stator?



If Piers installed your gov. springs and your truck dies when you blip the throttle, then he screwed up the install. I'm sure he will fix it for you. If he can't fix it then I'll go to May Madness and fix it for you.



The funny part is you said you were frustrated with your DTT converter because it stalls all the time. Then you came back and said it stalled when it was stock. Why do you think an ATS converter won't stall? Maybe I shouldn't help you and you can knock ATS as well for your poor running engine.



If you answer my first question, I'll fix your stalling.

-Chris

 

[GLASMITHS]

JimS. You missed something. I do not tow in OD. 3rd and GV. It is much easier to unlock the converter and make it over the hill than to shift down to 3rd and locked; less heat, no lugging.



JFulmer: You described the inside of MY transmission also at 75K. Also, there was this very large bearing, the inside race, didn"t look too good.



Cummins Corvette: I have to agree to most everything you say, simply because I don't know However, in a previous post you said that the torque dropped from about 1800to 2300 rpm.

Hope you are talking about the 12V The 24V is supposed to have a flat curve from 1600 to 2600, or there abouts.



Strick9: I think CC is just trying to convince some that his t/c is bad so he can get a new toy, IMHO

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by Strick-9

Cummins Corvette,



What attribute of a converter, more specifically the stator, dictates when torque multiplication is over?



Can that attribute be modified with a stock stator? Can it be modified more with a custom stator?



Why do you think an ATS converter won't stall? Maybe I shouldn't help you and you can knock ATS as well for your poor running engine.



-Chris

The time at which the converter stops multiplying torque is when the vortex flow gives way to rotary flow. You want to end torque multiplication sooner? Take the stator out. It will never do it in the first place.



So to directly answer your question, the more "open" the stator is to fluid flow, the sooner it will enter rotary flow, and be done with torque multiplication. This is why the DTT stator has blades that are relatively thin compared to stock, to let more fluid through and make a tighter rotary flow power transfer. If you take the stator out, you are in rotary flow right off the bat, and have no torque multiplication and hate your converter bad because you can't get going. This will make the stall of the converter as low as it is going to get without modification to the turbine and/or pump.



Can it be modified with the stock stator? Yep. Remove the blades.

Can it be modified more with a custom stator? Nope.



As for the stalling, the tighter the converter is, the more it will ENHANCE the occurrence of stalls. I am not blaming the stalling on the DTT stuff, only saying that it made the problem much worse. And no, Piers couldn't (or else he didn't want to) fix it with an adjustment of the springs. He just bumped up the idle a bit, and that took care of it. An unwanted side affect of this was that the higher idle made the converter generate more heat when stopped in drive. So as long as I have a tight converter and a stalling problem, I must choose which I hate the least: the transmission getting hot quickly in traffic, or stalling all of the time.



Piers was right there, just finishing the adjustments to the truck, when I was complaining about the stalling problem. He just raised the idle until it stopped stalling when I blipped the throttle. When he was through, the idle in neutral was 950 rpm. So if you are saying that it is a problem with the adjustment of the springs, then I guess you are smarter or have more ambition than Piers.



If I get a converter that is looser at the bottom, then it will reduce the stalling problem, and it will make less heat when stopped in drive.



Any more questions?



Other Chris

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by GLASMITHS



Cummins Corvette: I have to agree to most everything you say, simply because I don't know However, in a previous post you said that the torque dropped from about 1800to 2300 rpm.

Hope you are talking about the 12V The 24V is supposed to have a flat curve from 1600 to 2600, or there abouts.



Strick9: I think CC is just trying to convince some that his t/c is bad so he can get a new toy, IMHO

Yep, I was thinking of my 12v.



As far as this just being a ploy to get new toys? No. LOL. good one!

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Now as far as what Stefan and Fred said about upgrading the whole transmission, I completely agree. I would definitely do the whole thing as evidenced by the fact that this is what I did when I went up to DTT, the whole enchilada. If you are going to do something, do it right the first time. This is not to say that I think I didn’t do it right the first time by choosing DTT. I only think that there is something “more right” now, that wasn’t an option last August when I went to DTT. I don’t regret getting my DTT stuff; it is a very good transmission, but it could be improved upon.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Back up a little

Cummins Corvette: In a previous post you gave an example of 350 rpm (or thereabout) increase when going from locked to unlock. Is this your t/c? Or just an example?



