Fuel additive or not?

[lawrence47]

I will recieve my new Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 automatic crew cab long bed inferno red in two days. I would like comments on whether or not to use the Stanadyne additive I've been using in my 96 Dodge 5. 9L diesel. The dealer says I don't have to. Will it pay dividends down the road? I will certainly use Stanadyne's products during the cold season.

 

[DHess]

I use Stanadyne every fill-up in the winter and every other fill-up in the warmer weather. I know it's probably not necessary but it's peace of mind if nothing else. For me the only negative to using fuel additives is to the wallet, and only positive effects for the truck.



Dave

 

[lawrence47]

Since you also have a 2010, has the use of additives affected the way the DPF works? Have you seen better performance from a better burn for lack of a better term causing less soot in the DPF?



Larry.

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10' RAM 2500 4X4, 6. 7L, 6 spd automatic and compression brake.

 

[lawrence47]

Hello DHess, One item I'm wondering about is how the additive will effect the DPF. Do you see an extended cleaning cycle with versus without additive, and do you see an extended oil change cycle?



Larry



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10' 2500 4X4, Auto, Crew Cab, LB, fifth wheel hitch, Spray in bedliner

 

[DHess]

Larry - Haven't got enough miles on the '10 to answer your questions, only have 2600 miles on it. Since I use the additive pretty regular I won't see any difference.

 

[HBarlow]

For a lot longer than I've been a Dodge-Cummins owner the Dodge owners manual and Cummins, Inc. for every model year have stated fuel additives are not necessary and not recommended.

That policy is even more important with the ISB6. 7 engine with DPF.

 

[67guzzler]

I will recieve my new Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 automatic crew cab long bed inferno red in two days. I would like comments on whether or not to use the Stanadyne additive I've been using in my 96 Dodge 5. 9L diesel. The dealer says I don't have to. Will it pay dividends down the road? I will certainly use Stanadyne's products during the cold season.

Fuel additive or not? Not.

 

[lawrence47]

Gentlemen, this is a curious situation. You are saying that the Dodge engineers are saying no to additives. And a Bosch professionally trained injector pump speciallist is highly recommending Stanadyne. You can understand my puzzlement. What should I do if I have doubts about the additive in winter fuel from the pump? My friends that own diesels say don't get caught without it come the first breath of winter. I would like a little more proof positive evidence that I shouldn't add additive to my fuel for the new 6. 7L so for now I will refrain. I really don't want to ruin a good thing. Can anyone else add to this thread? Larry.



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2010 Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 6. 7L, automatic, crew cab, long bed, sprayed in bedliner, hijacker fifth wheel hitch.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Dodge absolutely cannot void your warranty for using Fuel Additive. In winter months in colder climates you most likely CANNOT avoid it. Standard #2 diesel fuel will reach it's cloud point and clog your fuel filter when the snow starts to fly, and we haven't even got into winter yet. Winterized #2 will go slightly colder, but not much. When I say winterized #2, I'm talking about what most people would consider "straight # 2" however, in the winter even it has some stuff added to it to prevent it from gelling in the storage tanks. Now we move on to "winterized #2" like most people know. This can be done in two ways, blending #2 with #1 to various percentages to achieve lower and lower cloud points, and blending #2 with additive as it is added to the storage tank at the fuel station.

More and more truck stops are choosing the latter method for two reasons, 1. It is cheaper and easier to do. and 2. you achieve better performance and fuel mileage than with using a #2 / #1 mix.

I have owned and operated a truck stop for 14 years and have always chosen to run fuel with additive. All of my fuel pumps have 2 nozzles where the driver can choose either a "straight #2" or a "winterized #2" which is blended with Power Service additive. Not all truck stops offer a "straight #2" option (I'm in MT) but I have numerous customers who either leave their truck running 24/7 in cold climates, or have heated fuel tanks and fuel filters. Newer trucks when left running return so much hot fuel to the fuel tanks the diesel will never get cold enough to cloud at moderate temperatures. However those guys still carry a bottle of additive with them they dump in when the temp dips well below zero.

So basically, how can Dodge say "You fueled at that Big Name Brand Truck Stop on the Interstate? Well, I'm voiding your warranty for it!"

 

[HBarlow]

Each Dodge-Cummins owner has the absolute right to do anything he or she wishes to do with his or her truck but does not have an absolute right to demand warranty repairs for damage or failure that results from ignoring or willfully violating terms of the warranty stated in the owner's manual.

