Finally Installed

[TSuter]

Finally got the ATS manifold and 16cm turbo housing installed that I ordered in Oct. The bottom end performance is great compared to the old 21cm, but there is just one problem, actually two.



One. This one has some wicked turbo bark to it. I don't have to give it much fuel at all and if I don't ease off the fuel she'll try to bark or make a real light huffing noise. How bad is this? I've read other posts and there seams to be mixed feelings on the subject.



Two. From 0-60mph the performance is fine, after that the truck just falls on it's face. Defueling? Got my $#@ handed to me yesterday by a Mitsibishi piece of junk (literally the thing smoked worse then a diesel) I was doing alright till 60 then nothing barely made it to 75 at WOT. Also, the EGT won't go past 700*.



Any and all help would be GREATLY appreciated!



Tom



P. S. Wife told me the other day I can't get my '69 Charger 'cause I'm spending all the money on the truck. Told her I haven't even started!

 

[Greenleaf]

You've Only Just Begun

P. S. Wife told me the other day I can't get my '69 Charger 'cause I'm spending all

the money on the truck. Told her I haven't even started!





Atta Boy!!



-T,



You are at the point which I was when I began.

Turbo Bark; It'll happen. You can twist a shaft it worst case. I never have and can get some good barking from mine. The trucks with manual trans are much more pronounced. My wife thinks it cool!



700* pyro; I will cut through the chase here.

You are not delivering enough fuel to the combustion chambers.



You'll need to make adjustments to the throttle linkages, and , injection pump/nozzles.



I can be more specific if'n ya like.



Greenleaf

 

[TSuter]

Greenleaf, specific probably isn't the word, spoonfed is probably more like it . This is the first time playing with diesels.



My throttle linkage as near as I can tell is fine as far as adj. , the pump is bumped up 1/8" (the channel lock suggestion worked great), and the power screw is in 1. 5 turns.



I've read about adj. the star wheel, but even with the Pastor's drawings and diagrams still am not to sure where it is or even how to access it. Same goes for the fuel cone/pin.



Thanks again



Tom

 

[CDegner]

How many miles do you have on this truck? Sounds about like where mine was. I ended up replacing the injectors. Mine were so carboned up when I pulled them I oculd only see holes in 3 of them. Even with stock fuel settings it was like I was driving a new truck. This was at about 238K miles that I did this. This was also after having installed the 16cm housing.



With the new injectors and turbo, this is definitely a whole different beast!



Carl

 

[bgilbert]

Tom, EGT 700* is that pre or after turbo? The 16 is going to have better bottom end performance, quicker spool, the 21 would have had better top end performance, maybe still had some boost left up and over 60mph? I don't know I'm still at 18. 5 cm. Bill

 

[TSuter]

Carl, I only have 157k on it, the prior owner only used the truck to haul a 5th wheel from Fla. to Delaware. With that many highway miles I wouldn't think the injectors would be clogged. Stranger things have happened.



Bill, the EGT is measured pre-turbo. I knew I would have alot better bottom end, but it seems from what I've read here that the dying over 60mph is unusual.



Unfortunately I don't have a boost guage yet so I don't know what pressures I'm running.



Tom

 

[dpuckett]

I would tend to agree with a fuelling issue. You should eb able to get to 70-75 pretty quick. I dont think the 16 would be too restrictive with your current set up, esp with stock injectors. By mention of the 21 cm housing, I assume you have a 4 speed OD transmission? If it is a 3spd auto, 70 may be all you get out of it.



Now on to possible solutions-

1. How old is your fuel filter? Clogged filter will make low EGT, boost, and MPGs.

2. Lift pump pressure. It is on the side of the block 6" above the starter. Looks like an average fuel pump from the days of carbureted gassers. Check it for leaks from the bottom of it. THere is a weep hole there, and if the diaphragm is broke, it will leak. Only fix is a new one @~$70.

3. How were your temps, boost before? I should hope the 700 is post turbo. If the pyro is in the exhaust pipe, get it into the manifold ASAP! IT is next to worthless in the exhaust. WIth a stock H1C-18, I had a 450deg difference with only 28psi boost. Neither rule- subtract 300deg, or 1psi= 10deg difference- fit the case.

4. Check for leaks in the piping from the turbo to the intake. If you have an intercooled engine, check the connection from the turbo to the elbow- I had to tap on it with a hammer to get it to fit when I upgraded Mom's to an 18. Clamp fit, but it was letting air leak. While you're at it, take a few more turns on the clamps everywhere else. Dont get TOO tight, but a good one hand turn should suffice.



If you have any more problems, let us know. Sure someone can get you pionted in thr right direction. And dont be afraid to tinker and tweak these things- I'd much rather count on one a Ram CTD running after I was under the hood than a gasser.



Daniel

 

[MicroOutlawRacer]

Is your trans shifting into O. D. A lot of guys with the autos have to play with the throttle position sensor to get the transmission to shift into OD at WOT. If it is not shifting then you are defuling in 3rd.



