Figured out I'm Overloaded!

[Wiredawg]

Gents:



I recently figured out my truck is overloaded when hitched to my 36 ft Travel Supreme with triple slides. Here are the weights of my fully loaded truck with fully loaded trailer:



front axle: 4,500 lbs (rated @5,200)

rear axle: 6,320 lbs (rated @6,084) a little over

trailer axles: 13,060 lbs

GCVW: 23,380 lbs (rated 20,000) way over



So, here's my situation:



1. When I bought my 5th wheel, I gave the dealer all the info on my truck and he said it will pull it fine (and it does). But, I never checked the numbers myself (lesson learned).



2. I'm not exceeding max load capacity of tires (most critical area). Each tire rated at 3420 Lbs



3. Truck/trailer combo stops great! Awsome brakes on trailer.



4. Upgraded suspension (Super Airlifts and Rancho RS9000s) make truck incredibly stable.



5. Truck pulls great!



Well, guys, here's what it boils down to: I'm just looking for your opinions on my rig to get a feel for some level of safety.



Thanks, Wiredawg

 

[klenger]

2500 or 3500?



The other information that is important is the actual weight of the truck with the 5er connected. You need to know the GVW in addition to the GCVW. I suspect you are way over on that also.

 

[Wiredawg]

It's a 2500. Dang, never noticed I didn't have this in my signature.



Isn't the gross vehicle weight the sum of the front and rear axle weights with trailer connected? And GCVW add the trailer axles as well?



Wiredawg

 

[Snow man]

You are way over weight IMO,I think even a 3500 would be overweight,since your truck weighs 10820 by your measurements,a duallys GVWR is 11000,the dually weighs about 350 lbs more than the 2500,so if you add that to the 10820,you'd still be illegal,but not by much. Id be worried about the rear axle weight more than anything else,a rear blowout could be deadly at speed,if you kept your setup,19. 5's would add a nice margin of safety. I made the same mistake when i bought my CTD,I thought becasue it was heavier duty than my GMC 2500 LD,it could acrry more,I was wrong,my GMC 6 lug 2500 had much more payload than my CTD. I have found that it is very easy to overload a CTD 2500,especially the 4x4 quad cabs,since they weigh so much empty.

 

[klenger]

You are correct on the GVW and GCVW. I didn't notice that you listed the axles separetly. That means you are 2000 lbs over GVWR of 8800 lbs. Yep, you are overloaded. Now, what to do?

 

[forr]

If I'm reading right, your GVWR is close to 11k, all on a 2500. Sounds like your close to the max. for the rear tires. Do you have the overload springs and rear sway bar for towing?



Good to see a neighbor here!

 

[EricBu12]

overloaded?

Well in his post, he said he has upgraded airlift suspension. now if that is taken into consideration, 8800 gvw does not apply. Now it is like 12,000. and if the tires are not overloaded, then the gcvwr, of 23000 is not that bad with the better airlifts. bet the gcvwr is like 25,000 now

The front axle is not over on the stock #'s but the rear is,--but, there is the better suspension. so 6084# on rear stock but up a bit on the airlift, and now not over, Bet the rear #'s are like 7000# or better maybe 8000#



I drive truck for a living (triples 105,000 #)and when you upgrade a suspension, the #'s go up as well . as long as you have tires that can handle it. as wiredog said, the tires are fine so I say go dog, and have fun, just don't buy too many souveniers on your trips lol

Got an E-brake there wiredodg? better get one if you don't

I'd say his setup is ok. go with it

Eric

 

[Snow man]

Eric,not trying to start a war,but when you upgrade suspension,it in no way affects a weaker link, below it(axle),who care if he;s got air lifts,the truck only has a 6500 lb rear axle,and a 5200 lb front axle. Not to mention the brakes system on that truck is certified for 8800 lbs,not 10800 lbs. If there is a way to legally increase the GVWR of my 8800 truck,as you state,Id do it,but i dont think you can,the tag on the door says 8800,which matches the VIN# on the dash,I think its the 6 or 7 digit of ther VIn,that states brake system GVWR,how are you going to legally change this?Change the VIN#?My suggestion was ,if he's going to continues to use this truck,go with 19. 5 tires,this will give you a safety margin ,and stability increase. He needs to determine if he wants to be legal or not,and how much of a chance he's willing to take everytime he tows that monster.

 

[Bug Out]

Just my 2 cents worth

I tow a 15,000 lb 3 slide Alpenlite for a combined GCVW of approx 22,800#.



I have 4:10's , dually etc. It pulls fine. ( not going too fast getting up to speed)



I'm actually overweight myself by "law" and the Manufact. weight GCVW of 20,000#.



I think the drive train of your truck is fine. The dana 70 ( if thats what it has) should be ok...



Gear ratio(3:54) puts a little more strain on the engine, but nothing the CTD can't handle.



The only weak link I think is stopping power and tire capacities etc.



And then again, your are by law, over weight.



I do see the very same type P/U's towing the same combo's all the time with no problem. I think (IMHO)that driving with caution etc etc etc and you will be fine.



Again, just my opinion from what I see doing a LOT of 5th wheeling and camping.

 

[Dieselnerd]

If I remember the Dana 70 axle specs correctly (and I think I do) the Dana 70 is a 7500# axle. The limiting factor is the tires. The 245's in load range E that came on many of the trucks were rated at 3042# each which gave you the 6084# rating. With tires rated at 3420# Wiredawg is within the safe range where nothing will break. I've seen people towing very large fifth wheels with 1/2 ton trucks and wondered why the wheels didn't fall off. Those are the ones that need to have their heads examined. Our Dodges are very strong and while Wiredawg is exceeding the factory GCVW, he is still under the actual limits of the individual components and shouldn't have any problems as long as he has good brakes.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Take a look at Bill Swail's (EarthRoamer) article in Issue 32(?) about how the 2500 compares to the 3500 and by upgrading tires/wheels you pretty much end up with a SRW 3500.



