Fuel Injector Summary

[LWells]

Cerb - on the partial serial number to verify new Bosch injectors, you said "238" was included, did you by chance mean 283?

 

[Martin_BBI]

Cerb - on the partial serial number to verify new Bosch injectors, you said "238" was included, did you by chance mean 283?

238 is the correct number.....
Here a slide with all the information needed to identify 5.9l injectors correctly
https://www.bigbanginjection.com/5.9l cummins injector identification

 

[CVR222NV]

Tune it for the stock injectors and add the filtration, you might get quite a few more miles out of it before you need to change them. If you are wanting the absolute most efficient tune then it would require the injectors you intend to run. However, that would require many dyno runs and extensive changes to match your setup, location, driving style, etc. You are not getting that with a custom internet tune, what you get will be what matches most of the setups they provide for. You should easily be able to control the differences between injectors with your right foot when you switch injectors as long as they are close.

If your goal is not to get more power or better efficiency because of better injectors, I would also do it like Cerb said and keep them as long as they do not cause any issues.

I have been running the GDP 2 Micron filter (FF5814) just before the CP3 and after the stock filter since 136,000 miles so good on filtration. The end goal is the most power and efficiency from the stock configuration so eventually (and probably sooner than later) going to upgrade to the BBI injectors. I will go with the "canned Internet tunes" with the stock injectors for now and do some data logging and get to know EFI Live while I search out a shop that can do some custom tuning after I get the new injectors. Knowing me it won't take long!

Thanks to LWells for starting the this thread and for all the great input from everyone (too many to list) but especially Cerb and Martin and of course TDR!

 

[LWells]

238 is the correct number.....
Here a slide with all the information needed to identify 5.9l injectors correctly
https://www.bigbanginjection.com/5.9l cummins injector identification

Thanks for the chart Martin

 

[LWells]

Cerb, Martin - decided I needed to keep to a lower budget so I went with new Bosch stock from Injectors Direct. The part number was not 238 but rather 007. Injectors Direct says that is a correct number for new Bosch. You all run across this number previously?

 

[cerberusiam]

Martin needs to decipher this. He will know exactly what that is.

That number , 007, is familiar from somewhere but do not remember what and where.

 

[Martin_BBI]

This number says it is the injector 0445120007.
You should not use that injector in a Dodge RAM application.
This is a Cummins injector for a EEA application (European Engine Alliance) used f.e. in Iveco trucks. I was not aware of the fact that this injector is still in production in that design stage. I thought Bosch has replaced it long ago.
The EEA application is a 1400bar application, so the injector has different adjustments (spring forces for example) and for that reason it should not be used in a Ram application running at 1600bar as this will shorten their lifetime.

Additionally it is the oldest design you can get (like it was when they went into series production in 2003). It has no design improvements for a higher lifetime.
(no design updates, no wear coatings)

I also have to say that I am a little wondering about the position of the numbers as that is not looking like the Bosch standard in 2018. As it should have the running number below the manufacturing date.
Also there is no 3-digit code for the plant where it was built.
Can you send a couple more pictures? Are there any other numbers on the outside of the injector?

 

[Ozymandias]

New old stock..... and even the wrong one for this application...

Martin it is awesome to have you here around in that Forum!!

 

[LWells]

Can you send a couple more pictures? Are there any other numbers on the outside of the injector?

Yes - will do that tomorrow eve when I return.

 

[cerberusiam]

Ahhh, now I remember, another set of these EEA injectors surfacing thru the Bosch distribution network. Looks like someone is cleaning out old stock in warehouses in the distribution chain and dumping these on the market. This is the second fairly well known distributor to get the same injector and the same story, ostensibly from the suppliers, that it is a new injector.

 

[sojoe]

With all this deception and shady sellers, I am glad I went with NEW BBI 0..5`s from Thoroughbred diesel.
Martin answered my questions quickly and Thoroughbred delivered.

 

[CVR222NV]

With all this deception and shady sellers, I am glad I went with NEW BBI 0..5`s from Thoroughbred diesel.
Martin answered my questions quickly and Thoroughbred delivered.

I could not agree more! These threads make me very uneasy. Thankful TDR exposes all this great information.

 

[LWells]

Here are the pictures. On the solenoid only the 007 number is consistent across all 6 injectors, so I have included pics of all 6. The 007 number was actually covered over by black marker - I had to wipe that off to expose. On the bodies there are four numbers/codes. Three are consistent across all six - the two line code on the barrel, the code on the mounting flange - same side as two line code, and the code on the barrel partially below the mounting flange - it's hard to read in the pics but is "F-2829". The final code is on the other side of the flange and is not consistent. Note also the made in Basil mark - if my Portuguese is correct.

When I spoke with Injectors Direct the only number they thought mattered was that 007 code, and that's what they went off to declare these were correct new injectors.

Martin - What you said sounds very bad.

 

[Martin_BBI]

Ahhh, now I remember, another set of these EEA injectors surfacing thru the Bosch distribution network. Looks like someone is cleaning out old stock in warehouses in the distribution chain and dumping these on the market. This is the second fairly well known distributor to get the same injector and the same story, ostensibly from the suppliers, that it is a new injector.

