Exxon caught red handed raping the public!!!!!!

[Big MAK]

The fact remains, however, that #2 heating oil and #2-D diesel fuel are both fighting for the same distillation "cut". The primary difference is that #2-D diesel fuel undergoes finer filtration and has to meet cetane rating and cloud point specifications that don't apply to #2 heating oil. Nevertheless, Ken's point is valid - for a given amount of crude oil feedstock, production of more heating oil in the winter results in less of that distillation "cut" available to produce #2-D diesel fuel.



Rusty

Hmm; we'll have to disagree. I believe the process to be like seperating cream from straight-from-the-cow milk. You have your grades that you cut out / seperate. Perhaps pushing the fuel oil distillation to favor heating oil weights it in some minor way but very little -- not to the point of causing a shortage of the other. Especially since we're talking about increased volume here. You process more milk to get more cream you'll have more skim milk too. Same deal for fuel oil (heating oil + "diesel").

 

[MCummings]

Now that is someone I want to live next door to, NOT, stop and think of what you are saying, all it is going to take is for one fire at someones home making Bio Fuel and that will be the end of that deal.

NOT IN MY BACKYARD





Is Exxon's profits really driving the price of oil up?



Give me some figures, and I'll run some numbers for you, or even you could do it...



What percentage did Exxon profits increase from 2004 to 2005?



What percentage did fuel prices increase?



If these percentages are the same. We are getting screwed. If taking in account inflation, supply/demand and the risk of loosing imported oil because of war or natural disaster, the percentage is (less than two-digit percent) then I think we are okee dokay, and that's business.



We need these numbers... (attn Googlers )



2004 Profits of ExxonMobile =

2005 Profits of ExxonMobile =

2004 Avg U. S. price of Fuel =

2005 Avg U. S. price of Fuel -

2004 to 2005 U. S. Inflation % =

Amount of fuel U. S. produced in 2004 =

Amount of fuel U. S. produced in 2005 =

Amount of fuel U. S. consumed in 2004 =

Amount of fuel U. S. consumed in 2005 =





Lets start there and see what we come up with... .





Merrick

 

[RustyJC]

To offer an admittedly oversimplified example, #2-D diesel is #2 heating oil that's been subjected to finer filtration as well as testing for cetane rating and cloud point. If I start out in the summer with 10 gallons of #2 heating oil, I might run 8 gallons of it through the process to qualify it as #2-D diesel and sell the other 2 gallons as #2 heating oil. Now, when winter rolls around and I have that same 10 gallons of #2 heating oil and a market demanding 5 gallons of it for home heating, I suddenly only have 5 gallons (instead of 8) to run through the #2-D diesel fuel process.



If you doubt the chemical similarities of #2-D diesel and #2 fuel oil, take a read HERE.



Rusty

 

[Jeremiah]

I (snip)



stop and think of what you are saying, all it is going to take is for one fire at someones home making Bio Fuel and that will be the end of that deal. (snip)

This is what I'm talking about, John, you don't know what you're talking about. Diesel fuel is not gasoline. It can be handled quite safely. If you don't believe it pour some on the ground and try to light it. It's hard to make it burn unless it's under pressure (as in a diesel engine).

 

[BigPapa]

Biodiesel made at home... ... ... ... It won't take long for this to get the attention of the big boys and they'll do something about what they sell.

I tell you whos attention you'll get... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... . the REVENUERS!

It's called regulation. I worked for an electric utility and we have been regulated for years. De-regulation doesn't work well (look at California and enron),they raped customers with outrageous rates, false outages, and pure GREED. The exact same thing Big oil is doing... .

That was my point when I said this:

What if the electric companies operated on this same principle? Oil is as much of a need as electricity. Humanity has survived a lot longer without electricity than it has oil or fuel. Government regulates the electric companies and keeps them from operating on this same principle and I haven’t been sent a “Commy Club” membership card yet. The country will shutdown just the same whether you stop electricity or fuel. Matter of fact, it would probably shut down quicker if you stopped the supply of fuel.

Scott

 

[Jeremiah]

Road tax on kitchen grease?

I tell you whos attention you'll get... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... . the REVENUERS!

