Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) enclosure for pusher pump

[keioga]

Just want to say english and spelling weren't my favorite subjects. There is alot of reading and information when you put lift pump in on the search function on this site. Have spent alot of time reading and not posting. It really sucks that we have to come up with some kind of solution for this lift pump delivery system on are trucks, which really is a dodge and cummins problem, but since we bought the truck it is now are problem. I have a 2002 with 26000 miles and as of now my pressures are ok 15psi at idle 13 cruise, but as all of you know it's a matter of time where and when. After reading the pros and cons fass bigger banjos bypass this, it all comes down to a stupid lift pump located to far from the tank. Being I dont have a lot of time and money I want to protect my investment. The pusher pump will have to do. I live in salt country and was wondering if mounting the pump in a stainless junction box would work? Maybe keep sound down and elements out. Does the pump need air to keep cool or will it be ok enclosed. The pump will be the carter 4600

 

[jjohn]

keioga

In my opining all you need to do is protect your electrical contacts on the bottom of the pusher. I have thought about putting some sort of a release agent, oil film or some such thing on the electrical posts on mine and then a coating of clear silicone.



My pusher, inside the frame immediately in front of the fuel tank on a short bed is well protected as it is with the transfer case skid plate.



If you want to keep sound levels down insulate the pump bracket with rubber. encasing the pump with metal to metal won't help.



My pump doesn't bother me a bit, when i hear it, and i do, it just reminds me that my pump is cooled and lubed, especially without banjo bolts.

 

[mediccummin]

Why a pusher and not just the LP move down by the tank. IMO with the pusher now you have 2 pumps to worry about. I moved my pump down by the tank, mounted it to a bracket I welded up and have had no problems yet and have good numbers. 15idle, 14 cruise and 11wot. with comp and DD2's. There are many opinions on this and you will get alot of responses but I think this can be done without much problem. I went the more expensive route and use SS line and Aeroquip fittings, but you can do it cheaper. Good luck with whatever you decide. And is well worth the time and effort.



Took me until my 3rd pump to do this... ... see rig pics.

 

[jjohn]

Originally posted by mediccummin

Why a pusher and not just the LP move down by the tank. IMO with the pusher now you have 2 pumps to worry about. I moved my pump down by the tank, mounted it to a bracket I welded up and have had no problems yet and have good numbers. 15idle, 14 cruise and 11wot. with comp and DD2's. There are many opinions on this and you will get alot of responses but I think this can be done without much problem. I went the more expensive route and use SS line and Aeroquip fittings, but you can do it cheaper. Good luck with whatever you decide. And is well worth the time and effort.



Took me until my 3rd pump to do this... ... see rig pics.

And of course this is the debate. I also did the Aeroquip fuel line, push on style first, without the pusher. My brand new lift pump started out strong and slowly started dropping off.

I read a posts where the pusher/stock pump has gone 60K+ miles and counting as a team.



I added the pusher and bought plumbing for a bypass route around the pusher with a one way check valve just in case. also my pusher is on a separate electrical circuit, relay controlled direct to the battery with a in cab switch to shut it off for whatever reason. like multiple heating grid cycles in the really cold weather.



I know guys have had great luck with the relocation approach also. I chose what I felt was the best of both camps?



Fass was to big for my short bed mounting locations. I didn't like the outside the frame mounting to much eather, I'm curious about wildcat Diesels new PE pump that is supposed to be available soon?

Good luck.



mediccummin I looked at your pics... Very nice work. I'm impressed.

 

[keioga]

medicummins that is a nice install. I give this forum alot of credit as there are alot of great ideas out there, the pusher is where I will start as there are alot things I like about it. I dont mind increasing the pressure a little to the vp44 and a little reduntancy in adding the pusher into the system, also jjohn I like the idea of the bypass around the pusher.

 

[Mad Bomber]

Pusher pump

JJohn, there some dealers that have stopped selling the PE pumps because too many failed. BTW I had 2 that failed on me.

 

[rweis]

I did a system approach to the fuel SYSTEM.



1. RACOR 690 pre lp 10 micron filter (clean particulates and water seperator)

2. lp to the frame (mounted on a 3" x 4" (1/4" angle iron 3" long)

3. AN-6 lines and Aeroquip all the way from tank to VP (I would do AN-8 if I had to do it again. AN-8 MUCH easier to work with and 1/2" line to boot)

4. Mallory 4307 bypass regulator set at 12 psi to keep lp check valve closed. I think the Cummins pump may just be ok if you move it. Definitely carry a spare at all times.

5. Dielectric grease the lp contacts

6. Stanadyne PF every tank

7. Gauge the fp psi up toward the VP since that is the heart of the system.



Bob Weis

 

[jjohn]

Originally posted by rweis

I did a system approach to the fuel SYSTEM.



