Employers and smoking in Michigan

[BarryG]

Was watching the news this morning and heard about this. I may be wrong on some of the facts. As well, you know the news doesnt always include all the pertinent info.



Some companies in Michigan are going one step farther in no smoking at work. They are going to prohibit you from smoking at all. Even when you are not at work. No smoking at home, in your car, out of state etc etc. They will start having nicotine drug tests. They claim that their insurance rates are sky high and this is a method to help curb those costs and all will benefit.



Now I am against smoking but feel it is a personal choice. I have no problem with smokers paying higher insurance premiums nor do I have a problem with a smoke free work environment or even in public places where non-smokers could/would be forced to deal with second hand smoke. Have no problem with the outrageous taxes they have placed on smokes in some parts of the country (smoke till your lungs fall out for all I care as long as I dont have to deal with it. I am no fanatic about it all though). Apparently Michigan Law will currently allow this. In Colorado, where I live the employers would not be able to do this under the current law.



What do you guys think about this? Where would it end? No drinking, no eating fast food because it makes you obese, no driving a gas/diesel vehicle because of pollution only electrics, skiing you might hit a tree, cant own a gun because people get killed with guns etc etc etc... There are many things out there that either are or at some point in time may be considered unhealthy. Not illegal but unhealthy. What do you think about your employer being able to regulate your private life away from work?

 

[TSpecht]

I absolutely think it's ridiculous. Smoking is a personal choice and the employer should have no say in what activities you take part in while you're not on company property or away on company business.



If this is allowed to continue, the employer can say you can't take part in recreational activities including ATV use citing potential dangers, or skiing, or virtually anything you might be able to do where potential hazards exist. I hope this practice gets shot down quickly and forcefully.

 

[I-6DZL]

I'm totally against it also for the reason's stated by the both of you. If the insurance is kicking the company where it counts, then the logical thing is to have the smoking employees pay a percentage of their insurance. Another thought is to just quit smoking. But it's a ****** move any way you look at it.



Curtis

 

[tractorface]

Ban em!

I have had the same opinion for years. It is a personal choice, but to be honest I have changed my mind. The damn things should be outlawed. Why you ask, Because it seems no one can use their freakin ashtrays anymore. I constantly see idiots throwing the damn things out the window of the car. Really makes my blood boil. Next time you pull up to a stop light look out the window and check out all the BUTTS all over the place. It is outrageous that the rest of us have to deall with that mess. Sad but it seems very few smokers have any care about the rest of us.

 

[Jeff Clark]

It's a personal choice to smoke as much as it's a personal choice for an employer to say they don't want you working there if you smoke. If you want to smoke, don't work for somebody that doesn't allow it.

 

[loncray]

I agree with Tractor - if you smoke, use your dang ashtray! And I also agree with Jeff - it's a personal decision of the company to not allow smoking, so if you smoke, don't work there. It IS a personal decision to smoke, but it's one that interferes with other's rights to breathe clean air.



Regardless of whether you agree with it or not, I don't think it'll be shot down anytime soon - as I understand it, Michigan is an at-will state, which means they can fire folks for smoking, they can fire them for being ugly, they can fire them for any number of reasons. Legally (if not necessarily morally) they should be on firm ground.

 

[tractorface]

Allright

Now if we can get CF and maybe Sledpuller to agree on the ashtray thing maybe Hell WILL freeze over and the world will be a much better place :-laf :-laf

 

[CWebster]

If they can prohibit you from smoking on your own time... . then its not your own time, it's the companies time... therefore they should still be getting their hourly wage, right? Wonder how that would compare to the difference in insurance premiums (hourly wage+benefits x 24hrs/day vs. the increase in ins. premiums). Also, are they going to nicotine test management? Owners? Seems like there might not be enough people to man the ship when they are done.

 

[loncray]

Hmm - interesting thought but I don't think it will fly. I'm not allowed to drink on the job, and that includes up to a reasonable time before I come to work. I'm obviously not getting paid before 8:30 in the morning, but I can't be imbibing the Captain Morgans at 7:00 in the morning. Also, the insurance the company pays for covers you 24 hours a day, regardless of your work time. It is an interesting thought though.