I don't think so. There are too many people doing it and the revenue boys haven't said a word about it. I can't cite the law but I think it pertains to gasoline and diesel fuel. I doubt there is a road tax on McDonalds grease. Yet.

 

[EEdmondson]

Everyone believes something... I believe I'll go have a dark ale.

 

[klenger]

I prefer a cold draft lite.



Does anyone know off hand what the typical profit is per gallon of gas/diesel that an oil campany makes (not including all the profits and taxes by the borkers, distributers, retail, etc. )? I suspect that it isn't all that much, and if the oil companies sold it at cost, the price would only drop a few cents / gallon.

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

You can buy from other oil companies. People don't stick together anymore but if they did and nobody bought from Exxeon they would have to lower their prices. Then others would lower theirs to compete. If the environmentelist would get real and allow drilling in Anwar and off-shore it would lower our dependence on foreign oil and their price would go down too. I remember 19. 9 for diesel and reg. gas in 1966 and I also remember people complained.

 

[Sled Dog]

"Gee, if oil was $6. 00 a barrel in 1986, I wonder why gas wasn't 30 cents a gallon?"



Well, it costs about $4 to transform 1 barrel of oil into 19. 4 gallons of gasoline. This is about $0. 21 a gallon just to make the stuff, no transportation, etc. (increased fuel costs for transportation to the gas station, anybody?) You do the math.



There is no such thing as a "barrel of oil". It is a unit of measure like a pound. A barrel of oil is 42 gallons. A "drum" is 55 gallons. A single barrel of oil produces 19. 4 gallons of gasoline.



Mr. Duramax, riddle me this: what weighs more; a pound of feathers or a pound of lead?



Here is the typical breakdown in gallons per barrel of oil (WTI):



Gasoline 19. 4

Distillate Fuel Oil 9. 7 (Includes both home heating oil and diesel fuel)

Kerosene-Type Jet Fuel 4. 3

Coke 2. 0

Residual Fuel Oil 1. 9 (Heavy oils used as fuels in industry, marine transportation, and for electric power generation)

Liquefied Refinery Gases 1. 9

Still Gas 1. 8

Asphalt and Road Oil 1. 4

Petrochemical Feedstocks 1. 1

Lubricants 0. 5

Kerosene 0. 2

Other 0. 4



Please note; not all crude oils are the same. Middle eastern oil is quite "heavy" so you get less gallons of fuel and more road tar. On the other hand, "West Texas Intermediate", (what I produce and sell) the benchmark U. S. crude oil is very light and makes the 19. 4 gallons of gasoline.



Oh darn, the environmentalist wackos don't want us (and have been relatively successful) to drill for oil in our own backyard. You want to talk about a conspiracy "to rape the public"? The democrats and the wacko's are a huge part of the problem for John Q. Public.



By the way, I am drilling 4000 foot oil wells on salt domes in Brookshire, Texas. Gonna drill about 25 oil wells this year. The landowner gets a 30% Royalty. For those of you who drive a Duramax, that means I pay 100% of the drilling and operational costs of the well and only get 70% of the production; the land owner gets 30% of all the money that comes out of the ground. The great State of Texas gets about 8% in taxes (who's eating my pie?) I have drilling partners, so I don't get all the money, and of course there are those pesky dry holes. However, I can darn sure run the air conditioner full blast to keep my beer from getting warm!



50 barrels of oil per day (one well) @ today's prices = about $25,000 per month for the happy landowner (a Houston trial lawyer, go start a new thread on how the lawyers screw us, err, the little guy. hehe... ... ... ... )



Smoke'm if you got'em. (Oops, can't do that either!)



Anyway, read it and weep; the end of cheap oil is here.



Happy Motoring!

:-laf The point I was making is, thats what the price per barrel in say 1976

and the cost then was 30 cents per gallon of gas.

In 1986, at $6 per barrel I was paying $1. 20 per gallon. Go figure.

And Since your getting 70% of the Owners Oil, and drilling in a proven area,

plus having pardners to limit your risk, for the ocassional dry hole. Which Is OK. I would say theres not much room for whining.

Are you sending your kid to Princeton? If so, we may be related by marriage. :-laf :-laf :-laf



P. S. I hope you were not insuating I drive the Izusu diesel.



P. S. S. I feel your Pain.

 

[Sled Dog]

Everyone believes something... I believe I'll go have a dark ale.

