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FASS Dyno Results

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Bill you said what i was thinking. maybe under a load when a bombed truck is starving for fuel with the oem l/p the fass delivers to keep up with the demand so under these conditions Brad's claim to more power may have some truth to it. after i installed my dd3's (thanks proram)my truck acted the same way it did when the l/p went out at 15,000. when i installed the fass it had 10psi at idle and 5 at wot the truck was a pig. now i have 21psi at idle and 15 at wot truck runs great. my concern now is why can i pull this fass down 6psi and others bombed more than me can only pull down 1-2psi. this is my first post my apologies if it is difficult to read. :)
 
First, welcome rednkcowb, this is a great site for the Cummins. My line of thinking on this was that the designer of this FASS system was thinking also that there was an increase of 2-5 lb boost with this system. If that is true, ( which I don't know if it is true or not ) what on my truck would keep it from showing up (boost) I thought it might be the ECM, some others think its the wastegate. Maybe the system makes no difference, I don't know. What is it on our trucks that keeps us from getting over 20-21# boost Stock. Is it the wastegate opening up at these pressures or is it the ECM waiting to get these pressures and starts to defuel the truck. I am learning here, so be gentle:)

Don
 
WASTEGATE! Stock, an ETH will not go over 21-22psi no matter what you put on it. If it did the map sensor would see it and cut fueling back drasticly. The only way I can think of to test it would be to put a boost elbow in the turbo and install either a boost fooler or a Comp in the off position and run it hard. Still, even without the FASS, under these conditions you might be able to get slightly higher boost numbers.
 
Cuda, I believe that on a stock truck, the wastegate keeps you from getting more than approx. 20psi boost. I don't think the ecm kicks in unless somehow the wastegate isn't dumping enough and you get over your 20psi. When I disabled my wastegate once on a stock truck, it built more than 20psi boost, and then the ecm cut back the fueling. The ecm did not prevent me from making it over 20psi, just corrected it once it happened.



Red, I don't know if this is the reason i'm only seeing 2psi drop (17 to 15) and your seeing a drop of 6, but it may be an idea. Doug at ADT drilled out the fitting (i believe the one before the VP) to allow more flow. He also wired it up a little different than whats provided with the fass. He still plugged in to the original lift pump wiring harness, but he also hooked it up directly to the battery. I've heard from a few people that running only off the lift pump wiring harness sometimes doesn't supply enough juice to the fass. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Now thats something to consider in reference to pressure drops of some pumps and not others. ADT(Dougs) kits are modified by drilling the AN fitting at the VP to prevent a fuel restriction upon entry to the VP, and I'm not sure if Brads are drilled are not. The pressure can be adjusted to your desired PSI up or down, I personally want to see 15#s at idle.

TJ
 
i did drill the fitting out however i did not check the voltage at the oem wire harness like the instructions said:( if low voltage is the problem i will put in a relay to supply battery voltage to the fass like c-hawk suggested;) just a thought for those more intelligent than i if a stock truck was to have low voltage at the l/p could that be causing some of the premature failures?
 
boost

I drilled the fitting out that screws into the 44, all I know is that I bought the truck new, drove it home and put guages in it. I have done mods one at a time starting with exaust and have done detailed b-4 and after logging of gains/ results. With the FASS I see a slight increase in boost at certain times. With the way a guage is It appears that the increase is about 1-2#.
 
happy with the fass system

Merry Christmas everyone in tdr land i became a member of tdr before i bought my ctd and thanks to this website i have learned a ton about my truck It's a 98. 5 24v quad longbed 2wd all stock i bought it in april '03 it now has 103k on it After reading the many threads on the lift pump debacle i checked my fuel press and i had about 6lbs cruising steady and if i whacked it i got about 2-3lbs i use the truck to pull my race car which is only about 5500lbs after reading all the threads i wanted nothing to do with another "stock" lift pump ididnt care about any hp increase's just wanted peace of mind i will be pulling 8-9k soon with an enclosed trailer so i purchased theFASS system right away I cant give you dyno #'s but the day after installing FASS i hooked up my 2k car trailer and drove from roch ny to columbus oh to pick up a car, what i noticed right away was the upper rpm power the truck had, usually it felt kind of flat at anything over 2200 rpm, with the FASS it would pull hard as fast as i wanted to go I had the trailer up over 85 mph and it felt like an animal! That has the be the hp increase the install was a breeze and Brad was always available to answer any questions i had so far i'm happy the the system
 
Dyno results

Horsepower, torque and efficiency increases resulting from changes made to the stock factory diesel or a high output diesel, as modified later, depend on many variables. When installing a new device on your engine, you need to know what you are getting!!!