Adding airbags/overloads may or may not increase the rear axle capacity - depends on what the weak link is. I don't know if it's the springs or something else. Do you?



Brian

 

[RJOL]

I'm not sure I follow your logic

Originally posted by Snow man

Eric,not trying to start a war,but when you upgrade suspension,it in no way affects a weaker link, below it(axle),who care if he's got air lifts, the truck only has a 6500 lb rear axle,and a 5200 lb front axle... . go with 19. 5 tires,this will give you a safety margin ,and stability increase.

On the one hand, you seem to say that no matter what he does, the limiting factor is the rear axle, and then you tell him to load up 19. 5 tires and rims (= even more weight). If the limiting factor is truely the axle, why would larger tires = more safety? ...

 

[Dieselnerd]

OOOPS!

I just dug out my spec book... I should have looked here before I posted. Dana 70 is 6500# rating and Dana 80 as used on the 3500 is 7500#. But even at that, Wiredawg is still under his axle capacity with slightly over 6300# on his rear axle. Earthroamer is a good example of being overweight without overloading the components.

 

[Wiredawg]

I'm Back

Hey guys:



1. I have a Dana 80 rear end. I also have factory overloads and the swaybar (trailer towing pkg)



2. I've thought about 19. 5s, but I'd need to take out my 3. 54s and put in 4. 10s (total of both = big $$$). Smallest 19. 5s I've seen are 33" tall. My 265/75-16s are 31". Can't handle taller gears.



3. It's possible to convert to duelly and upgrade rear brakes. Not sure about cost. I'll still be overweight, but maybe less overweight?



4. I guess I'm trying to find out if I'm not exceeding axles or tires, do I really have a problem? Does Dodge under rate our trucks for liability issues or do I have serious problems?



5. I could scare my wife into the fact we are a train wreck waiting to happen and go out and buy a low end Freightliner. Not likely. lol



I'm still reading responses and am happy to see your honest opinions/suggestions



P. S. I took the axle ratings off of the door, which also incorrectly showed 245 tires, when I have the higher rated 265 tires.

 

[Snow man]

Rick,first off,he is not over his axle weight,and 19. 5's will add a cushion as far as tires go,since running at the limit of tires makes them run hot,and more likely to fail. The only reason the rear end is 6500 lbs is the brakes size,if the brakes were biger,the capacity may be able to be ncreased,either way,If he's going to tow it,the 19. 5's are the way to go when your at the limit of 16" tires like he is now. I know the Ram is tough,i think everyone on here that actually uses their 2500,has at one time or another overloaded it. i know I have. I do not like highway speeds,and tires at max GVWR,this equals a blowout sooner or later,ive learned this the hard way,like I said he need so decide if he wants to be legal or not,and weigh the risks. If it were mine,and i towed any more than a few times a year,id consider a 3500,if not,Id stick with what i had.

 

[JJW_ND]

Run good rubber!

Speaking from lots of highspeed (MT... . no limits) heavy towing with 2500 trucks, run high quality rubber. Michellins, Toyos or Goodyear commercial tires.



They will all but eliminate blow outs. We pulled 12500 - 14000 lb trailers with chevys, dodges and fords. Cheap tires were are only problem. Amost 500,000K miles pulling these trailers with only 2500 trucks. All 4x4 extrended cabs. It works.



jjw

ND

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Wiredawg, if you decide to swap to 19. 5's and want the 4. 10's let me know. I have 4. 10's on my truck and want to swap with someone for 3. 55's (I have a LSD and would want the same in return).

 

[Extreme1]

With regards to swapping gears between 2 trucks: It would be easiest and fastest to swap axle assemblies (cheapest too).



You are overloaded only in GCVW and only by a couple k pounds. After the trip I took to Kalifornia this year, in comparison to half or more of the 1/2 ton trucks pulling houses, that's not much. Many factors are considered when determining those ratings. As long as you have good tires and the brakes are up to snuff and you have a clue (which you already do because you are thinking about it) you will be fine.



As for what's "legal", the ratings Dodge has on the door are for the truck. This is to limit their warrantee liability. What is truely legal is set by the state and federal goverments (and the tire label). There is a lot of variability in the states as far as axle load limits and "bridge laws" as well as length laws. If you wanted to open a bigger can of worms you could investigate that further, but I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[RJOL]

Snowman

Well, I guess I can follow some of you logic... I'm not familiar with 19. 5 tires or what their load capacity is. It just seems that if your at your maximum load, adding bigger tires, with more inertia, would be adding to the problem. My stock tires are load range E and are rated at 3420 max load. That's 340lbs above the axle rating. I won't disagree that maybe having a dually gives you a possible safety margin for a single tire blowout, but that's about it. The 3500 max loads are not that much different then the 2500. As for the stability issues of a 3500 vs a 2500, I've towed my 32' 5th wheel for years, and have never had a problem, even in crosswinds. Just my $. 02.....

 

[Spyke]

Wiredawg Your in the same boat I was. My monster weighed in at 24,500 to 26K depending on toys. The weights on the axles tires and rims were never overloaded. Exhaust brake held and slowed this pig on 6% declines. I would of kept running this but the Eastcoast wasn't to receptive to trying to manuever a rig 59' long on secondary roads

Steve