Getrag and HP...

[RHancock]

I have a questions for those of you running a Getrag and some Mods. . I just rebuilt mine and it is tons better. . shifts nice and no real problems except... when I load it real hard in 4th at higher rpm. . it makes the growl it used to at lower rpm. little different tone but the same sort of growl... Now I am only in the low 300hp range and it revs fast even in 4th so it is only for a short period but it is bothering me . . Now it only does it in 4th not 5th or 3rd... Before I pull this thing down and check the end play again. .



Anyone have any comments or ideas????





BTW..... I have stock turbo, 16cm housing, POD's, timing advanced as far as I can get it and a turned up stock pump. . 35 lbs of boost. .

 

[1stgen4evr]

On the getrag

Noise from the Getrag can be originating at the center of the clutch where the spring balast absorbs the momentary thrust of each ignition pulse. This noise can be made to occur in third fourth and OD. If this is what you are hearing, then you probably don't (yet) have a problem in the Getrag. If the way you operate the truck causes this to happen much, you will rapidly degrade the condition of the transmission.



AND, the Getrag is not rated to handle more than stock HP for any extended period. Additionally your fwd application is even harder on the Getrag.



Start right away to saving for a complete upgrade on the transmission and drive train if you continue to boost HP and use that potential. Sell the Getrag while it is still sound. After it eats itself, it is of little value.



James

 

[RHancock]

thanks never thought of that... ..... I have already started looking at other trans options,, Right now Looks like a Spicer 3053a with a rube adapter to the np205 will fit without having to change much (It is only 1/2 inch longer). . and a lot stronger and cheeper than a nv4500...

 

[Stomp]

Well I just dynoed 680hp1440tq and mine seams to be holding up just fine. I have had over 400hp for over two years now with no ill effects. Over 500hp for 6+ months. This is not the original trans I put this one in about 4 years ago. The original went out due to lack of oil. Didn't know know about the extra quart and a half. Plans are to take it out and put a auto in sometime soon, but the darn thing wont die.



Stomp

 

[therabbittree]

can you elaborate on the spicer transmission?. . does it have od?. . 5 speed or 4 or 6 etc. . and I've never heard of a rube adapter... . I ask as I have a torqueflite and I want a standard transmission with over drive. . I've thought of swapping to a truck transmission and using a divorced transfer case etc. . I even thought of swapping in a 6v53 with jakes or a 6v92 I have ha. . probably be better if I stick with the cummins for now. .

Thanks

Deo

 

[1stgen4evr]

rube

"Rube" referrs to the work of an engineer (Rube Goldberg) who was also a satirical cartoonist who drew up make believe plans for various 'inventions' which had miriad extra useless links to cause something to happen. You may have seen some of this on TV where young engineers are challanged to do some process with as many steps as they can think of to do a basicly simple task. The term has caught on as euphemism for inventive genius installing some apparatus where the process is made to work in spite of the lack of refined engineering technique. Many first genners are somewhat adept at doing this sort of thing. You may have done some of this yourself. If not, I encourage you to try something that is impossible with 'ready made' components. You will surely wind up with a little rube in the works.



James

 

[therabbittree]

Oh I see, I guess I am WELL versed in "RUBE" haha

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some of my "Rube'd" creations from the past haha

... again more info please about the spicer trans swap.

Thanks

Deo

\x/ Hillfolk!

 

[JLEONARD]

Deo,

Yes you are a Rube Goldberg disciple. I have seen your work and I can vouch for you. Take that as a compliment as that is my intent.

Rube is one of my heros.

Jay

 

[1stgen4evr]

rube

This man is a true brother. NOW, go back and clean it all up and close a stock hood on everything so you have a sleeper. That may require installing the air cleaner inside the cab. Like Jay, I applaude your work.



I have sought comments on alternative transmissions and have not gotten too much result. I can tell you that there is a spicer transmission that in the old models was a rto 610. I think it is now designated a 2610. It is a twin countershaft 10 speed OD unit that will hold the torque of a 6-71 detroit. It has a two inch input shaft. The cummins can be fitted with the correct adapter, flywheel and clutch to couple with the transmission. The rear u-joint is more than double the size of our application so a bit more rube there and away you go. This is however an old design and the newer designs are cleaner and lighter and more desirable for our trucks.



James

 

[RHancock]

Take a day off and look where you guys go with the Rube Adapter ...



