Fuel Delivery Redesign: "Project Number Two"

[Matt400]

Dang Ryan. . I wonder what mods you would be running if you were into horsepower?



I bet it would be twin turbo's, injectors, stacked boxes, cammed, ram aired using NACA Ducts and Donaldson Power Core Filtration. The NACA Ducts of course would have remote controlled doors for wet weather use. Oh and of course your fuel system!



Good job, I enjoyed reading all your work.

 

[rbattelle]

Dang Ryan. . I wonder what mods you would be running if you were into horsepower?

I bet it would be twin turbo's,

I'd have 2 turbos, but there'd be what I would call an "inter-turbine burner" between them; basically a secondary combustion chamber between the 2 turbines. :-laf



Seriously, it is my hope that perhaps in some small way I've inspired someone else out there that if what you're looking for doesn't seem to be available on the market then you can make it yourself with a little time, effort, and a whole lot of cash!



-Ryan

 

[KBennett]

All I can say is that I can relate, I feel your pain, and been there done that.



I almost burned my GTO to the ground last year. I got it out in the spring and took it for a spin around the block. When I was backing into the driveway it started running rough and I could here a ticking sound under the hood. Popped the hood and found a spark plug wire had popped loose so I put it back on without checking why it had popped off.

The next morning I took it to the gas station and while turning into the gas station black smoke started puring out from under the hood. I quickly shut off the car, jumped out, popped the hood, and found a small fire under the motor by the exhaust header. Long story short, the fuel line on the fuel pump to the carb had sprung a small pinhole leak and was spraying fuel directly on the hot headers. The spark plug wire had started to droop because of age and was catching on the steering shaft causing it to pull off the plug so that as I was pulling into the gas station making a hard right turn it came off and arced causing the fuel to ignite. The only damage was a little bit of bubbled paint on the fender well.



A suggestion that may help your fuel temp issue. Painting the fuel filter housing silver rather than black(black absorbs heat) may help reflect the heat.

 

[rbattelle]

A suggestion that may help your fuel temp issue. Painting the fuel filter housing silver rather than black(black absorbs heat) may help reflect the heat.

Excellent suggestion, but it turns out fuel temp doesn't appear to be any problem at all. There is so much airflow through that portion of the engine compartment during driving and even whilst idling with the engine running that the secondary filter and the hoses and lines all feel cool to the touch. Then, the only potential problem is heat soak after the engine has been shut off. I have shut down the truck and restarted it several times already after sitting for 45 minutes or so (at which point the mount/filter temperature should be at maximum) with absolutely no problems at all.



So far, the only "quirk" with the system lies in the pump and associated speed controller. Sometimes the speed setting must be cranked up a few notches in order to get the pump to start rotation before cranking the engine, after which it can be dialed back to "normal". The reason, of course, is that the pump sometimes requires a slightly higher starting torque (i. e. current) to get moving. I have 2 theories where this comes from:



1. The last time the pump stopped it did so in such a way that each brush is 1/2 way across 2 armature contacts, so full current is not flowing into the armature.



2. The brushes have not yet fully broken in, so they still have some "high spots" in them.



Time will tell if that quirk will go away. In the meantime it's only a minor annoyance.



This system, if it is successful, has some interesting application to bombing. It would be very interesting to tie in the speed controller to the power level setting on something like an Edge to automatically increase fuel flow rate to the CP-3 as different power levels are demanded. The same could possibly be done using an RPM signal instead, thereby creating an electronic version of the RASP system. Either way it allows you to balance lift pump life against high fuel flow demands, and allows even massive-capacity fuel pumps with extremely high flow rates to be used on trucks that are daily drivers but raced on the weekend. If I were more of an entrepreneur, perhaps there could be a market for a more "plug and play" friendly version of this system.



-Ryan

 

[rbattelle]

Another side benefit

I just changed the factory fuel filter, and boy does having a downstream polishing filter take the pressure off!! I mean, in the past I was very worried and very careful about getting any contaminants on the clean half of the filter assembly, but now that I know there's a 2-micron filter downstream it doesn't really matter so much!



I actually took the time to inspect into the bottom of the stock canister and found a large amount of large pieces of dirt and grit (as others have reported). I took the time to wipe out the bottom and the rags were coming back BLACK.



I really wish Fleetguard had designed the filter as a canister like the Stanadyne rather than a replaceable element type. The canister type seems much less prone to contamination, and since you change out the "bowl" with every filter change there's never any chance for dirt to accumulate over time.



-Ryan

 

[KKilmer]

We Have An Updated Pump For The 2003-2004 Trucks, Kit Comes With An In-tank Pump And Wiring. Cost Is Around $350. 00 I Think, Was Told They Are Making Them For Back To 1998 And Up

 

[rbattelle]

Leak

Inspected the pump this evening and discovered it's leaking. Looks to me like it's leaking out of the gasketed sealing plates on the bottom (remember I'm using the Aeromotive 11203 pump).



I think lmills mentioned that his 11203 did the same thing after a few months of service. CSutton7 never had this issue, that I'm aware of, so I'm wondering what me and lmills did wrong.



I have a spare 11203, so I took that one out in anticipation of a swap. Just to check, I tried tightening the sealing plate screws; lowe and behold they were not very tight from the factory. That would explain the leakage on the one currently on the truck.



