FS2500 observations

[Gary - K7GLD]

I have a question. Why is it that it seems if some one posts something other than an amsoil. A lot of people do dog them out and tell them that they need to us there stuff i. e. mainly the amsoil dealers. I understand they want the business. But what is wrong with the other brands?

WELL, one of the benefits of threads like this is exposure to various brands/types of aftermarket stuff. The Amsoil bypass filters are probably the most common among users here - but threads like this DO help spotlite the others also available.



MY "pet gripe", is a thread that promises to provide reasonably well documented info - but instead provides only vague "seat of the pants" observations that are actually pretty meaningless. Performance goodies are for PERFORMANCE - and info regarding them are sorta worthless without at least SOME power improvement data - dyno runs, quarter mile times, etc...



Similarly, thread info about a device designed and marketed for cleaning engine lube is ALSO pretty worthless without at least SOME supporting data that clearly displays that it indeed DOES clean the oil - and yeah, something better than "very low particulates, very low soot" - which actually provides NO supporting info to measure against other similar competing systems - after all, virtually ALL aftermarket bypass filters will reduce soot and other grunge to SOME degree - the pertinent and DESIRED info, is what one will do as compared to others.



As in this thread - after reading it, I really have no better idea as to ACTUAL filter performance and efficiency of this brand than I did before reading it...



OH - and as far as the Amsoil dealers here - give 'em a break - they are all good guys, and most are excellent contributors on a WIDE variety of subjects on the board - I for one, and glad they are here - the Amsoil PR they sometimes post here is easily ignored if I don't like it...

 

[robmints]

I have a question. Why is it that it seems if some one posts something other than an amsoil. A lot of people do dog them out and tell them that they need to us there stuff i. e. mainly the amsoil dealers. I understand they want the business. But what is wrong with the other brands?

I have seen people write what you are saying here before. I'm not sure if it was on this site or not. I think it does truly seem like people beat the Amsoil drum and beat down other products more than it actually happens. It would be nice if people would go back and find specific quotes to reference before they accuse the people that use or sell Amsoil. Sure they like the stuff and believe in it, so they say so. But it is few and far between where they bash other products. If they feel they have good reason they may criticize or otherwise point out weaknesses. But that is no different than what most people would do if they were trying to help. Matter of fact, I think the guys that really take Amsoil seriously, like Wayne and Herb, they seem to go out of their way to stay positive on the Amsoil side rather than negative on the others products.



I'm not an Amsoil dealer. I'm kind of thinking about an Eaa189 drop-in and I think I have 5-40 Euro formula in my wifes Passat. And I use their compressor oil in my compressor at work that sits in an unheated warehouse or it will blow the fuse if I use dino. Otherwise I like Redline. It is in my truck and is what I have as spare oil on the shelf in the garage.

 

[JWendt]

I didn't mean to ruffle anyones feather. I am was just kind of stating an opinion of what i see. When i need to do my next oil change i am probaly going to go with amsoil. I am fairly new to diesel truck engines. So i read and want to learn about everything out there. But what i mostly read on here is about amsoil thats all. Sorry if i made any one mad.

 

[steved]

... but actual display of NUMBERS is what it's all about - how about posting yours so we can actually SEE what "low" means in real numbers...

I'm still waiting for those... I'm curious as to how the FS2500 works... so I have something similar to compare my GCF to eventually.



steved

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I'm still waiting for those... I'm curious as to how the FS2500 works... so I have something similar to compare my GCF to eventually.



steved

You've already been a good supplier of oil/filter related data - and it's much appreciated Steve - as the older members here already know, oil and filtration is one of my leading interests, so I tend to hit all related threads to glean whatever additional info I can - always looking for something better! :-laf

 

[KZimmermann]

Just did my first oil change with the fs-2500. Only 5k on the oil from a new crate motor. I will post the results as soon as I get them back from Blackstone.

 

[JHardwick]

somebody donate me a bypass system :-laf



IF, IF, the donated system provides adequate protection and filtration (judged by TDR members according to posted samples) I'll pay for it and embrace it wholeheartedly!