I'm thinking, a Dinkle Lager Dark, would be right, just now.

 

[SNiebaum]

You can buy from other oil companies. People don't stick together anymore but if they did and nobody bought from Exxeon they would have to lower their prices. Then others would lower theirs to compete.

that is patently untrue... if everyone stopped purchasing fuel at Exxon/Mobil stations, the demand at other stations would go up and 1 of 2 things would happen. #1 and most probable, Exxon would sell the fuel they had to the other stations at market value to make up for the increased demand. #2 and less likely, the increased demand at "non-Exxon" fueling stations would only raise the price of the fuel they had to sell.

If the environmentelist would get real and allow drilling in Anwar and off-shore it would lower our dependence on foreign oil and their price would go down too. I remember 19. 9 for diesel and reg. gas in 1966 and I also remember people complained.

Now that's something we can all agree on... . and I'll have a Coors Light.

 

[Champane Flight]

I will have a Root beer please.

At least gasoline does not cost as much as bottled water... .

 

[DOWG]

John3976; you just stepped over the line declaring that I would cheat the landowners out of their oil "if I could". Son, calling people a liar is no way to prevail.



However, it is the liberal moonbat way.



We are a nation of laws, not men. Which, now that I think about it, is a really good idea.



The area in which I am drilling is now a "proven" area in which to find oil; because I drilled 8 dry holes in a row to find the "proven" area, which last time I checked had resulted in 16 more good wells with 2 more dry holes.



Happy Motoring

 

[RGardner]

DOWG, I am in no way saying that you are but it has been proven that several companies have cheated royalty owners out at least part of their payments. And how long does it take you to recover your drilling costs on a producing well? Not too long is my guess at todays prices. It is very easy for folks who are making lots of money in the oil patch to forget how much high fuel prices hurts the average joe. Are there things that we all can do to save some fuel, no doubt. But do I think that they will cause the price of fuel to drop significantly, no.

 

[DOWG]

RGardner, no problem.



I have believed in and understood the underlying economics of oil supply and demand for 30 years. I KNEW this was coming. That is why I have stayed in the oil business even when the price was $6 a barrel and I lost my oil field job.



Now, I didn't have a chance to go to college, I graduated from Texas A&M (Aggie joke) in 1979, but I applied 6 credit hours of basic economics + world population growth and industrialization with a little Aggie math to what my Geologist-to-be college roomate taught me about world oil production and made a choice (decision) that the oil business was going to be the "next big thing" in my life time (Bill Gates made a similar decision). Sometimes, I wondered, and my wife (s) darn sure pointed it out while serving me beans and rice, if I made the right decision. Less than 10 years ago, I was bankrupt, but I stuck with it, took on the risks and drilled ahead.



When I drilled my first well (dry hole) on the Brookshire Salt Dome near Houston, Texas, in January, 2004, oil was less than $20 a barrel. Of the 100 or so wells I plan on drilling out here, they were all economically based on that $20 per barrel price. I knew the end of cheap oil was coming, but could not pick a date. In November of 2004, after 8 dry holes in a row and I finally brought the first well in. If anyone would have told me oil would be $75 a barrel in April, 2006, I would have said, sure, possible, but I will believe it, when I see it. Seeing is believing.



My wells average 50 barrels of oil per day (including gas production). At todays prices, after the landowner gets his, the well pays for itself in about a year. (If everything goes right, which I can assure you, it will not). An oil well can be producing just fine today, stop tomorrow and never produce another drop. Mother nature can be extraordinarily kind on one hand and very cruel on the other. "You pays your money and you takes your chances".



There are crooks in all business ventures. Here in Texas, the Texas Railroad Commission (RRC) regulates and keeps very close tabs on all oil & gas production; because they tax it. Their website is public information and can be accessed by anyone (understanding that it is a government website and not real user friendly) that is. www.rrc. state. tx. us/



But my point is, I have to file what are called Division Orders with the RRC saying who owns what part of the well and where the money paid for the oil is to be sent. The landowner gets paid directly by the oil purchaser, not me, I never see the landowners money. The purchaser also takes out the production taxes so I never see that money either.