Anyone who states that "Dodge cannot void a warranty for ... ... . " is engaging in wishful thinking based on truck stop misinformation. Dodge can and occasionally does void warranties.

We have seen a number of TDR members (with a long list of engine modifications in their signatures) complain angrily here in the forums after their engine failed. They have bluffed and blustered about what they are going to do about it but I have NEVER read or heard of anyone that prevailed against corporate Dodge, or any manufacturer for that matter, when the owner had violated the terms of the warranty.

Auto manufacturers don't just arbitrarily void warranties for no reason. It has always seemed to me that auto manufacturers were pretty lenient if a dealer wanted to help the customer. We've all heard of owners who damaged their cars and trucks and received repairs or replacements under warranty.

The manufacturers have teams of lawyers whose job is to defend the company. It is very expensive and difficult to challenge them in court and the average Dodge owner is not likely to try after he gets over his initial anger.

If a new Ram with Cummins ISB6. 7 ends up with a plugged DPF during the warranty period and corporate Dodge, which is struggling financially and taking measures to cut costs including warranty costs, determines that the filter, in their opinion, was contaminated by fuel additives, all the company has to do is void the warranty and advise the customer. Their position, if they make that decision, is firmly supported by the warning in the Dodge owner's manual. Dodge doesn't have to PROVE anything but if they end up in court we can be sure that they will have witnesses including engineers, chemists, spokesmen from the company who manufactured the DPF, and experienced service department personnel from the corporate and dealer level to testify in support of their position.

We're not talking about blended winter fuel here or a jug of Power Service for anti-gel on a day when temps are below 15*. I used an occasional bottle of Power Service anti-gel when I was transporting and my route took me across the northern US or into Canada. That has always been acceptable and even necessary in northern climates.

Each to his own. I wouldn't do it but I only make decisions regarding my own truck.

 

[HBarlow]

... ..... [snip]

You are saying that the Dodge engineers are saying no to additives. And a Bosch professionally trained injector pump speciallist is highly recommending Stanadyne. ... ..... [snip]QUOTE]

Ask yourself which of the two spokesman you mentioned is employed by the company who issued the warranty and is going to pay thousands of dollars to repair the truck if a component fails during the warranty period.

Auto dealership service departments and engine injector/injection pump service shops are full of self-appointed experts who generously offer bad advice and wrong information to customers. I had one at a local Dodge dealer (where I will not buy trucks) who was too lazy and poorly trained to diagnose a performance issue on my high mileage '06 advise me to dump chemicals in the fuel tank. I ignored him, inquired on TDR, and replaced the FCA and cured my own problem. My truck was well out of warranty and I was a paying customer. I heard recently that that mechanic was finally fired from the dealership. His "pink slip" was long overdue IMO.

We have several sharp and well-trained Dodge dealer diesel techs among our TDR membership. They offer good advice based on genuine training and knowledge. Most dealer techs are parts changers with limited diagnosis skills.

In fairness to the trained Bosch injector tech, he is trained on and thinking about what, in his opinion, might be best for an injector and injection pump. Remember, he is a technician, not an engineer.

The Dodge warranty covers the entire vehicle including the downstream exhaust components during the warranty period. Dodge engineers have to consider what will happen to the DPF not just the injectors.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Anyone who states that "Dodge cannot void a warranty for ... ... . " is engaging in wishful thinking based on truck stop misinformation.

I resent that statement, truckstop misinformation? My previous message was not misinformation, I have been selling diesel fuel for 14 years, my supplier, many more years than that. I'm not claiming to be a diesel fuel expert, but I AM claiming to know what is in the retail fuel the average customer is purchasing. I guarantee a large percentage of Diesel owners are burning additive in their fuel whether they know it or not.

Umm, sir, where exactly do YOU buy YOUR fuel? I'd be willing to bet it's from a large fuel franchise. If you're buying it from a small one hose shop on the corner, you're opening yourself up for a whole new set of problems (water in the fuel, etc. ) Diesel fuel should always be bought from a location that dispenses large amounts to try and get the cleanest fuel possible. My location dispenses more than a million gallons each year.

We're not talking about blended winter fuel here or a jug of Power Service for anti-gel on a day when temps are below 15*. I used an occasional bottle of Power Service anti-gel when I was transporting and my route took me across the northern US or into Canada. That has always been acceptable and even necessary in northern climates.

