2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission First Time Oil Anaylsis.....opinions

[CCiatteo]

I am looking for opinions from others on the results of my oil analysis. I have been doing alot of reading about oils, the CI-4plus vs. CJ ratings, extended drain intervals, by-pass filtration etc. So on my last oil change I figured I'd get a baseline as to where my engine is at.



Background info (truck and mods in sig):

Valvoline Premium Blue 15/40 since I have owned it (last 15,000 mi) changed at 5000 mi intervals using a K/N filter (only one I could find consistently). I generally run empty and don't tow anything significant. I am averaging 17-20 miles per gallon and go anywhere from 470 miles to 540 miles on a load of fuel.



Goals:

In an effort to save a little cash (not the main motivation really), save some time (fewer oil changes), and extend the life of the motor (main goal) I am looking into going with by-pass system and making the jump to a sythentic oil.



Oil Report (from Oil Analyzers Inc):

Oil had 5586 miles on it.



10 iron

1 chromium

0 lead

1 copper

0 tin

2 aluminum

0 nickel

0 silver

10 silicon

45 boron

0 sodium

927 magnesium

2512 calcium

0 barium

1289 phosphorus

1619 zinc

56 molybedenum

0 titanium

0 vandadium

0 potassium



<1 %Fuel



n/a VIS @40C cSt



12. 84 VIS @100C cSt



0% water



0. 1% soot/solids (by volume)



no coolant



9. 22 TBN



Oil analyzers saw no problems and made no recommendations. So I guess all is well. I checked their website for ranges and everything looked good to me, but I was looking for some confirmation of that before I start extending my intervals.



I did change the oil and the crankcase currently has amsoil syn 15/40 heavy duty marine/diesel with their filter. So at the 5000 mile mark I'll test again and see what they say. But at least at that point I'll have something to compare against.



Thanks

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Wear numbers look great - Silicon maybe a bit higher than most, but overall, looks very good...

 

[kscheffler]

was this CI or CJ oil. Post your amsoil results will be interesting to see difference.

 

[CCiatteo]

The oil in this test was CI+4 Valvoline Premium Blue. I am very interested to see how well amsoil stacks up as well. By the end of October or early November I should be at the 5000 mile point, so we'll see.



Chris

 

[PRout]

Wear numbers look great - Silicon maybe a bit higher than most, but overall, looks very good...

Chris, Maybe the K&N is not cleaning quite as well as some of the other aftermarket filters would?? I know some people swear by K&N filters, but I'm not a fan of them.

Although 10 on the silicone isnt really all that high, some of us are used to seeing around "4" +/- a couple.

 

[RHebert]

I just turned over 200K today and my Cummins is running better than the day I bought it. I use synthetic 15-40 with a bypass filter. I change the oil and the bypass filter every June and average anywhere from 15K to 20K per year between oil changes. I also change the stock oil filter every six months. Before every oil change I take a sample and send it off. Everyone has come back with the recommendation to continue running the oil and re-sample in six months.

 

[CCiatteo]

Chris, Maybe the K&N is not cleaning quite as well as some of the other aftermarket filters would?? I know some people swear by K&N filters, but I'm not a fan of them.



Although 10 on the silicone isnt really all that high, some of us are used to seeing around "4" +/- a couple.

The K&N is more a function of what was always availble at the local parts store. Its either that or purolator/stp/fram and K&N seemed to be the best of the bunch. That and lack of education on my part. The education is no longer an excuse though thanks to this board.

 

[CCiatteo]

I just turned over 200K today and my Cummins is running better than the day I bought it. I use synthetic 15-40 with a bypass filter. I change the oil and the bypass filter every June and average anywhere from 15K to 20K per year between oil changes. I also change the stock oil filter every six months. Before every oil change I take a sample and send it off. Everyone has come back with the recommendation to continue running the oil and re-sample in six months.

That is exactly what i am hoping to be able to do. So lets hope for the best. What oil and bypass are you using. (Not looking to start a debate, just curious).



I fueled up today and got 540 miles on a load of fuel and averaged 20. 2 mpg in combined driving. I love this truck.



Thanks

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The K&N is more a function of what was always availble at the local parts store. Its either that or purolator/stp/fram and K&N seemed to be the best of the bunch. That and lack of education on my part. The education is no longer an excuse though thanks to this board.