 

[ENafziger]

Well, I just sent off my oil sample to Blackstone today, and requested a particle size analysis as well. In a week or so I should be able to post some numbers for the OilGuard bypass system. I'm also using a FilterMag (strong magnet claiming it can capture 2 micron metal size particles). We'll see... --Eric

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Well, I just sent off my oil sample to Blackstone today, and requested a particle size analysis as well. In a week or so I should be able to post some numbers for the OilGuard bypass system. I'm also using a FilterMag (strong magnet claiming it can capture 2 micron metal size particles). We'll see... --Eric

As it happens, I also sent a 10,000 mile Delo 400 CI4+ sample to blackstone yesterday - Frantz bypass, some zero degree winter weather driving and lots of RV tow mileage - I also have strong magnets in the oil flow path inside the bypass filter. I have also requested tests for TBN, TAN and a particle counts...



Let the comparisons begin! Oo. :-laf

 

[ENafziger]

As it happens, I also sent a 10,000 mile Delo 400 CI4+ sample to blackstone yesterday - Frantz bypass, some zero degree winter weather driving and lots of RV tow mileage - I also have strong magnets in the oil flow path inside the bypass filter. I have also requested tests for TBN, TAN and a particle counts...

Actually, this ought to be really good. I also had 10,000 miles on my oil... Rotella Synthetic 5w-40. I too have gone through the winter with mine, and have accumulated about half of the mileage towing 7,000 lbs, and loaded with 1,200 lbs cargo.



It doesn't really matter to me which turns out to be the best... I had been looking at the FS2500, but ended up with the OilGaurd because it went on sale. I'd happily switch to another type of filtration if it offered significantly better protection. How many miles are on your truck? Mine just turned 36,000. --Eric

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Actually, this ought to be really good. I also had 10,000 miles on my oil... Rotella Synthetic 5w-40. I too have gone through the winter with mine, and have accumulated about half of the mileage towing 7,000 lbs, and loaded with 1,200 lbs cargo.



It doesn't really matter to me which turns out to be the best... I had been looking at the FS2500, but ended up with the OilGaurd because it went on sale. I'd happily switch to another type of filtration if it offered significantly better protection. How many miles are on your truck? Mine just turned 36,000. --Eric

I have over 50K miles on my '02 - probably not yet fully seated in, but close - my '91 took 100K miles for wear numbers to totally stabilize! They were always GOOD, but just kept getting BETTER! :-laf



I'm always interested in filter comparisons - but also interested in some numbers that provide higher change interval comparisons with the new CJ lubes as compared to the previous CI4+ stuff I am using. I suspect the newer stuff will prove out OK on shorter oil change intervals, but begin losing effectiveness at higher mileage usage - time will tell!

 

[steved]

... but begin losing effectiveness at higher mileage usage - time will tell!

What do you consider extended usage?



steved

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

What do you consider extended usage?



steved

I'd be looking very closely at TBN and TAN numbers after 10K miles or so with the CJ stuff. We pretty well know about where the lowest acceptable TBN and TAN numbers fall - what *I* don't know, is how fast lube related problems (wear, sludge, etc. ) begin to occur when they get near or below those numbers...



I've gone 20K miles on CI4 Delo, and was recommended to keep on going with it by Blackstone - TBN was 8. 2. and TAN was 0. 7 at the 20K mark - I seriously doubt the CJ stuff would fare as well under similar mileage in my setup.

 

[steved]

With just shy of 10k, my TBN was 6. 7 on Rotella CJ-4...



One thing we seem to forget, since the oil manufacturers can't rely on the old "methods" of controlling wear, they might be actually using some new methods that wouldn't necessarily show in a typical UOA (other than the evidence of low wear metals)...



steved

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

With just shy of 10k, my TBN was 6. 7 on Rotella CJ-4...



One thing we seem to forget, since the oil manufacturers can't rely on the old "methods" of controlling wear, they might be actually using some new methods that wouldn't necessarily show in a typical UOA (other than the evidence of low wear metals)...



steved

Not to hijack the thread topic - but since we're headed this way...



The "accepted" yardstick for TBN readings has typically been that the oil was ready/needed to be changed when TBN was reduced to half of it's original value - I've never read any in-depth discussion regarding TAN.



As to the new CJ rated lubes, I have my own personal theory - and THAT is that the requirement and need for that rating sorta caught the refiners by surprise - just as the requirement for ULSD diesel did - and even still, some areas haven't fully come up to speed with the ULSD, leaving owners of new trucks in a bit of a bind at some times and locations.



Chevron barely a year prior to the release of their CJ series of lubes, had spent LOTS of $$$, time and effort in obtaining SAE certification and releasing their improved CI4 Plus Delo 400 - an oil that is now obsolete and getting harder to find for those like me who prefer it for my older engine that doesn't require or possibly even benefit from the newer CJ series.