My Old BD did that It was too much. My DTT 89% is 125 rpm, just enough to keep the speed up. So what am I loosing in that 125 rpm? Is there something there I don't see?



thanks

 

[Fred Swanson]

rrausch, the next Allison! Your kidding, right? It doesn't matter who's transmission it is, if you shift locked to locked, you're going to either break something, or wear the clutches out prematurely.



How many times much this be written, this isn't rocket science, just common sense, and basic understanding of how the Dodge transmission works.



Now about warranties, we'll just have to wait and see how their transmissions fair. I'm sorry, no amount of handfeeding information to post here by someone who won't listen to what people are telling him, isn't enough to convince me of this fixed advertising. Please don't talk past your expertise, and pass it off as gospel.



Surely CC, you're not banking on a freebee. If your truck stalled before DTT components were installed, don't blame it on the TC. And you think the new TC will be any different?



If most of what is being said here is not understandable, does that mean it is the truth. C'mon you all are smarter than that. Do your homework, don't believe everything you see written here as being the absolute truth. Ask questions, and research before you spend your hard earned money. But I shouldn't have to tell you that, you guys know better.



Jim Fulmer, precisely my point. At least somebody is listening.

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Here is a comparison of the input shafts between the Duramax/Allison and the one out of the Cummins/47RE and the Cummins/47RE shifting locked to locked. This is the reason we sell cryo'd and billet shafts.



#ad
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[Bob Wagner]

Thanks alot Stefan

I can just imagine the post to he had on the dieselpage





Our Shaft is be than their's **LOL**



See you guys tomorrow

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Re: Back up a little

Originally posted by GLASMITHS

Cummins Corvette: In a previous post you gave an example of 350 rpm (or thereabout) increase when going from locked to unlock. Is this your t/c? Or just an example?



My Old BD did that It was too much. My DTT 89% is 125 rpm, just enough to keep the speed up. So what am I loosing in that 125 rpm? Is there something there I don't see?



thanks

The amount of rpm drop depends on what rpm the transmission input is at and the amount of power being fed into the tc at that time. Let's take my full throttle rpm drops for an example. When the transmission input is at 2000 the full throttle drop to lockup is exactly 400 rpm to lockup. When the transmission input is at 2500 rpm I have a 350 rpm drop to lockup. The lower drop at higher rpm is due to the converter "tightening up" at higher rpm and because the engine is making less torque at 2850 rpm than it makes at 2400 rpm. Part throttle comparisons are worthless for the most part because there are too many variables. At full throttle the main variable is horsepower, and makes the comparison a little easier.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by Fred Swanson

rrausch, the next Allison! Your kidding, right? It doesn't matter whos transmission it is, if you shift locked to locked, you're going to either break something, or wear the clutches out prematurely.

I agree with you here. Don, Clint and others are doing this and claiming no failures whatsoever (other than when they were in the first part of their learning curve). Has anyone ever seen the clutches wear out? The only failure of clutches I know of is when they slip to long and burn up. So if they are just full of crap, and it breaks, they are going to get hammered by those of us who have their setup.



Remember, they are offering a 3 year 65,000 mile warranty with NO LIMIT ON HORSEPOWER!!!! That shows some extreme confidence in what they are doing. And if they don't honor their warranty, you bet your @#$ you will hear about it.

Originally posted by Fred Swanson



If your truck stalled before DTT components were installed, don't blame it on the TC. And you think the new TC will be any different?

The tighter the tc is the worse stalling will be right?

The tighter the tc is the more heat it will make while stopped right?



I will have my ATS tc made NOT as tight at low rpm as the DTT converters are (remember, they will make the stator to your specs)



Yes, my truck did stall before the DTT converter was installed, but I turned my idle up a bit and that fixed it. After that, I had NO STALLING PROBLEMS. When the DTT converter was installed, I had to turn it up more. This caused the converter to make to much heat at a stop (again, not a problem with a looser converter).



Hey, I am not slamming DTT here, at least that is not my intention. I am trying to explain WHY I am going to an ATS setup, because people want to know.

Originally posted by Fred Swanson



If most of what is being said here is not understanable, does that mean it is the truth.

What is not understandable?

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay

... ... and the Cummins/47RE shifting locked to locked.

Shifting locked to locked with a transmission designed to do that? Did that come out of an ATS transmission? I don't think so. The only time anyone can claim the ATS transmission shifting locked to locked will under any circumstances break this shaft or any other component is when it happens in an ATS transmission.