I've had excellent results and oil analysis using K&N in the past - the vast majority of K&N complaints seem to be caused by poor sealing in OEM filter boxes (NO fault of K&N!), or misapplication, not enough filter area for engine mods installed. Some of my best oil analysis in wear metals and Silicon were when the K&N was installed...

 

[Jaysyl]

I thought CCiatteo was talking about a K&N oil filter I use the K&N oil filter on my gas cars and love the nut on the bottom of the filter .

 

[CCiatteo]

I thought CCiatteo was talking about a K&N oil filter I use the K&N oil filter on my gas cars and love the nut on the bottom of the filter .

I was..... but after reading the thread it looks like that got confused somewhere along the line... .



Chris

 

[lpermann]

On the part of your question about looking into a bypass filter, you might try looking at (fs250.com) website. They advertise that their bypass filter can filter to . 00278 mm. I am thinking about trying this filter myself. It is a little pricey, but it sounds and looks like a good product.

The Amsoil filter should be a good bypass filter too.

 

[RHebert]

That is exactly what i am hoping to be able to do. So lets hope for the best. What oil and bypass are you using. (Not looking to start a debate, just curious).

I use Amsoil 15-40 Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine oil along with the Amsoil 10" bypass filter # EaBP110. It's overkill for this engine but it doesn't cost that much more than the 6" or 8" filter. I use the Fleetguard 3552 Microglass filter for the stock filter. I may just try and go another six months next June and resample to see what difference I get between the oil analysis. I signed up as a Preferred Dealer with Amsoil for $20/yr. It's just easier to order over the internet and have it delivered to my front door.

I also switched from the K&N air filter to the AFE ProGuard 7 filter due to some technical specs I read the other day. The K&N was about 10 years old anyway and I got my money's worth out of it... ... .

 

[CCiatteo]

I am looking for opinions from others on the results of my oil analysis. I have been doing alot of reading about oils, the CI-4plus vs. CJ ratings, extended drain intervals, by-pass filtration etc. So on my last oil change I figured I'd get a baseline as to where my engine is at.



Background info (truck and mods in sig):

Valvoline Premium Blue 15/40 since I have owned it (last 15,000 mi) changed at 5000 mi intervals using a K/N filter (only one I could find consistently). I generally run empty and don't tow anything significant. I am averaging 17-20 miles per gallon and go anywhere from 470 miles to 540 miles on a load of fuel.



Goals:

In an effort to save a little cash (not the main motivation really), save some time (fewer oil changes), and extend the life of the motor (main goal) I am looking into going with by-pass system and making the jump to a sythentic oil.



Oil Report (from Oil Analyzers Inc):

Oil had 5586 miles on it.



10 iron

1 chromium

0 lead

1 copper

0 tin

2 aluminum

0 nickel

0 silver

10 silicon

45 boron

0 sodium

927 magnesium

2512 calcium

0 barium

1289 phosphorus

1619 zinc

56 molybedenum

0 titanium

0 vandadium

0 potassium



<1 %Fuel



n/a VIS @40C cSt



12. 84 VIS @100C cSt



0% water



0. 1% soot/solids (by volume)



no coolant



9. 22 TBN



Oil analyzers saw no problems and made no recommendations. So I guess all is well. I checked their website for ranges and everything looked good to me, but I was looking for some confirmation of that before I start extending my intervals.



I did change the oil and the crankcase currently has amsoil syn 15/40 heavy duty marine/diesel with their filter. So at the 5000 mile mark I'll test again and see what they say. But at least at that point I'll have something to compare against.



Thanks

Well, it has been 5600 miles with the Amsoil 15W/40 HD marine/diesel oil and their filter. Still no bypass installed. Everything has remained unchanged. So he goes the results:



iron 7

chromium 0

lead 0

copper 1

tin 0

aluminum 7 (seems like big jump from 2?)

nickel 0

silver 0

silicon 4

boron 7

sodium 0

magnesium 167 (huge drop from 927?)

calcium 4118 (huge jump from 2512)

barium 0

phosphorus 1387

zinc 1690

molybendnum 5 (large drop)

titanium 0

vanadium 0

potassium 0



<1% fuel (%Vol)



vis @40 C N/A



vis @100c 13. 47



0% water by vol



0. 1 soot/solids (%wt)



no coolant.



TBN 9. 30



I think this is about even so far compared to the Valvoline Premium Blue Dino Juice so far. No real advantage that I can see or am I missing something?

Oil analyzers says to keep going to I'll resample at the 10,000 mile mark and see what it looks like then. If I can go one year on an oil change (16-20K anuually) then I can see this paying off. If not, then the additional cost of the synthetic would not be tougher to justify in my opinion.