Personally, I don't for a moment think outfits like Chevron would have gone to the trouble and expense of developing their CI4 Plus stuff IF they had known or anticipated the need for the CJ stuff mere months after it's release - and further, I seriously suspect that the current CJ stuff will prove to be a stop-gap, relatively temporary "fix" in lubes that will relatively soon be modified or replaced by a lube that is more robust and better suited for later engines.



THAT'S my theory - and I'm stuck with it - time will tell... :-laf

 

[PRout]

Delo 15/40 oil at approx 40k miles. The mileage numbers on the samples in the report were only estimated but this oil was replaced new just after turning 100k miles and has not been changed since (except after taking this sample). Oil was very black in color. Odometer read 145,899 miles.

Using two Frantz filters in series without a restriction orifice tapped off the plug on top of the OEM filter and returns direct to the side of the oil pan. Used TP rolls purchased direct from Debbie at Frantz.

Edited: Used 2 quarts of make up oil since the previous sample.

Air Filter mostly used was an AFE PG7 Conical type, very large used BHAF style. Gave very good flow and the silicone number indicates its filtering ability.


I suspect there is still some center tube leakage which I plan to correct using 2 inch long tubes that will hold o-rings in place about half way up the tube (future project).


Here's the results, still waiting for the particle count to arrive in the mail, and will add it to this post.

Note: Very impressed with the promptness of Blackstone Labs. Very Fast indeed!

Thanks,
Phil

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Delo 15/40 oil at approx 40k miles. The mileage numbers on the samples in the report were only estimated but this oil was replaced new just after turning 100k miles and has not been changed since (except after taking this sample). Oil was very black in color. Odometer read 145,899 miles.



Using two Frantz filters in series without a restriction orifice tapped off the plug on top of the OEM filter and returns direct to the side of the oil pan. Used TP rolls purchased direct from Debbie at Frantz.



Edited: Used 2 quarts of make up oil since the previous sample.



Air Filter mostly used was an AFE PG7 Conical type, very large used BHAF style. Gave very good flow and the silicone number indicates its filtering ability.



I suspect there is still some center tube leakage which I plan to correct using 2 inch long tubes that will hold o-rings in place about half way up the tube (future project).





Here's the results, still waiting for the particle count to arrive in the mail, and will add it to this post.



Note: Very impressed with the promptness of Blackstone Labs. Very Fast indeed!



Thanks,

Phil

Phil, that looks quite good for 40K miles on dino oil - certainly rivals any Amsoil oil plus bypass I have seen - not knocking Amsoil, just the only similar popular competing synthetic and bypass setup I have seen posted results on - great results, thanks for sharing!



The particle count should be interesting as well - and as I keep saying, you don't have to use expensive synthetics to take advantage of extended oil drain intervals...

 

[SHobbs]

Gary,



I am curious about the Frantz set up. Have you ever had the T. P fall apart? We all know what happens to T. P in water. Inquiring minds want to know, lol. I would like to extend the interval a little more, every 6k gets kinda pricey. This is one of the great things about the TDR, everything gets thrown out there good bad and ugly. Discussions like this makes me glad I made the choice to join.

 

[PRout]

Thanks Gary. . Agreed. .

And not trying to say our Frantzes are better than all the others or worse, but they do seem to stay pretty consistent judging between the posts youve been sharing and others alike. And the filter elements are certainly easily attainable at around a buck a piece. The simplicity is a plus.

I definitely am not going to let the oil go that long again, but do think it is reasonable to change it out once a year (like when spring time comes). Also, ended up burning that last load after circulating it through another frantz fuel filter without any known problems. It ran fine, almost free fuel even!

Am still interested in the FS2500 as it does APPEAR to be a good filter from their video. If we can see some actual test results and they look worth it, I wouldnt mind plumbing one inline after a Frantz. Just a thought, but cant even imagine spending those bucks without seeing some real "unbiased" numbers. .

Particle count to follow. . Thanks.

 

[PRout]

Gary,

I am curious about the Frantz set up. Have you ever had the T. P fall apart? We all know what happens to T. P in water. Inquiring minds want to know, lol. I would like to extend the interval a little more, every 6k gets kinda pricey. This is one of the great things about the TDR, everything gets thrown out there good bad and ugly. Discussions like this makes me glad I made the choice to join.

In a previous analysis I specifically asked if there were any paper fibers found in the sample, and the answer was something like "None, the insolubles indicate excellent filtration". Just make sure you get the roll installed pretty snugly would be good advice. I think Gary even adds an extra measure of protection for that as well.