Actually there is a guy Fresno/Clovis who runs a company called Rube Adapter. He makes all sorts of adapters for trans and transfer cases. . very good quality stuff. He just finished one for a Spicer 3053a to a np205. . Talked to him about the bigger input on the diesel np205's and he didn't see a problem he would just have to machine the coupler different. .



The Spicer 3053A is a 5 speed overdrive trans. It comes in M35a military 2 1/2 ton trucks with a multifuel motors. Very strong and buletproof and alot of them out there. . I has 1" 1/2 10 spline input and output shafts. Uses a SAE #3 belhousing. So I have to procure a cummins #3 Flywheel housing. The M35a also uses a 13" clutch so that shouldn't be an issue. . The trains is about the same length as a NV4500 so length isn't a problem. the only issue I see is adapting the Clutch slave cylinder to make the clutch operate properly...





Hey Stomp does your Getrag make any noise when you load it hard ?? If you have a way of asking KTA can you ask him the same question... . This one did before but only if you loaded it down at too low an RPM. .



As info..... I haven't had any issues with the Getrag 150k+ miles and worked great, I pulled it down for piece of mind more than anything. . Everything looked good just normal wear did have some end play in the main shaft (. 020) but other than that it looked great. . the bearings weren't that expensive so I changed them and reshimed everyting with about . 005 preload. didn't want to do more as that pocket bearing is small... . I always over fill and run synthetic. .



Any other advice from the GPS... ...



Any other ideas ...

 

[mysteryman]

Rube Adapter. contact info

What is his contact info? I would like to talk to him????

Take a day off and look where you guys go with the Rube Adapter ...



Actually there is a guy Fresno/Clovis who runs a company called Rube Adapter. He makes all sorts of adapters for trans and transfer cases. . very good quality stuff. He just finished one for a Spicer 3053a to a np205. . Talked to him about the bigger input on the diesel np205's and he didn't see a problem he would just have to machine the coupler different. .



The Spicer 3053A is a 5 speed overdrive trans. It comes in M35a military 2 1/2 ton trucks with a multifuel motors. Very strong and buletproof and alot of them out there. . I has 1" 1/2 10 spline input and output shafts. Uses a SAE #3 belhousing. So I have to procure a cummins #3 Flywheel housing. The M35a also uses a 13" clutch so that shouldn't be an issue. . The trains is about the same length as a NV4500 so length isn't a problem. the only issue I see is adapting the Clutch slave cylinder to make the clutch operate properly...





Hey Stomp does your Getrag make any noise when you load it hard ?? If you have a way of asking KTA can you ask him the same question... . This one did before but only if you loaded it down at too low an RPM. .



As info..... I haven't had any issues with the Getrag 150k+ miles and worked great, I pulled it down for piece of mind more than anything. . Everything looked good just normal wear did have some end play in the main shaft (. 020) but other than that it looked great. . the bearings weren't that expensive so I changed them and reshimed everyting with about . 005 preload. didn't want to do more as that pocket bearing is small... . I always over fill and run synthetic. .



Any other advice from the GPS... ...



Any other ideas ...

 

[therabbittree]

sounds nice. . mummn what is the ratio of the 5th gear?. . is syncronized or not?. . how much do they go for?. . there are two old mlitarty trucks at muy local junk yard. . i may have to see what transmission is in them. . any #s on the transmission to tell it from others?... does Mr. Rube make adapters fro a truck transmission like a 9 speed or 8ll or 10 13 etc. . to a np205?. . i that would be awesome. . i ahve a sae cummins adapter from a generator. . how do i tell if its a 1, 2, or 3?



thanks

Deo



ps jay i take that as a compliment. ha see you next week. .

 

[CSchafer]

Just had the cover off my trans and found it has recently been rebuilt. even with the new clutch it make noise under hard accleration mainly in 4th but a little in third and a decent amount of noise in OD. I was hoping (praying) that this is a normal thing because I am no where near done in the HP department and don't really want to mess with a trans. I would love to hear if stomps truck makes the same noise.

 

[1stgen4evr]

Rube

Check this out.



http://www.rube-goldberg.com/html/gallery.htm



James

 

[RHancock]

ok here we go...



the 3053a came in all 2 1/2 tons with the multifuel motor made after 1969... now since there was a rebuild program with the military for many years on these trucks an older one may have been updated. . there should be a tag on the side. . Just look for one with 5th upper right and 4th lower right... on the shift pattern



Here is a link to the ratios for the 3053 and others... take a look at the 3053b's very similar ratios to the Getrag...



http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/transmission.htm



All gears are syncronized... .