The attempt to separate air from fuel or other liquids has been going on for over 100 years by individuals and large corporations from around the world, none were successful until the Fuel Preporator. The original Fuel Preporator was put on the commercial market in 1994 and has gone through a number of design changes and improvements. The original model was designed for the class 8 over the road truck engines. It did what it was designed to do very successfully, but it was large and bulky. That was ok for the Big trucks, but not for small applications such as pick up trucks. The original Fuel Preporator also had its limit as to flow and air separation.



Watching a modern jet airliner fly may make flight appear simple. However, as we all know, it is not. Air separation from liquids is neither easy nor simple and depends on a number of technical design issues.



Entrained air, a product of fuel sloshing in the tank and carried in with the fuel; and fuel vapor, produced by vaporization through fuel pump cavitation, being compressible is the source of lost power, low torque, increased fuel consumption and increased exhaust emissions of the diesel engine. The degradation of performance of the diesel engine as it leaves the factory or test cell and is put to use under real world operating conditions is a result of using the inadequate vacuum feed fuel supply system.

To achieve an increase in torque and horse power output from the diesel engine and restore the engine to the designed performance level, requires eliminating the problem at it's source. Remove the vacuum feed filtration system and replace it with the proper system!



A fuel filtration/delivery device may remove air and maintain a positive pressure flow. However, if it is inadequate to remove air/vapor at the higher flow rate or as the filter begins to plug, it may quite possibly cease to function as intended and may pass excessive air/vapor to the engine. Should this happen, a loss of horsepower and torque will result and the device then becomes just a fancy, expensive fuel pump! Additionally, this quote from the Milwaukee School of Engineering, might make one cautious, "probably the most destructive fluid contaminant is 'air'. It causes severe cavitation and can destroy a pump in a matter of minutes. "



The new Fuel Preporator Model 135-A, (A for advanced technology) has features that enable it to be built very small and still separate air from the fuel at extremely high flows and pressures. The Fuel Preporator models for the Alco and EMD locomotive and marine engines up to 20 cylinders (12,900 cu. in. plus) and 6,000 or more horsepower, have filters about the same size as the original Fuel Preporator.

The difference is that the Original Fuel Preporator would only separate air/vapor from fuel at flows to 165 gph. The new Advanced design Fuel Preporator for the locomotive and marine engines separates air from fuel at flow rates of 450/650 gph or more and maintains a much higher pressure. We did not alter blue prints to some one else's patented product to do this.

Fuel Preporator is an ISO-9001 Quality Manufactured and Tested product.



About Dyno Tests: Tests performed by the University of West Virginia Emission and Engine Lab confirm that after installing the Fuel Preporator on the engine (test engine was a 3306 Cat) that torque rise off idle was increased 103% to 106% and at peak it was increased by about 6%. Additionally, torque did not fall off at the higher rpm's. Tests on 4,000hp EMD marine engines (twin engine powered tugs) show a significant reduction in fuel consumption and a backing off of the 'rack' on the engine equipped with the Fuel Preporator running next to the other engine with a standard fuel filtration system. NOTE: Wheel or propeller speed of both engines was maintained equal. Press releases will soon be issued.



Fuel Preporator is the REAL DEAL! It should not be assumed that other systems, because they may have a similar appearance or that they claim to do the same thing, actually perform the same!



Again, thanks for your time,



Charles L. Ekstam, Inventor of the Fuel Preporator



Edited by Steve St. Laurent to remove references to competitors
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Am I reading this correctly?



Charles L. Ekstam, Inventor of the Fuel Preporator is saying that Brad Ekstam's FASS is a downsized version of the big truck Preporator and does not work as well?

And he has been to court over it?:confused:



Did I read this totally wrong? If I did, someone please correct me.
 
I hain't read the pleadings, but it appears that Charles' claim is that Brad took something that he was not entitled to. The MO courts might rule in a year or two.



But we're getting off the main topic of the thread.



Can anybody give us Cummins 5. 9 dyno or ET or G-tech readings that suggest enhanced performance?



Without HP, I find both systems overpriced.



You don't prove reliability on a dyno, this is a horsepower thread. :p
 
ok, from what i have just read here( i am not real familiar with the fass yet thats why i am reading this, because of planning for future mods) I think brad is going about his presentation wrong.



Like rednkcowb had kind of said, what he (brad) is claiming to be hp from his testings, may not have actually been true hp. The system may just be letting the mods that have been done to the truck already actually work to their full potential. This means the system works 'WITH' other mods to bring out their full power potential. the system 'itself' may not add hp.



Am I thinking of this correctly and do you think that is where brad may be making hp claims?