Actually, that IS what I was talking about. In the winter most people will be burning additive knowingly or unknowingly. If Dodge were to void a warranty based solely on the fact that the customer had burned additive, there would be much larger repercussions than one unsatisfied customer. I would bet Pilot, T/A, Flying J, whoever would get on board that fight. They're not going to stand for Dodge voiding warranties based on the fuel they sell. And you can bet their suppliers would back them as well. And in the current state of the economy, I'm sure Shell, Exxon, etc. have even more money and even bigger teams of lawyers than Dodge does.



Cheers!

 

[67guzzler]

I think that the spirit of this thread is -- with this super refined 6. 7 with all the fancy emissions stuff, will additives really help at all (other than cold weather management)? My guess is probably not. Ultra low sulfer fuel burns cleaner and Cummins has stated since day 1 that additives are not necessary. If using an additive could aid avoiding warranty problems down the road, you bet Cummins would say use xxxxx additive. But they don't. So for me, it simply makes sense to save my dough and only buy for ultra cold climates.

Think of it this way -- You can't hurt anything by not over-thinking anything and putting stuff in. You can hurt something by putting stuff in if you don't know what or why you're putting it in.

Do Nothing: Doesn't break.
Do Something: Might break.

The only exception is to avoid gelling. And I think the 6. 7 heats the fuel rails back to the tank to avoid this too.

 

[lawrence47]

Gentlemen, I truely thank you for your insight and comments. I do not want to be my own warrenty provider. I will refrain from attitives other than treating fuel when it gets cold. There have been several friends that were caught by cold weather and a stalled rig. I will ask the service manager what I should use since it is he whom I would deal with if I have a problem. Again, I look to the knowledge base of the TDR membership to educate me for I am as yet a babe in the woods as regaurds diesel engines. Thank you for your help over the past two years. Sincerely, Larry.



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2010 Dodge Ram 2500, 4X4, 6. 7L, auto, ClubCab, Long Bed, sprayed in bedliner, hijacker fifth wheel hitch, and no mods.

 

[HBarlow]

I resent that statement, truckstop misinformation? My previous message was not misinformation, I have been selling diesel fuel for 14 years, my supplier, many more years than that. I'm not claiming to be a diesel fuel expert, but I AM claiming to know what is in the retail fuel the average customer is purchasing. I guarantee a large percentage of Diesel owners are burning additive in their fuel whether they know it or not.
Umm, sir, where exactly do YOU buy YOUR fuel? I'd be willing to bet it's from a large fuel franchise. If you're buying it from a small one hose shop on the corner, you're opening yourself up for a whole new set of problems (water in the fuel, etc. ) Diesel fuel should always be bought from a location that dispenses large amounts to try and get the cleanest fuel possible. My location dispenses more than a million gallons each year.



Actually, that IS what I was talking about. In the winter most people will be burning additive knowingly or unknowingly. If Dodge were to void a warranty based solely on the fact that the customer had burned additive, there would be much larger repercussions than one unsatisfied customer. I would bet Pilot, T/A, Flying J, whoever would get on board that fight. They're not going to stand for Dodge voiding warranties based on the fuel they sell. And you can bet their suppliers would back them as well. And in the current state of the economy, I'm sure Shell, Exxon, etc. have even more money and even bigger teams of lawyers than Dodge does.

Cheers!

My first statement about "truck stop misinformation" was not an intentional insult to you but a reference to the general rumors and misinformation that we both know and understand is spread among truck owners and drivers anywhere they assemble. "Furd owns Cummins" is a perfect example.

I have purchased about 99% of diesel fuel since 2001 from Flying J when I bought my first Dodge-Cummins. I do not believe that Flying J adds anything to fuel but their suppliers might. Additives blended in by the fuel distributor is beyond owner control and is not what Dodge/Cummins/the original poster/or I was referring to and this is June, a warm month, the original poster was not inquiring about anti-gel additive, he was asking about ordinary warm weather additives. IIRC the Dodge owners manual and Cummins written guidance may include a caveat regarding use of anti-gel when necessary to avoid fuel gelling. Fuel in the factory fuel tank and engine is recycled sufficiently to avoid gelling when the engine is running, of course, but I think we would agree that when parked overnight it can and will gel. That was the reason I added Power Service anti-gel in cold northern climates.

The main point of my post above was to disagree with the statement that Dodge cannot void a warranty. On calmer reflection I think you would agree that Dodge can and does when the terms of the warranty and warnings in the owner's manual are violated. Use of anti-gel additives in diesel fuel in cold weather would not violate the warranty.