4. Mallory 4307 bypass regulator set at 12 psi to keep lp check valve closed.

Bob Weis

Bob brings up a good point. I can watch my overflow check valve opening/closing by the pressure reading. I have wondered what if any issues this may present down the road. I am going to talk to the Bosch shop who put in my VP$$ and ask his opinion.

 

[mediccummin]

Thanks for the compliments guys. And in no way am I dogging the pusher pump idea at all. I to was going that route but decided to try this first. Like I said there are allot of options and cost, but obviously the stock location is wrong, and that has been prove. And because of this site we all can learn and build from it, that to has been proven.



I think another filter pre LP is a big plus, I used the same set up as Rweis the Racor 690, you can get different micron filters, a water sensor and heater set up as well.



I also welded up another skid plate for the pump just in case, not just for rocks etc but for water spray protection, just a bit more reassurance. Later... ... ... ... .

 

[rweis]

I figuered the check valve is a 10 cent part that can NOT be manipulated mechanically within the pump, so I manipulated it mechanically outside of the pump.



10 cent orafice and ball on a spring jeprodizes a $2000 VP, not on my truck!



IF the check valve orafice gets clogged, the ball does not seat just right, the 2 cent spring gets weak or does not center correctly on the 5 cent ball, the VP is in real jeprody.



So I went about trying to figuer out how to keep the check valve from EVER functioning. Gary had a thread about a year ago now that he or someone tried to drill the lp frame and tap a screw that would hold the check valve ball firmly seated. They could not repeatedly duplicate the feat. If you take the lp apart you destroy its functionality.



So I use a bypass regulator after the lp set to a low enough pressure so that the check valve ball never comes off the seat, the spring is never flexed a couple of thousand to hundreds of thousands of times and holds the ball where it should be.



My point is to get rid of one of the probable culprits of failure.



The other things in the list are there to do the same thing - get rid of one or more of the probable culprits of failure. Like the RACOR 690. Get the crap before it gets to the lp. The lp vanes must seat perfectly, no crap in the retaining slots, on the chamber wall, between the vane and the chamber or it is not going to be as good as it can be. And IF your check valve is operating, a little crap gets lodged in the oriface and guess what does not work right?, the 10 cent check valve. Now the $2000 VP is getting 5psi because the 10 cent check valve has a bit of crap in its orafice, or on the spring, or on the ball. You do not know, and no way to find out.



IF I have to replace the lp after the spare I carry, I am going to get a lp that I can clean out the check valve externally.



It is not perfect for sure. Just trying to get the odds more to my favor.



Bob Weis

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I'd be afraid a box enclosure would simply act the same as the body of a guitar, and sorta amplify the racket from the already noisy pump inside. The homemade bypass I added to my Carter pusher reduced head pressure enough to really quiet the pusher down, as well as to lower overall system PSI to a more comfortable level. I think the skidplate approach would probably provide good protection, while not affecting noise - the pusher doesn't particularly need ventilation, it is cooled by the fuel as is the stock LP...

 

[DTangstrom]

What kind of pressures do you all see with a Carter pusher and stock lift pump.

 

[Mad Bomber]

How much

Originally posted by DTangstrom

What kind of pressures do you all see with a Carter pusher and stock lift pump.

I've been running the 2 carters for 3 years now and I'm running about 20 to 22 LBS at idle. I can suck it down to about 15 LBS at 5X5 WOT. Take in mind that I also have A-N -6 lines from tank to injection pump with all banjos gone.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Yeah - what MB said... Only *I* didn't spend all the extra loot for the fancy pipes and fittings...

 

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

Yeah - what MB said... Only *I* didn't spend all the extra loot for the fancy pipes and fittings...

Gary, are you still using the stock banjos?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Gary, are you still using the stock banjos?"



YUP!



Puny little suckers, ain't they!

 

[Mad Bomber]

pusher

Gary, have you lost any VP's or LP?

 

[JR2]

I have run my lift pump back by the tank for a couple of years now. I live in Alaska where salt is king in the winter and I see no corrosion on the pump at all. Heck its not even very dirty back there. Unless you drive in a lot of slop in the winter I would not worry to much.

 

[DTangstrom]

Does your pusher pump run on 12v ignition full time. I know the lift pump will cycle off if you just bump the starter. Wondering how to go about wiring it, so it isn't running if the engine is not running, but the key is on.

 

[Mad Bomber]

Pusher pump

Originally posted by DTangstrom

Does your pusher pump run on 12v ignition full time. I know the lift pump will cycle off if you just bump the starter. Wondering how to go about wiring it, so it isn't running if the engine is not running, but the key is on.

I ran a hot source from battery and a relay wire to the stock pump. It works just a the stock pump does.