Any thoughts on the second sample compared to the first?



Thanks

Chris

 

[WestTN]

I almost hate to tell you this, but the TDR has documented a few Cummins that made 1 million miles and they didn't use synthetic oil. They used Shell Rotella T. Also, in the oil analysis that ran through the early 50's issues of the TDR, the oil specialist indicated that high detergency oil was hard on flat tappet camshafts such as found in the Cummins.



I would (and do) put my extra money into the rest of the truck. The Cummins will outlive the rest anyway, so every penny wasted on synthetic (unless neede for extreme cold weather) could be spent on the rest of the truck and its accessories. Like the Smarty for example.

 

[DonTX]

I fully agree, I don't see the synthetics ever giving a payback. I put a million miles on a Cat in my Kenworth using Shell Rotella, and used it in several other high miles gas and diesel engines. My truck will outlive me for sure with Rotella.

However that said, I DID put it in the transmission and differential of the Kenworth, with temp sensors to validate it, they both ran noticeably cooler with synthetics, meaning less friction and wear.

 

[Boondocker]

Clean oil is good. The real question isn't synthetic vs. conventional or brand x vs. brand y. The real question is driving conditions. Long distance driving is easiest on the motor and any oil will do. I typically drive 50-60 miles in stop and go traffic, starting and shutting down the engine 2-10 times a day. This is much harder duty than rolling down the highway 500-600 miles at a time. Someone who has put a half-million miles on their truck and swears by some oil isn't driving the way I do. I've put 85,000 miles on my truck in 6 years - short trips in town, long trips usually towing.

I had a next-door neighbor who was an owner-operator trucker (husband/wife team). They would by a new truck every 2 yrs or 400,000 miles, which ever came first - no out of warranty for them. They would also be on the road for 2 or 3 weeks at a time and say - we start the motor before we leave home, and shut it off when we get back home.

I'd like to think that synthetic oil is better for my duty type, and that oil-bypass filtration is better than stock high-flow only. Throw in the cost of an oil analysis, and even with extended drain intervals, I'm not saving money. But I feel like I'm treating my truck as best I can, which makes me feel better.

I was impressed by TDR writer and Dodge truck expert, John Holmes, at a TDR May Madness seminar he hosted a couple of years ago. His plan is to change oil every 3,000 miles or 6 months, which astounded the audience. His reasoning was acids in the oil caused by condensation. Acids don't filter out and don't show up as wear minerals, so the only cure is to change the oil. That's a little hard to swallow for most people, but he is a credible source.

To get the post back on topic - I just sent off my first oil analysis, awaiting results. Hopefully it will be nice, and I don't know if I'll ever analyze again. My plan is to change engine filter (LF3894) every 5,000 miles, oil every 10,000 miles, by-pass filter every 20,000 miles. Hopefully that's reasonable, not cheap, but hopefully a sound policy.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[CCiatteo]

I almost hate to tell you this, but the TDR has documented a few Cummins that made 1 million miles and they didn't use synthetic oil. They used Shell Rotella T. Also, in the oil analysis that ran through the early 50's issues of the TDR, the oil specialist indicated that high detergency oil was hard on flat tappet camshafts such as found in the Cummins.



I would (and do) put my extra money into the rest of the truck. The Cummins will outlive the rest anyway, so every penny wasted on synthetic (unless neede for extreme cold weather) could be spent on the rest of the truck and its accessories. Like the Smarty for example.

We'll see how the next anaylsis goes at the 10,000 mile mark. If the results are marginal I can always go back to the dino juice, but after reading the most recent couple of issues the whole CI+4 and CJ debate has me concernced for my older 12v. The CJ based oils don't seem to stack up to the older oils, at least purely on lab tests. So that got me thinking sythetics, which got me thinking extended drain intervals and by-pass filtration. That's where I am at, but sometimes simple is better. I'll drag this up top again in 5000 miles after another round of tests.

 

[CCiatteo]

Clean oil is good. The real question isn't synthetic vs. conventional or brand x vs. brand y. The real question is driving conditions. Long distance driving is easiest on the motor and any oil will do. I typically drive 50-60 miles in stop and go traffic, starting and shutting down the engine 2-10 times a day. This is much harder duty than rolling down the highway 500-600 miles at a time. Someone who has put a half-million miles on their truck and swears by some oil isn't driving the way I do. I've put 85,000 miles on my truck in 6 years - short trips in town, long trips usually towing.