I have to file a report every 8 days (!?!?!?) which lists in very specific detail, how much oil & gas I produced, sold, had "on hand" at the begining of the week (day) and how much was "on hand" at the end of the week (day). Those numbers better match up with the reports sent to the RRC by the purchaser or I get a "come hither" letter, call or visit. Not good.



If people have been cheated by the oil comapnies, that is just wrong. Oil production + taxes = full public dislosure. So if folks have been cheated, the records are there. Too many people involved, with too many different companies that must file reports and legally attest to their accuracy to form a conspiracy to cheat the landowner.



If an oil company were to cheat the landowner by stealing the oil, that would mean not reporting the oil production and not paying the production taxes. Not paying the production taxes is stealing from the state and will result in huge fines, jail time and confiscation of said oil wells. In short, not even remotely worth the time and trouble.



For that matter, I enter into a legal contract (lease) with the landowner. I negotiate the lease with the landowner to the mutual satisfaction of all parties or I do not make the deal. I want to be there, I know the landowner on a personal basis; he wants me to be there. The oil business is hard enough without creating a situation where the landowner has shut my well in, padlocked the valves and has his 6' 7" 300 pound son with a bad attitude camped out at the gate with a shotgun. They have a saying down here: "Well, he needed killing. " Texas farmers and ranchers are a tough and savy bunch, in an old fashioned way, they don't take kindly to stealing.



Rule #1: Keep the landowner happy. Rule #2: See Rule #1.





Hope this helps.



Happy Motoring!



Oh, one more thing, not directed at RGardner. The Enron "trading and accounting scam" which is what happened, is not "apples to apples" in relation to the wild, uninformed accusations regarding the "Big Oil" conspiracy to create endentured servants out of the public.



I have always said, if someone would please give me the name, address and telephone number of the conspiracy, I would like to contact them and join up so I can go fishing this weekend and just never come back.

 

[RGardner]

Some of the places that oil companies are abusing royalty owners is, not paying the going rate for the product taken, charging the land owner from expenses both pre and post production and taking more product than they are paying for. I am sure that there are many more but those I am certain of. I also cannot understand why most companies will not put a penny back into maintaining there lease roads and locations.

 

[steved]

My whole take on this is the fact that they are taking advantage of the public... and EVERYONE pays... even those that don't have a car... by paying higher prices for everything... .



steved

 

[john3976]

Spoken like a true liberal. How much more class envy can you have.



Steve

LOL, you would be laughed out of town if you were ever caught calling me a liberal in front of people who know me.



I have something most of you don't have, Common sense.



You are so far off about me, I am no where near being a liberal, but I refuse to stand by and be raped by Big Oil, I am making a lot of noise and I hope the government steps in soon.

 

[john3976]

Texans Going To Pawn Shops To Get Extra Gas $$

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(CBS 11 News) DALLAS High gasoline prices are causing some people to take desperate measures.



Pawn shops say their business is increasing, with some customers saying they're selling things to buy gas.



Gas prices are climbing again, with most stations prices hovering at, or just below $3. 00 a gallon. For some people the high fuel prices are overwhelming.



"We just have customers come in and have to tell us that they need money ‘till the end of the week, for gas to get back and forth to work," said pawn shop owner, Gerald Costner.



Everything from high end jewelry, to name brand purses, and televisions… pawn shop owners say they are seeing it all come in. They say customers are frustrated and have no place to go to get extra cash for gas.



"Some of the construction people tell us they are having to pawn their tools to buy gas, but when they pawn their tools they can't go out and work in the construction business ‘cause their tools are in pawn. So it kind of a catch-22,” Costner said.



Mary Rodriguez has worked at the Casa View Pawn Shop for five years. She says she's seen people of all ages coming in looking for help.



“We've always had a clientele of the young kids, or middle age kids, and now we’re getting an older generation. Which, it just seems wrong that they have to pawn things just to get gas, or ya know, to make ends meet on things like that. "



As prices continue to rise at the pumps, many motorists say they don't see things getting better anytime soon, for the consumer.



“It is frustrating, but the thing is they know they can get away with it, because people need gas,” Rodriguez said.



At Casa View Pawn, the owner says they've seen the increase in numbers over the past couple months.