Yes that was very similiar in that DAP thread in Cumminsforum. The difference is that the injector in CF was I think 15+ years old and this one from Injectors Direct has a very actual production date. My best guess is that those 007 injectors are a lot cheaper than MY03 injectors and they also have a 143 degree spray angle and the same nozzle flow, so the customers will not recognize that there is something wrong after installing them.

Here are the pictures. On the solenoid only the 007 number is consistent across all 6 injectors, so I have included pics of all 6. The 007 number was actually covered over by black marker - I had to wipe that off to expose. On the bodies there are four numbers/codes. Three are consistent across all six - the two line code on the barrel, the code on the mounting flange - same side as two line code, and the code on the barrel partially below the mounting flange - it's hard to read in the pics but is "F-2829". The final code is on the other side of the flange and is not consistent. Note also the made in Basil mark - if my Portuguese is correct.

When I spoke with Injectors Direct the only number they thought mattered was that 007 code, and that's what they went off to declare these were correct new injectors.

Martin - What you said sounds very bad.

Thanks for all those pictures, seems like Curritiba plant in Brazil has a different way putting the numbers on those 007 injectors. The fact that you got them with the number covered with a black marker shows that they want to hide something.
Good thing is that they are definitly build by Bosch and it is not a chinese copy, which I was not sure about when I only saw the single picture of the magnet.
But it is still a 007 injector for a different application with less rail pressure with an old internal design.
Sorry, if I were you I would not use them.
To the codes you found.... I am not aware of the numbers on the hold down.
The F-2829 is the shortened Bosch part number of the injector body, which is F00RJ02829 in full length.

 

[cerberusiam]

Do you suppose the EEA injectors are still being produced because they shipped so many Iveco vehicles into South America, maybe Africa also, and they are still there running? Bosch has have to keep a production run of them going to service that huge base of vehicles?

 

[LWells]

"To the codes you found.... I am not aware of the numbers on the hold down.
The F-2829 is the shortened Bosch part number of the injector body, which is F00RJ02829 in full length."[/QUOTE]

That two line number (0445...) above the made in Brazil didn't mean anything to you either?

Thanks for the unfortunately mostly bad news Martin. I presume from Injectors Direct standpoint they are selling a genuine part that someone at Cummins or Bosch has blessed for this application - just not actually the exact replacement (which given that one exists is really upsetting). I know TC has railed about this previously, but are Bosch's supply chain agreements so convoluted that it's really this hard to just get a straightforward direct replacement part?

 

[eastmentCTD600]

I can't speak about supporting increased power levels. But stock, the factory in tank lift pump has absolutely no issue supplying fuel through the factory and aux filters. I've been running that way for hundreds of thousands of miles without issues.

Jgillot,
What filter mount, filter, & filter location you’re using before the CP3? I have new injectors on the way and would like to add better filtration before I install them. I too have the in-tank pump on my 04.5. I don’t have an additional $800 to drop on a FASS system yet. I do utilize the 5 micron rated filters from Baldwin in the factory filter housing.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Regcabguy]

Martin needs to decipher this. He will know exactly what that is.

That number , 007, is familiar from somewhere but do not remember what and where.

James Bond.

 

[jgillott]

Jgillot,
What filter mount, filter, & filter location you’re using before the CP3? I have new injectors on the way and would like to add better filtration before I install them. I too have the in-tank pump on my 04.5. I don’t have an additional $800 to drop on a FASS system yet. I do utilize the 5 micron rated filters from Baldwin in the factory filter housing.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I am using a mount system from Glacier Diesel. They have a variety of mounting options available depending on your specific needs.

https://www.glacierdieselpower.com/...-2003-thru-2007-dodge-ram-filter-systems.html

Here's the one on my '07.

 

[Martin_BBI]

Do you suppose the EEA injectors are still being produced because they shipped so many Iveco vehicles into South America, maybe Africa also, and they are still there running? Bosch has have to keep a production run of them going to service that huge base of vehicles?

I am not sure why they are still producing that 007 injector. Especially as there is a newer design of that injector which is 0445120212 that should have replaced the 007 from what I know.
But I now found out that the customer order number is on the magnet retaining nut. So it seems like that injector is still in production for a Case IH tractor.

That two line number (0445...) above the made in Brazil didn't mean anything to you either?

Thanks for the unfortunately mostly bad news Martin. I presume from Injectors Direct standpoint they are selling a genuine part that someone at Cummins or Bosch has blessed for this application - just not actually the exact replacement (which given that one exists is really upsetting). I know TC has railed about this previously, but are Bosch's supply chain agreements so convoluted that it's really this hard to just get a straightforward direct replacement part?

To the numbers on the magnet retaining nut
The Number 0445120007 is the full part number of the injector
685 is the 3-digit plant code for Curritiba
The number 2830957 is the part number from CASE IH

But it does not really matter as you definitely got the wrong injector for your application. I am sure Bosch did not bless that injector to be used in a Dodge RAM as you really should not do that.
I do not want to make any assumtions why you got those injectors but my best guess is, it has to do with its price.