I'll probably try tightening the screws on the leaker to see if that fixes the leak first.



-Ryan

 

[roverhybrids]

I'm to lazy to try and read back through this but are you using a bypass regulator?

or was it varying amps or something?

 

[rbattelle]

I'm to lazy to try and read back through this but are you using a bypass regulator?

or was it varying amps or something?

I don't blame you, this is a very long thread.



I'm using a pulse-width modulator to control pump RPM. No regulator required. I run the pump at probably 1/3 or 1/2 of full RPM.



-Ryan

 

[LesStallings]

Ryan,



Is it OK if I drop my truck off at your place for a week, or if you need longer to install your fuel system, just let me know!

 

[rbattelle]

Is it OK if I drop my truck off at your place for a week, or if you need longer to install your fuel system, just let me know!

I'll take that as a compliment... thank you.



One of the ideas of running a big pump like the Aeromotive at 1/2 speed (or less) was to ensure the pump would last FOREVER. How ironic that 5 months later the pump works perfectly but leaks.



I hope tightening the screws fixes it, but I'm not optimistic [for whatever reason, I have the WORST luck with things leaking, and yet I can stop up a toilet to hold water like the Hoover dam... go figure ]



-Ryan

 

[LesStallings]

Have you tried the "presure flush" toilets that is a special order item from Home Depot. Not too expensive, easy replacement and has an accumulator that stores the flush water at line pressure to give an extra boost when you trip the lever.



Simple install since it does not require electrical connection like the "power flush" toilets.



Put one in (always use a new wax seal), and watch that stuff blast out of there!!! No ****!!!

 

[rbattelle]

Have you tried the "presure flush" toilets that is a special order item from Home Depot. Not too expensive, easy replacement and has an accumulator that stores the flush water at line pressure to give an extra boost when you trip the lever.



Simple install since it does not require electrical connection like the "power flush" toilets.



Put one in (always use a new wax seal), and watch that stuff blast out of there!!! No ****!!!

Now that's funny right there! My future dream house will have only "POWER FLUSH" (or pressure flush... which are the ones at public restrooms?) toilets.



Anyway, I tightened the sealing plate screws this afternoon... they were all looser than I'd have liked. Put the pump back in service, and we'll see what happens.



I've got her sister pump all tightened, sealed, and ready to go in if this one continues to leak.



-Ryan

 

[Matt400]

Have you tried the "presure flush" toilets

How noisy are those hydro blasters, is it like when Archie Bunker would flush upstairs?

 

[RMachida]

How noisy are those hydro blasters, is it like when Archie Bunker would flush upstairs?

Kind of noisy but for a very short amount of time...

 

[csutton7]

my pump has never leaked--but I had problems with the terminal screws getting loose and on the first pump and switched it out--remember my first pump was a used one that came off a boat--it worked for 2. 5yrs until I got tired of tightening the screws a few times and I was going on a hunting trip and decided to replace it--it is now my spare and the new one is working as well as the first---sounds like you found the prob--also I run my pump on full power(electric) and no probs---chris

 

[csutton7]

the pump I've been using is the 11101--it's not the same pump rbattelle is using--chris

 

[rbattelle]

Tightening the plate did nothing. The pump is leaking at quite a rate - enough to leave drips hanging from all the screws and bolts in the assembly.



I've taken the vehicle out of service, and will swap out the pump for a Holley Blue tomorrow afternoon (probably in the pouring rain ).



If lmills had the same problem with 2 separate Aeromotive 11203's and now I've got the problem I'm inclined to believe either Aeromotive has some serious quality issues or the pump seals are incompatible with diesel fuel.



I may disassemble the pump after removal to inspect it for problems.



-Ryan

 

[Hohn]

The Aeromotive pump to use is the #11108 Marine pump-- diesel certified.

 

[csutton7]

good find--



HP Marine USCG Fuel Pump P/N 11108



HP Extreme Duty Fuel Pump for Carbureted or EFI Fuel Delivery.



Three years of exhaustive research in composite materials, coatings, and electric motor technologies, combined with Aeromotive's unrivaled expertise in fuel system design, brings new standards to the marine industry. This new Aeromotive pump is the one and only pump in the world engineered to flow this kind of volume, at pressures from carburetor to EFI, with the built-in durability to survive over 2000 hours of continuous run time. Meet the toughest, most versatile and powerful fuel pump ever offered to the marine industry. Complete with a full, two year, factory direct warranty to back it up.





Certified to ISO 8846, SAE J1171 & United States Coast Guard Requirements for Ignition Protection & Fire Resistance.

Compatible with all pump and racing gasolines, incuding EPA oxygenated, and high grade diesel fuels.

Flows over 600 lbs. per hour @ 13. 5 Volts and 45 PSI.

Features Hi-flow, leak-free -10 AN O-ring inlet and outlet ports requiring O-ring or Boss fittings.

"Bullet Proof", Type III Black Hard Coat anodizing protects all exterior surfaces.

Requires apropriate bypass regulator for either carburetor or EFI systems.

Full, two year, factory direct warranty.



For carbureted engines:



Up to 1300 HP-naturally aspirated.

Up to 1100 HP-forced induction.

Requires Carb Regulator P/N 13207



For fuel injected engines:





Up to 1100 HP-naturally aspirated.

Up to 800 HP-forced induction.

Requires EFI Regulator P/N 13114



..... chris