I AM NOT trying to discredit ANYONE just trying to learn. And if at all help Brad not ruin his chances at producing a product that may be a great item for our trucks.



Brad, don't get upset at the questions being asked, just try and use them to help youself produce a great system and not tick off everyone here on this board by any kind of FALSE advertising. If you haven't done any dyno runs and proved anyting them don't quote xx hp increases. I know that is what ticks me off the most.

Use you system as a good replacement of the stock system on our truck,then maybe as a statement mention" and as an added bonus, it MAY increase hp and fuel mileage. Or on SOME applications we have found an increase in power. "



sorry for being long and maybe confusing.
 
Wolf

You are right on the money, a true air separation system such as the Fuel Preporator in reality only restores the equipped diesel engine to the designed level of performance efficiency and power output. However, because this is an increase from the current performance level, it is considered an increase.



Thanks,



Charles L. Ekstam
 
Originally posted by Preporator

... here's the deal. I'll donate a Fuel Preporator for a comparison dyno run... . free!!! We, you & I or who ever wants to be involved must get together; it must be legimate and done in a controlled manner. The engine should be a 2002 or earlier (I'll explain) and not be more than 350 to 400 hp. It should also be presently equipped with a FASS. This should prove once and for all whats fast and whats just half fassed!!!



Now, this is what I call, "bellying up to the bar", boys!



Charlie,



You Da Man!!! :D



Joe
 
Stakeman, Happy New Year!!



The reason to limit maximum engine output on a dyno test such as this is because the % of change is larger and it is easier to measure and document at a lower hp output. Removing air/vapor from the injection system will (if the engine has no serious defects) effect a smoother idle and a more responsive throttle even in diesel engines with big power. However, as engine power output is increased through modifications such as bigger injector nozzles, twin turbos, performance chips, and others of which there many, the performance change becomes more difficult to measure simply because the percentage of change becomes smaller. Keep in mind that even with big power, air/vapor still can cause galling or cavitational pitting of the injector barrel/plunger and tip erosion of the nozzle, all permanent system component damage.



Thanks Stakeman, I hope this will answer your question fully.

OK, its NEW YEARS EVE and I'm still at work. It's time to go home.



HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!!



Charles L. Ekstam
 
If you look on the dyno chart posted by Hammer from the Fall Brawl you will notice that the torque rise increase off of idle with the FASS shows a large increase. This is typical of a diesel running right. However, as the RPM goes up and the flow to the engine increases power suddenly falls off. Remember, even though positive pressure is maintained, if air separation is not taking place retarded timing is causing a power loss. Why is it now greater than before even with positive pressure to the engine lift pump? The supply pump on the device is working harder and caveatting more than the lift pump on the engine ever did. More caveatting means more vapor and more retarded injection timing..... less power. Read the results!



As I have said before and I'll repeat myself again... .

One of the BIGGEST flaws is the way the FASS bypasses fuel back to the tank. I'll not reveal what I learned thru a very close racer friend on that, as they race in classes where class wins are determined by thousandths,as too much air costs more than just HP,it costs in wins,records and wayyy to many broken parts. What I will offer is this,dig a little,its right in front of you,the owners who use these systems,it can be made to work much more efficiently. I do feel the winterized fuel hurt him,but not that much.



Mr. Ekstam... .

I was one of those involved with the test that day,along with Proram,Cuda and the entire Kauffman Motorsports Crew. If its a early truck you seek I'll offer my mule as the rig. Its a 98 12 valver with a nice even tune which makes it power early and hold its strong. Its no monster,but with more additions looming I was going to upgrade my system anyway. I'll PM a contact number to you and offer to set a day up for the test. You bring the pump,we all can do the install,spin it without before,spin it with after. If it picks the truck up,I buy it,if it doesn't you donate it. Follow up posts will be done,good or bad info included and I'd bet the TDR mag would be interested in a article on it. Let me know if your interested... ... ... ... ... Andy
 
Originally posted by Preporator

The supply pump on the device is working harder and cavitating more than the lift pump on the engine ever did. More cavitation means more vapor and more retarded injection timing..... less power. Read the results!




Happy New Years to you too, Preporator.



The reason I asked that question was because of the statement you made above. It looks to me as though the higher the HP the bigger the difference should be because of cavitation or vapor. I am not doubting what you say, just asking questions. I have not tried any other lift pumps on my truck because I have not seen one that will last.
 
Ok, I'll give it a guess. By using the tanks vent for a return, will this pressurise the tank entraining more air into the fuel?
 
"By using the tanks vent for a return, will this pressurise the tank entraining more air into the fuel?"..... and at the same time make the pump cavitate because it's working under a vacuum induced restriction of flow from the tank - like a vapor lock?
 
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