David

 

[backroad]

T-SUTER... ... . I would assume that with your truck being a 91, that you only have the 3 speed auto with NO OD. In you playing with the throttle linkage, did you happen to open up the throw on the throttle stop on the pump so the linkage will open further. It just sounds like this is the case. My old '90 Dodge/Cummins would only run about 78mph with this done. The pump will just not feed it much further unless modified more internally.



Unless I missed something, you also never said what axle ratio you had. With the 3 speed auto, the 3. 08 gears are very preferrable. Lower gears (higher numerically) will only tend to reduced top end.

 

[Greenleaf]

I'm spoon feeding here... ... .....



Say it with me,



Throttle... ... . Linkage.....



Stay with me on this.



1st You will need to get that high idle speed screw outta da way... ...



2nd This is something people seldom tell you;

get the fuel inlet pipe outta da way of your pump's throttle lever.



3rd this is something people rarely tell you;

grind off the linkage pivot bracket to, again, afford full linkage travel.



4th This is something you will never here aka top secret. After performing the above mods you will still be limited in the travel of your injection pump lever, aka limiting the fuel delivery, EVEN with high performance injectors.

Here it goes. You'r accelerator peddle will bottom out on the floor/firewall. You must remove it and modify the lever to allow full travel of the entire set of linkages. All ya gotta do is bend it up a bit.



5th Injection pump Remove the top cover, the air fuel control cover. Set the fuel cone to max taper where it rides against the fuel pin. Make certain that this fuel pin is free in it's housing. Must move out wards and make contact with control cone.

Cut the fiber washer, read that sand the washer to half it's original thickness. Adjust the star wheel to adjust for smoke as well as the set screw in the top of the cover you formerly removed.



If you want to get serious, replace the control cone and fiber washer with a modified version.

There are also internal pump mods you can do at home w/out adult supervision.



Did you remove the lock collar on the injection pump full fuel screw. You can get a turn or so on the screw with it still on.



I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes here or reveal any secrets I should not have. If so, very sorry. My mad.



I'm worn out.



Gre. . e... n... ... l... . e... . zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[TSuter]

Ok, let's see if I can answer all this. The truck is a '91. 5 intercooled, with the 4spd OD auto transmission, gear ratio is 3. 54 DANA 70 open diff, and the OD switch had been previously wired direct to trany the TPS is not even in the sys, and it was into 4th gear.



My thermocouple is mounted pre turbo in the manifold. Before the swap the highest I hit was 900* at WOT, and the fastest I've had the beast is 95.



Thanks for all the info/spoonfeeding will try tomorrow afternoon for the tinkering.



Tom



Oh yeah I forgot the fuel filter only has 4k miles on it, about six months, three of it not driven. I think that's everything.

 

[dpuckett]

900 in the manifold; must be nice....

Sounds like a fuel devlivery problem, then. Take off the AFC housing, (beware the pot metal AFC hose; I havent perfected the $3 fix, yet), remove the diaphragm and tapered pin, and see if you have guide pin (down in the well) travel- it should snap out when you pull the throttle lever back. If not, or if it eases out, that is your problem. And if that checks out ok, try cranking in on your fuel screw. Might wait on that till you get it figured out.



ALso check for exhaust leaks between the engine and turbo. SHould be sooted up good by now if it is leaky.

 

[JLEONARD]

I wouldn't think the injectors would be clogged.

Don't bank on that. I replaced mine 2 weeks ago at 130 K miles.

They truck was running really great, I was getting great mileage (22 to 24), started right up all the time.

But the old injector tips had a good deal of carbon built up on them. The The holes were there, but there was carbon "extruded" past the holes... no way these were performing correctly... . adequatly perhaps, but not great.

New injectors, even though not a huge power increase, made the truck run a whole lot better, smoother, etc.

Jay

 

[glhs]

Since you adjusted your pump, did you loosen the afc boost tube before doing so? I had lost about 3psi; found mine was broke and had to look real close to see the break. This was about 6 months ago and I bought a new one from Cummins. The new one consits of a rubber hose and two fittings. I think it was about $24. If you need a part # I might be able to find one. Hope this helps.

Kurt

P. S. Do you have any before/after boost numbers?

 

[TSuter]

Well when it rains it pours, made the adj. to the cone and starwheel, went to start it and my battery is dead. Have to wait a couple of days to get another one.



Kurt, no before/after boost numbers, haven't made it that far for the guage quite yet. when ever I adj the pump I loosen the lines up, learned that lesson on aircraft a few years ago the hard way. Think our lines are a pain to replace!



Thanks for all your help! That's why I love this board!



Tom

 

[TSuter]

#1 reason not to like new cars. Your not supposed to jumpstart other vehicles with them. In order to jump start the truck with my wifes van I had to take out the fuse box, then move her battery so I could get my cables on it, what a pain!



Took the truck out for a test beat, and it was great! This is with the starwheel bottomed out, the cone turned , adn the nylon washer sanded down. Once the truck warmed up, hitting 90 again was no problem and my EGT never went above 900*( it's only 10 here). The only smoke I got was a real light haze. Made several dashes from different speeds and the performance with the adj. and the new turbo was a huge improvement from what I had before.



Thanks to everyone for all the info.



Tom

 

[dpuckett]

Glad to see it all went well. Man, I need an intercooler.



Daniel