 

[CWebster]

Smoking a cigarette and having a drink are not comparable. Smoking does not impair your ability to function, drinking does... . The company does not pay for your insurance 100% (least not any that I know) or your copays, so you could argue that the employee paid portion is for off clock, and the company paid portion "on the clock" (unless the company covers all of the insurance with 0 out of pocket by the employee). Regardless, another money making adventure for the lawyers in the state of Michigan.

 

[klenger]

My $0. 02. While I dispise cigarette smoke, as long as smoking is legal, I think it's going too far to discriminate because of it. OTOH, I do not think that compaines should allow smokers "unlimited smoke breaks", but confine non-smokers to thier workstations.

 

[GFritsch]

I don't smoke. Don't like people smoking around me. I feel anyone in their right mind who smokes should quit. Smoking creates health problems for our society.



As strong as my feeling are about smoking, this is AMERICA. What someone does outside their job that isn't illegal or casting a negative image on the company is none of anyones freeking business. Riding my motorcycle is dangerous, so is mountain biking, snowboarding etc.



Whats next, we monitor peoples diets, require a certain amount of excercise, require a screening of family history. Give me a break. I have a feeling this story isn't true, or it would be all over the news. Sounds like a great way for a company to incure some legal fees in excess of those health coverage rates.

 

[Jeff Clark]

Nobody's saying you can't smoke on your own time. You can smoke all you want. All they are doing is making it legal for a company to say if you smoke, we don't want you working here. I don't smoke either, but I support anyone's right to smoke. Here in Dallas they recently passed a ban on smoking in all restuarants. Dumbest thing they ever did. Proponents say that "waiters and waitresses shouldn't have to work in places with all that smoke. " If they don't want to work around all that smoke, they need to find another line of work or find an establishment where the OWNER has a no-smoking policy.

 

[tractorface]

Henry Ford

I remember reading something about Henry Ford that sounds similar to this Michigan Company. Back in the Model T days when he was a giant he insisted that his employees live in certain areas, shop at certain stores. He monitored what they ate etc. all ti insure his cars were of the quality he was looking for.

If we are truely free so are the owners of bussinesses. Why can't they pick and choose employees using any criteria they like. The employees are free to go find a job somewhere else or start their own bussiness if they like. I see NOTHING wrong with it. If the courts stop it, they are ruling against freedom.



Why do people feel they are intitled to certain things when it comes to work. If you don't like the rules find another job. Lawyers have really screwed up people's heads.



Funny to see all the posts about how unfair it is and this is America. Think about it

 

[loncray]

But Jeff, they ARE saying you can't smoke on your own time - not if you want to be employed by their company.

 

[tractorface]

Don't understand the problem with that . Are Bussiness owners not as free as the rest of us??? What does the time of day have to do with anything?



That almost implies that my employer owns me for the hours I am paid, which is far from the truth. We have a bussiness relationship, I work to make the bussiness money and they pay me for that. As long as both of us remain satisfied our relationship is intact.



Let's say this company in Michigan loses it's star employee, the one with the secret recipe or whatever, bet they let him smoke whatever he wants. Its all about who needs who more when it comes to rule making. That is if we are truely free.

 

[Jeff Clark]

But Jeff, they ARE saying you can't smoke on your own time - not if you want to be employed by their company.

The way I have read previous posts, people are making it sound like the state has outlawed smoking and that's not the case. If an employer wants to make it a smoke-free staff, they ought to have that right. If smoking is that important to someone, they can find another job.

 

[klenger]

I live in Pima CO AZ, and smoking is banned in all resturants. I totally support it and it's wonderful to be able to go out to eat and sit anywhere in the resturant and not have to deal with 2nd hand smoke.



Note that in a previous post I mentioned that I do not support a total smoking ban for employees of a business.

 

[GFritsch]

I guess the bottom line is that anyone who would work for a company that would lend itself to intrude into the off hours lives of their employess deserves the distinction of sell out. No amount of compensation would compromise my lifestyle, nor would I wish to help the seemingly never ending "big brother" syndrome that is fast covering our individual rights.



AM I REALLY DEFENDING SMOKERS HERE ??? URGGGG



I do however understand the very real neccesity to protect my own personal rights by protecting the rights of others. Something about united we stand and .....

 

[Dane]

It's their company, so why can't they decide? We all know smoking causes health issues - right?



I don't care if you want to smoke, it's your choice. BUT, it's also the company's choice if they want to employ you.