Good Used about 400$. . rebuilt about 800$ from Boyce Equipment. . Really easy to find... lots of guys cutting the trucks up for the axles. .



# for Rube Adapter 559/299-5736... it has been a month of so since I talked to him make sure you mention which imput shaft in your np205 because ours is an oddball..... he said pricing will be about 500$... for the adapter and coupler... and it has a lifetime warranty...



As for the SAE # 3 belhousing it would be 16 7/8 if you measure from the bolt centers. . (I have been told the proper term for this part is flywheel cover---) It is used on alot of 4bt equipment and should be easy to find. . If someone has an extra I am still looking for one cheep... (as I am cheep... )



I may have a line on some used military transmissions that need rebuild. For next to nothing. . If I am able to get them what ever I dont use you guys are welcome to...





I would love to do this swap in a 2wd truck first to see how it works... before I spend the time and money to do a 4x4...

 

[f.boyle]

I am down!!!!!! I'll try it!!! I always wanted a 10 spd in it.

Chainsaw

 

[MMiller]

I understand that the noise in 4th is just the other gears that do not have load on them as 4th uses no gear meshes, right? Its just the slack between them getting some resonance from the engine right?



Michael

 

[mysteryman]

the swap

Doing a 2wd first would be a good idea ! I recall back when we were in the design stages of the first trucks . One of the problems we had was getting the belhousing to fit under the firewall... We wanted to use an SAE belhousing to save money on production... . The SAE belhousings come straight out from the back of the engine... . If you look at the Getrag/Dodge bell you will notice that it slopes down directly after the engine..... If you cut the firewall/floor to clear the SAE bell you will end up cutting into your heater/AC ducts.....

We decided that it would be cheaper to make a new bell rather than retool the cab and design a new heater/ac unit.....

The trans you plan on using is a great idea ! I will be quite interested in hearing how you get it to fit in the truck!

ok here we go...



the 3053a came in all 2 1/2 tons with the multifuel motor made after 1969... now since there was a rebuild program with the military for many years on these trucks an older one may have been updated. . there should be a tag on the side. . Just look for one with 5th upper right and 4th lower right... on the shift pattern



Here is a link to the ratios for the 3053 and others... take a look at the 3053b's very similar ratios to the Getrag...



http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/transmission.htm



All gears are syncronized... .



Good Used about 400$. . rebuilt about 800$ from Boyce Equipment. . Really easy to find... lots of guys cutting the trucks up for the axles. .



# for Rube Adapter 559/299-5736... it has been a month of so since I talked to him make sure you mention which imput shaft in your np205 because ours is an oddball..... he said pricing will be about 500$... for the adapter and coupler... and it has a lifetime warranty...



As for the SAE # 3 belhousing it would be 16 7/8 if you measure from the bolt centers. . (I have been told the proper term for this part is flywheel cover---) It is used on alot of 4bt equipment and should be easy to find. . If someone has an extra I am still looking for one cheep... (as I am cheep... )



I may have a line on some used military transmissions that need rebuild. For next to nothing. . If I am able to get them what ever I dont use you guys are welcome to...





I would love to do this swap in a 2wd truck first to see how it works... before I spend the time and money to do a 4x4...

 

[RHancock]

I have looked at that ... I was planning a body lift, a big hammer and cutting the floor and using the removable floor section out of an earlier truck with some modification... ... and trying to make that work... but you bring up a really good point...



and your comments really got me thinking there may be a better way... (using a smaller hammer and less butchering... )



... I have seen several of these transmisions used in M715's and other applications with a 4bt or chevy motor. The chevy guys use a belhousing out of a c50 or c60 with a big block that slopes like the stock Getrag belhousing but adapting it to the cummins would probibly be more work that it is worth... but the belhousing is interesting in that it bolts into the front of the trans not the other way arround where the bolts go into the belhousing like the stock getrag.



Depending on input shaft length ... (would have to pull the Getrag to find out) What about Using the stock belhousing and a nice adaper plate or enlarge the locating center and modify the stock belhousing to bolt the belhousing to the the 3053a ...



Any one have a stock belhousing laying arround they want to get rid of ??? ... I need one to cut, weld on and see if I can make this work...

 

[MMiller]

Theres a getrag bell housing in the classifieds for $40 I think. Engine and drive train parts.



Michael