I had a next-door neighbor who was an owner-operator trucker (husband/wife team). They would by a new truck every 2 yrs or 400,000 miles, which ever came first - no out of warranty for them. They would also be on the road for 2 or 3 weeks at a time and say - we start the motor before we leave home, and shut it off when we get back home.



I'd like to think that synthetic oil is better for my duty type, and that oil-bypass filtration is better than stock high-flow only. Throw in the cost of an oil analysis, and even with extended drain intervals, I'm not saving money. But I feel like I'm treating my truck as best I can, which makes me feel better.



I was impressed by TDR writer and Dodge truck expert, John Holmes, at a TDR May Madness seminar he hosted a couple of years ago. His plan is to change oil every 3,000 miles or 6 months, which astounded the audience. His reasoning was acids in the oil caused by condensation. Acids don't filter out and don't show up as wear minerals, so the only cure is to change the oil. That's a little hard to swallow for most people, but he is a credible source.



To get the post back on topic - I just sent off my first oil analysis, awaiting results. Hopefully it will be nice, and I don't know if I'll ever analyze again. My plan is to change engine filter (LF3894) every 5,000 miles, oil every 10,000 miles, by-pass filter every 20,000 miles. Hopefully that's reasonable, not cheap, but hopefully a sound policy.



Cheers,

Neil

I think the last part is ultimately what everyone is shooting for and this is a maintenance schedule that they feel best matches their truck and driving style/conditions. At least that's what I am shooting for.



I could run dino juice and change it every 3000, but that seems excessive and borderline wasteful with respect to time/money/resources. I was running Valvoline PB and changing at the 5000 mark, but can't get CI+ based Valvoline PB oil anymore so that lead to me taking a look at synthetics. So if I can go one year on an oil change without putting the truck in harms way, then I see that as a win/win/win (time/money/resources) situation. Until I get that level of comfort I'll test the oil and see what's happening. If I can't get the level of comfort, I'll go back to the 5000 mile routine.



Your results may vary.....

 

[CCiatteo]

We'll see how the next anaylsis goes at the 10,000 mile mark. If the results are marginal I can always go back to the dino juice, but after reading the most recent couple of issues the whole CI+4 and CJ debate has me concernced for my older 12v. The CJ based oils don't seem to stack up to the older oils, at least purely on lab tests. So that got me thinking sythetics, which got me thinking extended drain intervals and by-pass filtration. That's where I am at, but sometimes simple is better. I'll drag this up top again in 5000 miles after another round of tests.

Well, I promised to drag this up top again and here are the results after almost one year and 16,145 miles on the oil. I do plan an oil change in the next couple of days. The oil in question is Amsoil heavy duty diesel/marine 15w40 using their filter. I use about a quart of oil every 4 to 5,000 miles, so over the course of this drain interval I have added 4 quarts. I do not do a lot of heavy towing or hauling (general home improvement stuff for the most part) and travel 18 miles each way to work mostly highway. Sampling is done with a valve and engine at full operating temp.



DATE SAMPLED 07/07/08

DATE RECEIVED 07/14/08

DATE COMPLETED 07/16/08



MANUFACTURER/MODEL: CUMMINS 5. 9L, 6 CYL

LUBE MFR: AMSOIL

LUBE TYPE - GRADE: SYNTHETIC HD DIESEL OIL SAE 15W40



Wear Metals (PPM):

IRON 25

CHROMIUM 2

NICKEL 0

ALUMINUM 5

COPPER 3

LEAD 4

TIN 1

SILVER 0

TITANIUM 0

VANDIUM 0



CONTAMINANT METALS (PPM):

SILICON 5

SODIUM 10

POTASSIUM 2



MULTI-SOURCE METALS (PPM):

MOLYBDENUM 5

ANITIMONY 0

LITHIUM 0

BORON 6



ADDITIVE METALS (PPM):

MAGNESIUM 87

CALCIUM 3820

BARIUM 0

PHOSPHORUS 1273

ZINC 1448



FUEL <0. 5%

SOOT <0. 1%

WATER <0. 1

VIS 100C CS 13. 2



TBN 8. 09



OVERALL SEVERITY 1 (0-1 NORMAL, 2 AB NORMAL, 3-4 CRITICAL)



How do these numbers look given the conditions? I think this approach seems reasonable for my situation. I wouldn't go any further. I don't think because the benefit is justified.



Any input?



Thanks

Chris